iHeartMedia clusters that have zero local personalities

[ScottBurns]

Not at all. I'm trying to help you understand how things work, and you keep telling me how much you hate radio.

Yes you're entitled to hate anything and anyone. But if you state that opinion and base it on wrong information, then doesn't it make that opinion wrong?

I never said I hate radio. I love radio and that’s why I’m here. I’m saddened and disgusted with the product today, and the main culprits are the top-big-to-fail behemoths like iHeart and Audacy.

No one’s opinion is wrong. I don’t believe my opinions are based on false info. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with these opinions:
1. Most music stations have playlists that are too repetitive.
2. Most music stations have playlists that are too tight.
3. Stations are too homogeneous from market to market and there’s little local variation.
4. Most stations show little creativity and put out a boring product.
5. Very few stations produce compelling content.

 

[TheBigA]

How, and why, is country radio in 2022 trying to aim older?

I said slightly older. 25 to 45

 

[TheBigA]

I never said I hate radio. I love radio and that’s why I’m here. I’m saddened and disgusted with the product today, and the main culprits are the top-big-to-fail behemoths like iHeart and Audacy.

You're basing it on what you think radio did 30 years ago. When you're shown that it was the same or worse, you refuse to accept it.

No one’s opinion is wrong. I don’t believe my opinions are based on false info. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with these opinions:

I'll say it again: What you want is a personal music service. That's not what radio does. That was NEVER was radio did. Radio just wants to attract an audience that it can sell to advertisers. If you're not in that audience, that's OK. I'm just trying to help you out.

 

[ScottBurns]

You're basing it on what you think radio did 30 years ago. When you're shown that it was the same or worse, you refuse to accept it.

*I don’t have to accept it.

I'll say it again: What you want is a personal music service. That's not what radio does. That was NEVER was radio did. Radio just wants to attract an audience that it can sell to advertisers. If you're not in that audience, that's OK. I'm just trying to help you out.

Then fine, I’m not in their audience. There are more than a handful of stations across the country that I like. In the meantime, I’ll keep advocating for my preferences. And I respectfully ask that you allow me my opinions.

 

[ScottBurns]

You're basing it on what you think radio did 30 years ago. When you're shown that it was the same or worse, you refuse to accept it.



I'll say it again: What you want is a personal music service. That's not what radio does. That was NEVER was radio did. Radio just wants to attract an audience that it can sell to advertisers. If you're not in that audience, that's OK. I'm just trying to help you out.

And you didn’t prove that there wasn’t playlist variation between markets 30 years ago. That was my main point here. Such variation doesn’t exist today. You stayed silent in that discussion that I had with David.

 

[TheBigA]

I respectfully ask that you allow me my opinions.

Opinions are fine to have when you keep them to yourself. When you post them on a public board, they become public property that can be subjected to discussion.

And you didn’t prove that there wasn’t playlist variation between markets 30 years ago. That was my main point here.

What do you mean by "playlist variation," and which format are you talking about?

I told you that every station posted its playlist in R&R 30 years ago, so you can see the playlists and see that they all played basically the same songs, mostly in the same order. Old R&Rs are available on American Radio History.com

Hits are hits. The biggest hits were played everywhere. That's what made them hits.

 

[davideduardo]

Not where I grew up. Today, Country stations hand pick about a dozen gold songs that test well. A generation ago, most gold was fair play on Country radio, especially songs that were 10-15 years old.

I managed a country station in Tallahassee back then and it was consulted by Rusty Walker and Phil Hunt. When we bought it, they were playing over 1200 songs, even the Evely Brothers. We cut to under 600 songs, and nearly doubled in the next book.

We kept the gold within, mostly, the last decade. We cut the currents but sped up the rotations. Listeners spontaneously said that the music was much better and had improved variety.

 

[davideduardo]

And you didn’t prove that there wasn’t playlist variation between markets 30 years ago. That was my main point here. Such variation doesn’t exist today. You stayed silent in that discussion that I had with David.

Any playlist variations tended to have to do with the market itself and the competitive array of stations. Also a factor was the size of the library that tested, as in some markets where a particular format tended to be more "niche" there would be fewer strong songs.

Most variations had to do with things other than the songs themselves.

