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KCKC FM - Large Playlist Success ?

I think a lot of it too relates to SXM essentially abandoning music research as a cost saving. They've taken on the Pandora mindset where; 'we'll flood the zone with so much content on so many ways, there's no way someone can't find what they like'. The problem is with that mindset; listeners don't want to 'punch around' looking for a consistent sound that they expect. Just like having grown up with terrestrial radio, listeners are conditioned to listening through ads much more than an errant WTF?- song. Dropping a turd in the middle of a good set of known music, is sure to illicit moving on to something else.
Actually, when they were separate entities, XM was far "deeper" than Sirius, largely because Lee Abrams was in charge and, I guess, trying to make up for what he'd done to free-form radio -- obliterate it -- with his AOR Superstars format. But Abrams had some really wacky ideas, including using announcers with heavy foreign accents for IDs and liners just because he thought their accents were cool. I was sad to see some songs depart the playlists of my favorite channels after he left, but I'm something of a music geek at heart, albeit one who has grasped the psychology and reality that drive commercial radio's tight playlists.

As for music research, I listen to SXM's contemporary country channel, The Highway, fairly often, and get regular surveys to respond to. These surveys are done in much the way song testing is done by "real" radio. You are fed brief snatches of a few dozen songs -- with no indication of artist or title -- and are asked to rate them as love/like/OK/dislike/hate as well as tired of/somewhat tired of/not tired of. They're all songs that are already being played on the channel, some for months, others for only a week or two. I'm not sure how much impact these polls have on the playlist, especially since The Highway has long had an agenda of breaking new acts before mainstream country radio starts playing them, but at least some form of research is being done.
 
I was sad to see some songs depart the playlists of my favorite channels after he left, but I'm something of a music geek at heart, albeit one who has grasped the psychology and reality that drive commercial radio's tight playlists.
Years ago very early in my career, I divorced the connection between music on radio as a business, verses my personal music tastes. Personally I can't stand country music, yet I've intentionally programmed two of my owned-stations to country because there was a business case for it. Frankly, if farting sounds were popular and advertisers wanted to reach people who loved listening to fart sounds, I'd be pleased to program a station with it.
 
It might work better to flip to a classic hits station. A lot of their music is definitely tilted in that direction and there's a large demand for it in KC.

I was actually talking with a longtime consultant about this within the last couple weeks. Going after an existing classic hits station is a terrible idea and has been even going back to the oldies format. Brand loyalty to classic hits stations is really hard to break, and prying enough listeners to be sustainable from even a mediocre competitor takes more time than most operators are willing to invest.

Granted, this information is about 30 years old, but we haven't had many classic hits battles since, probably because people learned that lesson a long time ago. When you look at the oldies battles of the early 90's (KLUV/KODZ in Dallas, KRTH/KODJ in Los Angeles, WMXJ/WAXY in Miami, KLOU/KRJY in St. Louis), the tighter and better programmed upstart lost, and usually lost badly, to the mediocre longtime station. About the only times the established oldies stations lost were when they had unusually large playlists full of clunkers most people got sick of decades earlier (KCBQ-FM in San Diego, KOOL-FM in Phoenix, and KYA in San Francisco) or signal issues (WXTR in Washington DC, though I believe it also suffered from the large playlist problem). Unless Steel City is willing to hunker down and lose for several years, it has no chance of taking down 94.9 KCMO, even if it runs a better station. Given that Steel City just went through a bankruptcy and that it's programming KCKC with too large of a playlist, I tend to think it wouldn't stand a chance against 94.9 KCMO.

Adams, by the way, owned KCBQ-FM and KOOL-FM when they got decimated by upstarts (KOOL got bought and was resurrected from the dead by new owners). It also flipped KISS-FM 99.5 in San Antonio to oldies in 1990 and used a large playlist similar to what it was using in San Diego and Phoenix. I even seem to remember it airing stabs at its main competitor, "Magic 105 only plays 475 songs. We play 60% more!" That effort was a total disaster! A little over a year later, Magic 105 had taken over KISS AM/FM in an LMA and took the FM back to rock. Other than that Cumulus can't add more stations in KC, I'd expect a similar result if KC 102.1 went classic hits.
 
I was actually talking with a longtime consultant about this within the last couple weeks. Going after an existing classic hits station is a terrible idea and has been even going back to the oldies format. Brand loyalty to classic hits stations is really hard to break, and prying enough listeners to be sustainable from even a mediocre competitor takes more time than most operators are willing to invest.

