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WLW signal at night

schmave

schmave

WLW's signal at night into much of the Columbus area the past few weeks has noticeably deteriorated. I hear considerable phasing in areas where previously, the signal was as solid at night with no cancellation as it is during the day. Normally, you have to be well north and east of metro Columbus to start hearing the groundwave and skywave collide.
Is there some kind of work being done at the transmitter that is hampering the signal? Maybe another reason? I don't expect that anyone in greater Cincinnati or even Dayton would notice a decrease in signal, but just wondering why this has been going on recently. I remember reading years ago that WLW's tower was constructed in such a way as to minimize the cancellation into areas such as Columbus and Indianapolis.
 
A shopping center is being built around the tower. I do not know if any significant development have occurred in the last weeks, but that would be my first guess as to a culprit.
 
schmave said:
WLW's signal at night into much of the Columbus area the past few weeks has noticeably deteriorated. I hear considerable phasing in areas where previously, the signal was as solid at night with no cancellation as it is during the day. Normally, you have to be well north and east of metro Columbus to start hearing the groundwave and skywave collide.
Is there some kind of work being done at the transmitter that is hampering the signal? Maybe another reason? I don't expect that anyone in greater Cincinnati or even Dayton would notice a decrease in signal, but just wondering why this has been going on recently. I remember reading years ago that WLW's tower was constructed in such a way as to minimize the cancellation into areas such as Columbus and Indianapolis.
Click to expand...
Yes, they are doing construction all around the WLW tower, including removing ground radials. They may be using a backup tower.
www.wvxu.org

Work Starts On $30 Million Development Under Iconic WLW-AM Tower

The big ones are gone. The huge trees which lined the driveway to WLW-AM's tower and transmitter were removed this week to make way for a $30 million…
www.wvxu.org www.wvxu.org
 
Thanks much. I figured it might be a rare atmospheric thing when I heard a ton of phasing one night last week, but once it became a regular thing I knew it had to be something else. Still listenable, just noticeably weaker. That also would explain some increased interference during the day too.
Anyone have any idea how long this might last?
 
schmave said:
Thanks much. I figured it might be a rare atmospheric thing when I heard a ton of phasing one night last week, but once it became a regular thing I knew it had to be something else. Still listenable, just noticeably weaker. That also would explain some increased interference during the day too.
Anyone have any idea how long this might last?
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I think WLW's signal will be permanently hampered, especially with the ground radial situation. I don't know to what extent a backup tower is in use.
 
Shame if so. If the past is any indication, that will be more noticeable during the summer and less so during the winter when the cancellation zone seems to be a little farther out. Guessing the skywave will not be impacted, but I'm not engineer either.
 
I think gr8 is correct. With some of the ground radials being removed thanks to construction of yet more strip malls and development around the WLW tower, the signal degradation will most likely be permanent. This of course won’t impact local ratings and billing, but for me it’s a sad reminder of AM’s growing irrelevance.
 
keys2 said:
I think gr8 is correct. With some of the ground radials being removed thanks to construction of yet more strip malls and development around the WLW tower, the signal degradation will most likely be permanent. This of course won’t impact local ratings and billing, but for me it’s a sad reminder of AM’s growing irrelevance.
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It depends on how well they design the addition of commercial buildings on the site. A station I programmed in LA build a warehouse complex around its towers, and they put the ground system on the roofs and over the parking lots in a counterpoise system that was as good as a buried ground.

There was no degradation of the signal. KFI has allowed commercial buildings to be put up at their site, with good ground system design, too. No degradation.
 
DavidEduardo said:
It depends on how well they design the addition of commercial buildings on the site. A station I programmed in LA build a warehouse complex around its towers, and they put the ground system on the roofs and over the parking lots in a counterpoise system that was as good as a buried ground.

There was no degradation of the signal. KFI has allowed commercial buildings to be put up at their site, with good ground system design, too. No degradation.
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When visiting northern New Mexico, I listened to Phil Hendrie on KFI. They had a whopping signal! (I listened the night before their tower came down. The next night I could barely hear them. I didn't know the reason until I got back home and read about it.)
 
frankberry said:
When visiting northern New Mexico, I listened to Phil Hendrie on KFI. They had a whopping signal! (I listened the night before their tower came down. The next night I could barely hear them. I didn't know the reason until I got back home and read about it.)
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And while they were on a short stick, at night when I drove every Friday evening from LA to "The Desert" KFI would have skywave / groundwave cancellation as close by as Redlands, CA.
 
DavidEduardo said:
And while they were on a short stick, at night when I drove every Friday evening from LA to "The Desert" KFI would have skywave / groundwave cancellation as close by as Redlands, CA.
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When I was the Director of Engineering for WGTO, I had a second home in St. Petersburg, about 70 miles from the WGTO towers.
At that distance, due to the short towers (69 degrees), I was getting a little skywave/groundwave cancellation. I could still listen to the station but it was obvious that there was some mixing.
 
DavidEduardo said:
It depends on how well they design the addition of commercial buildings on the site. A station I programmed in LA build a warehouse complex around its towers, and they put the ground system on the roofs and over the parking lots in a counterpoise system that was as good as a buried ground.

There was no degradation of the signal. KFI has allowed commercial buildings to be put up at their site, with good ground system design, too. No degradation.
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From what I read here locally I don’t think WLW plans to do that. Their engineering staff said the signal would in fact be degraded. As schmave said, the cancellation zone will likely shift in some since the ground wave is being impacted.
 
I was wondering that too, especially the areas in north central Kentucky. I have been told that WLW suffers from quite a bit of phasing by the time you hit Lexington and Louisville under normal circumstances. I will be on the southwest side of Columbus tonight and am curious to hear whether the signal is noticeably better there than here.
 
gr8oldies said:
One might wonder if the cancellation zone might impact some of the more distant (from Mason) parts of the actual market.
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The three KY counties in the metro that are not contiguous with the Ohio border, Grant, Gallatin and Pendleton, are only about 50,000 persons out of about 2.25 million in the market. Almost all the KY part of the metro population is right along the river in Kenton, Campbell and Boone counties.
 
That's all well and good, but I am sure someone in those counties no matter how many people live there would notice if such an historically strong signal is suddenly weaker.
 
gr8oldies said:
Just takes one person in one of those counties to have a PPM.
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A station like that cumes about 15% of the metered persons... so one or two won't make any difference. And the groundwave and skywave cancellation issue is not going to be significant in ratings as it happens at night when radio listening is low.

Since the construction is happening in the summer, and daylight lasts until well into the evening daypart, I doubt it will have any effect at all.
 
I can remember in the mid 70s listening to that noon gabfest [think like Kelly & {gag} Ryan] in NE Ohio. Came in fairly well for daytime. Nowadays, in daytime, non-existent and nightime is tough to hear also. It's been that way for several years.
 
Yabadabado1 said:
I can remember in the mid 70s listening to that noon gabfest [think like Kelly & {gag} Ryan] in NE Ohio. Came in fairly well for daytime. Nowadays, in daytime, non-existent and nightime is tough to hear also. It's been that way for several years.
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That would have been the 50-50 club, simulcast on the WLW television stations. It was. hosted by Ruth Lyons in the 50s and 60s, and Bob Braun in the late 60s, 70s into the 80s. The radio simulcast ended 1980ish
 
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