Good example: an AC in a market that had an over-40 median age would have a slightly different tested list than in a market where the median was 36. But if you looked at a narrow part of the target demo, such as 38 to 42, the same songs tested pretty much the same in Fargo as in Providence.

 

[davideduardo]

I’m entitled to hate K-Earth. I’m sick of nearly every song they’ve beaten to death. Maybe it’s you who takes personally the fact that there are people who don’t like your preferred station(s).

And KRTH has the best numbers and the most salable demos it ever had today. And it has the shortest playlist ever.

 

[davideduardo]

Morning shows are….

Yes, to get live participation. They only need a handful of calls all morning... it is the raw material of their content, not a request line.

 

[Kelly A]

So come up with a better idea for listener interaction and investment in the station.

That's the point, there isn't any new ideas to increase listener interaction with radio. People just don't interact that way anymore. They use social media. Talent, artists, and advertisers, now use social media to stay in touch. Smartphones, Alexa, and smart speakers are what people use these days. Sure, some seniors and older folks still use telephones, but that isn't an audience advertisers are looking to reach.

 

[Kent]

I'd rather hear more songs, including some that I do not like, than the same songs day in and day out. Maybe that makes me odd or different. But even over-saturated songs sound better when I don't hear them every day.

You're certainly entitled to think that. You're not, however, in the majority. When I hear MC Hammer "U Can't Touch This" on a classic hits station, my first thought is "I Can't Stand This." Then, I'm off to another station. My reaction definitely isn't, "Wow! That's variety." About 30 years ago, we had a good test of the deeper playlist philosophy on the oldies format. Adams Radio typically ran oldies stations with deep playlists and thought they did it better than anyone else. The reality was, after getting competition, the Adams oldies stations were decimated by their more tightly programmed competitors. In San Antonio, Adams decided to take on KSMG "Magic 105.3" by flipping AOR 99.5 KISS to oldies. I even seem to remember KISS running liners that said, "Magic 105 only plays 475 songs. 99.5 The New KISS FM plays 750! Double the variety. Double the oldies!" KISS dumped AOR for oldies in the middle of July 1990. The result? By the end of the year, the GM who presided over the format change was sacked. The new GM pushed the PD out, but said GM only lasted a few months himself. By Memorial Day 1991, the station had gone through two GM's, two PD's, and the entire initial oldies airstaff was either fired or transferred to other Adams properties. KYA in San Francisco, not an Adams property, also had a deep playlist. After KXXX-FM dumped CHR for oldies KFRC-FM, KYA went straight to the bottom and lasted about another three years before KFRC bought it and got rid of it.

My experience has also been that listeners perceive stations repeat more songs than they actually do, especially when those are songs they don't like. Bad songs tend to really leave a bad impression on listeners. As an example, I used to work at an AC, and a friend of mine worked at a Great Clips that played my station all day long. After the Dixie Chicks released their cover of "Landslide," she told me we played that song too much. She swore up and down she heard that station 8 times every shift she worked. I informed her that wouldn't be possible unless she worked a 30 hour shift. Our powers were on a four hour rotation. On an average day, you would only hear that song six times from midnight to 11:59. Depending on where the song landed, you might hear it seven times in a 24 hour period, but you could never hear it any more than that. During an eight hour shift, there was no possible way she could hear that song more than three times. At least one day a week, she would only hear it once. She, however, hated the song, only had the radio on for background music at work, and thought she heard the song more than she really did.

 

[gr8oldies]

You're certainly entitled to think that. You're not, however, in the majority. When I hear MC Hammer "U Can't Touch This" on a classic hits station, my first thought is "I Can't Stand This." Then, I'm off to another station. My reaction definitely isn't, "Wow! That's variety." About 30 years ago, we had a good test of the deeper playlist philosophy on the oldies format. Adams Radio typically ran oldies stations with deep playlists and thought they did it better than anyone else. The reality was, after getting competition, the Adams oldies stations were decimated by their more tightly programmed competitors. In San Antonio, Adams decided to take on KSMG "Magic 105.3" by flipping AOR 99.5 KISS to oldies. I even seem to remember KISS running liners that said, "Magic 105 only plays 475 songs. 99.5 The New KISS FM plays 750! Double the variety. Double the oldies!" KISS dumped AOR for oldies in the middle of July 1990. The result? By the end of the year, the GM who presided over the format change was sacked. The new GM pushed the PD out, but said GM only lasted a few months himself. By Memorial Day 1991, the station had gone through two GM's, two PD's, and the entire initial oldies airstaff was either fired or transferred to other Adams properties. KYA in San Francisco, not an Adams property, also had a deep playlist. After KXXX-FM dumped CHR for oldies KFRC-FM, KYA went straight to the bottom and lasted about another three years before KFRC bought it and got rid of it.