Granted, this information is about 30 years old, but we haven't had many classic hits battles since, probably because people learned that lesson a long time ago. When you look at the oldies battles of the early 90's (KLUV/KODZ in Dallas, KRTH/KODJ in Los Angeles, WMXJ/WAXY in Miami, KLOU/KRJY in St. Louis), the tighter and better programmed upstart lost, and usually lost badly, to the mediocre longtime station. About the only times the established oldies stations lost were when they had unusually large playlists full of clunkers most people got sick of decades earlier (KCBQ-FM in San Diego, KOOL-FM in Phoenix, and KYA in San Francisco) or signal issues (WXTR in Washington DC, though I believe it also suffered from the large playlist problem). Unless Steel City is willing to hunker down and lose for several years, it has no chance of taking down 94.9 KCMO, even if it runs a better station. Given that Steel City just went through a bankruptcy and that it's programming KCKC with too large of a playlist, I tend to think it wouldn't stand a chance against 94.9 KCMO.

Adams, by the way, owned KCBQ-FM and KOOL-FM when they got decimated by upstarts (KOOL got bought and was resurrected from the dead by new owners). It also flipped KISS-FM 99.5 in San Antonio to oldies in 1990 and used a large playlist similar to what it was using in San Diego and Phoenix. I even seem to remember it airing stabs at its main competitor, "Magic 105 only plays 475 songs. We play 60% more!" That effort was a total disaster! A little over a year later, Magic 105 had taken over KISS AM/FM in an LMA and took the FM back to rock. Other than that Cumulus can't add more stations in KC, I'd expect a similar result if KC 102.1 went classic hits.
The thing is though, kckc and KCMO have a lot of overlap. You could probably shave off something like stay by the kid laroi and a lot of listeners wouldn't know the difference, but it would be a bigger change to start focusing on that type of music.
 
The thing is though, kckc and KCMO have a lot of overlap. You could probably shave off something like stay by the kid laroi and a lot of listeners wouldn't know the difference, but it would be a bigger change to start focusing on that type of music.

Overlap doesn't matter as long as there are also unique elements, and there are. Some older listeners want currents in their mix.
It's about the total package, not the individual songs. The fact is there aren't' that many good consensus songs. At any one time, there may only be ten or twelve. So there will be overlap, and nobody pays attention. They just grab on to who is playing their favorite song. Every restaurant I go to has a lot of familiar stuff on the menu. I went to an German place the other day, and they had pizza on the menu. Huh? OK, it was on the kid's menu. But still, you see overlap wherever you go. It doesn't matter. People like what they like, and it's radio's job to give it to them.
 
Overlap doesn't matter as long as there are also unique elements, and there are. Some older listeners want currents in their mix.
It's about the total package, not the individual songs. The fact is there aren't' that many good consensus songs. At any one time, there may only be ten or twelve. So there will be overlap, and nobody pays attention. They just grab on to who is playing their favorite song. Every restaurant I go to has a lot of familiar stuff on the menu. I went to an German place the other day, and they had pizza on the menu. Huh? OK, it was on the kid's menu. But still, you see overlap wherever you go. It doesn't matter. People like what they like, and it's radio's job to give it to them.
Yeah, but in this case the station already is primarily a classic hits or adult hits station with a few ac currents thrown in. The currents are kind of like the pizza at the German place.... I'd say I'd you were to narrow the menu, they'd be the first to go since the majority of the playlist is from 78-91.
 
Yeah, but in this case the station already is primarily a classic hits or adult hits station with a few ac currents thrown in.
Not if it's considered a Hot AC station.
The currents are kind of like the pizza at the German place.... I'd say I'd you were to narrow the menu, they'd be the first to go since the majority of the playlist is from 78-91.
I've heard Hot AC stations mix in classics, whether it's urban leaning or more classic hits depending on the market. The audience for Hot AC is typically 25-54F, but there could be 25-54 females in rural areas that might necessitate some country crossover in a Hot AC format, verses in a more urban area that might need a more urban lean.
I would agree that 70's is a little too old, and throwing a turd like Louie Louie would be a huge tune-out.
 
Not if it's considered a Hot AC station.

I've heard Hot AC stations mix in classics, whether it's urban leaning or more classic hits depending on the market. The audience for Hot AC is typically 25-54F, but there could be 25-54 females in rural areas that might necessitate some country crossover in a Hot AC format, verses in a more urban area that might need a more urban lean.
I would agree that 70's is a little too old, and throwing a turd like Louie Louie would be a huge tune-out.
Oh.... we're talking about kckc (which registers main ac) not KZPT which is a hot ac .
 
I'd say I'd you were to narrow the menu, they'd be the first to go since the majority of the playlist is from 78-91.

As I said, there are some people who occasionally like currents with their classic hits. For them, there's this station.

People like what people like, and they don't all fit into neat categories.

I wonder if this particular station has listeners outside the 54+ range?

I'm sure there are, as there are likely listeners under 18.
 
As I said, there are some people who occasionally like currents with their classic hits. For them, there's this station.

People like what people like, and they don't all fit into neat categories.



I'm sure there are, as there are likely listeners under 18.
Listeners under 18 for this particular station? They must have eclectic tastes for their age.
 
I wonder what would happen if they tweaked their playlist to be more about '90s/00s music? That might target the demo a bit better, and people might remember any more obscure song they would select.
 
I wonder what would happen if they tweaked their playlist to be more about '90s/00s music?

WSHE in Chicago is apparently trying that approach as of this morning. I wish them well, but they’ll have their work cut out for them. I'll grant you the research I saw is about 15 years old now, but it only found about 100 songs from the entire decade of the 90’s to test well. One or two years from that decade didn’t yield a single playable song. It’s possible that some of that music has aged better with time. After all, 80’s centric playlists tended to perform really poorly until about 15 years ago while that’s every classic hits station today, and classic hits stations are adding more 90’s and 00’s tunes, albeit cautiously. As much as 80’s music was criticized 20 years ago, it always tested better than 90’s tracks.

That might target the demo a bit better, and people might remember any more obscure song they would select.

As CTListener mentioned, obscure music is the kiss of death. It’s obscure because no one really liked it when it was new. Do you really want to hear Vanessa Carlton's acquaintance rape themed “White Houses“ ever again? I certainly don’t, and, judging from how it performed in 2004, most everyone was sick of it by the end of the year. Really, nobody liked it when it was new, but it got spins because the rest of the product that year was also terrible. I remember. I was playing it on CHR and was even playing it some weekends on a CHR in your area (though voicetracked from a sister station three hours away). I still can't hear Ashlee Simpson's “Pieces of Me” without seeing her dancing like a scarecrow on SNL, but that passed for good music that year, too.
 
WSHE in Chicago is apparently trying that approach as of this morning. I wish them well, but they’ll have their work cut out for them. I'll grant you the research I saw is about 15 years old now, but it only found about 100 songs from the entire decade of the 90’s to test well. One or two years from that decade didn’t yield a single playable song. It’s possible that some of that music has aged better with time. After all, 80’s centric playlists tended to perform really poorly until about 15 years ago while that’s every classic hits station today, and classic hits stations are adding more 90’s and 00’s tunes, albeit cautiously. As much as 80’s music was criticized 20 years ago, it always tested better than 90’s tracks.



As CTListener mentioned, obscure music is the kiss of death. It’s obscure because no one really liked it when it was new. Do you really want to hear Vanessa Carlton's acquaintance rape themed “White Houses“ ever again? I certainly don’t, and, judging from how it performed in 2004, most everyone was sick of it by the end of the year. Really, nobody liked it when it was new, but it got spins because the rest of the product that year was also terrible. I remember. I was playing it on CHR and was even playing it some weekends on a CHR in your area (though voicetracked from a sister station three hours away). I still can't hear Ashlee Simpson's “Pieces of Me” without seeing her dancing like a scarecrow on SNL, but that passed for good music that year, too
That was a weird time for pop music. It was the height of purity culture, pop/rock ballads we're in, and rap was super noisy. Yes, come to think of it, there probably are songs from the that are best forgotten.
 
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I wonder if this particular station has listeners outside the 54+ range?
On a multi-book average, they are 9th in 12-17, 5th in 18-24, and 14th in 35-64. On average, they are 16th in 12+.

Remember, the PPM measures "hearing" and not "listening".
 
I wonder what would happen if they tweaked their playlist to be more about '90s/00s music? That might target the demo a bit better, and people might remember any more obscure song they would select.
When it comes to any library cuts in a format, they have to be songs that trigger an emotion for listeners. "I heard that back in the day" is not a criteria. "Ah, that's the song they played on our first date" is a criteria. Songs have to be meaningful in some way.
 
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