My experience has also been that listeners perceive stations repeat more songs than they actually do, especially when those are songs they don't like. Bad songs tend to really leave a bad impression on listeners. As an example, I used to work at an AC, and a friend of mine worked at a Great Clips that played my station all day long. After the Dixie Chicks released their cover of "Landslide," she told me we played that song too much. She swore up and down she heard that station 8 times every shift she worked. I informed her that wouldn't be possible unless she worked a 30 hour shift. Our powers were on a four hour rotation. On an average day, you would only hear that song six times from midnight to 11:59. Depending on where the song landed, you might hear it seven times in a 24 hour period, but you could never hear it any more than that. During an eight hour shift, there was no possible way she could hear that song more than three times. At least one day a week, she would only hear it once. She, however, hated the song, only had the radio on for background music at work, and thought she heard the song more than she really did.

I bet she wasn't stopping the haircut or perm in process to closely listen to the DJ either

 

[Kent]

And as we have established, we are all entitled to our opinions. I shouldn’t have to subscribe to a personal service because you don’t like my opinion. I’m advocating for better radio.

I get the frustration of feeling like you have to pay for something you used to get free.

Here's the problem. You aren’t radio's customer precisely because you don’t pay for it. When I was a teenager and starting out at my first radio job, I asked my PD why we had such a strict policy of not playing requests. His response was, “The listeners aren’t our customers. They don’t pay us anything. Our customers are the advertisers, and the listeners are their customers. Our job is to move the listeners to the advertisers. We have our music set up to maximize the number of listeners going to our customers, and a request screws that up. When you don’t pay for the product, YOU are the product.”

Despite the steady loss of actual customers over the last 35+ years, radio is still extremely effective at getting listeners to customers. The internet, despite being all the rage among larger retailers and startups, isn't nearly as successful. I remember reading about a business that cut its internet ad spending from $1,000 a day to $50. It showed no difference in sales. While that could just be a bad business, it seems equally likely to me that internet ads just don’t deliver results, at least not yet. Advertisers generally don’t complain about radio.

 

[ScottBurns]

Opinions are fine to have when you keep them to yourself. When you post them on a public board, they become public property that can be subjected to discussion.

Respectfully, that’s trolling. You have absolutely no right to tell me that opinions are only fine when I keep them to myself. Of course they could be subject to discussion on a public message board. But at the end of day, respectful dialogue means allowing others to have opinions other than your own. I hold my tongue and don’t post as much as I’d like - precisely because I’m tired of your trolling of me. And I’m not the only one. I’ve received at least a half dozen private messages from others on this board, over the last two years, who have told me the same thing.

*What do you mean by "playlist variation," and which format are you talking about?

I mean that when two stations in adjacent markets - that had the same format - had significant variation in their playlists. I provided several examples to David.

I told you that every station posted its playlist in R&R 30 years ago, so you can see the playlists and see that they all played basically the same songs, mostly in the same order. Old R&Rs are available on American Radio History.com

Hits are hits. The biggest hits were played everywhere. That's what made them hits.

 

[ScottBurns]

I managed a country station in Tallahassee back then and it was consulted by Rusty Walker and Phil Hunt. When we bought it, they were playing over 1200 songs, even the Evely Brothers. We cut to under 600 songs, and nearly doubled in the next book.

We kept the gold within, mostly, the last decade. We cut the currents but sped up the rotations. Listeners spontaneously said that the music was much better and had improved variety.

I’m in the minority that prefers the greater variety. There’s nothing wrong with that.

 

[ScottBurns]

That's the point, there isn't any new ideas to increase listener interaction with radio. People just don't interact that way anymore. They use social media. Talent, artists, and advertisers, now use social media to stay in touch. Smartphones, Alexa, and smart speakers are what people use these days. Sure, some seniors and older folks still use telephones, but that isn't an audience advertisers are looking to reach.

I just find it sad that there aren’t any new ideas to improve radio. Listenership is down for those under 50. Radio will die at this rate. Doesn’t anyone want to save radio?

 

[ScottBurns]

You're certainly entitled to think that. You're not, however, in the majority. When I hear MC Hammer "U Can't Touch This" on a classic hits station, my first thought is "I Can't Stand This." Then, I'm off to another station. My reaction definitely isn't, "Wow! That's variety." About 30 years ago, we had a good test of the deeper playlist philosophy on the oldies format. Adams Radio typically ran oldies stations with deep playlists and thought they did it better than anyone else. The reality was, after getting competition, the Adams oldies stations were decimated by their more tightly programmed competitors. In San Antonio, Adams decided to take on KSMG "Magic 105.3" by flipping AOR 99.5 KISS to oldies. I even seem to remember KISS running liners that said, "Magic 105 only plays 475 songs. 99.5 The New KISS FM plays 750! Double the variety. Double the oldies!" KISS dumped AOR for oldies in the middle of July 1990. The result? By the end of the year, the GM who presided over the format change was sacked. The new GM pushed the PD out, but said GM only lasted a few months himself. By Memorial Day 1991, the station had gone through two GM's, two PD's, and the entire initial oldies airstaff was either fired or transferred to other Adams properties. KYA in San Francisco, not an Adams property, also had a deep playlist. After KXXX-FM dumped CHR for oldies KFRC-FM, KYA went straight to the bottom and lasted about another three years before KFRC bought it and got rid of it.

My experience has also been that listeners perceive stations repeat more songs than they actually do, especially when those are songs they don't like. Bad songs tend to really leave a bad impression on listeners. As an example, I used to work at an AC, and a friend of mine worked at a Great Clips that played my station all day long. After the Dixie Chicks released their cover of "Landslide," she told me we played that song too much. She swore up and down she heard that station 8 times every shift she worked. I informed her that wouldn't be possible unless she worked a 30 hour shift. Our powers were on a four hour rotation. On an average day, you would only hear that song six times from midnight to 11:59. Depending on where the song landed, you might hear it seven times in a 24 hour period, but you could never hear it any more than that. During an eight hour shift, there was no possible way she could hear that song more than three times. At least one day a week, she would only hear it once. She, however, hated the song, only had the radio on for background music at work, and thought she heard the song more than she really did.

I’ve kept logs of how often I’ve heard songs on Classic Hits and Country stations. I heard the same Kenny Chesney song 11 times in a week last summer.

I’m in the minority and I’m fine with that.

 

[ScottBurns]

I get the frustration of feeling like you have to pay for something you used to get free.

Here's the problem. You aren’t radio's customer precisely because you don’t pay for it. When I was a teenager and starting out at my first radio job, I asked my PD why we had such a strict policy of not playing requests. His response was, “The listeners aren’t our customers. They don’t pay us anything. Our customers are the advertisers, and the listeners are their customers. Our job is to move the listeners to the advertisers. We have our music set up to maximize the number of listeners going to our customers, and a request screws that up. When you don’t pay for the product, YOU are the product.”

Despite the steady loss of actual customers over the last 35+ years, radio is still extremely effective at getting listeners to customers. The internet, despite being all the rage among larger retailers and startups, isn't nearly as successful. I remember reading about a business that cut its internet ad spending from $1,000 a day to $50. It showed no difference in sales. While that could just be a bad business, it seems equally likely to me that internet ads just don’t deliver results, at least not yet. Advertisers generally don’t complain about radio.

But wouldn’t you agree that if radio is losing listeners, why double down on a losing strategy? Why not implement new ideas to make radio more appealing and compelling to draw more listeners rather than stopping the bleeding?

 

[ScottBurns]

I bet she wasn't stopping the haircut or perm in process to closely listen to the DJ either

Now you’re just insulting the great work - and effort - made by many jocks over the years.