An interesting Nielsen Audio diary keeping tutorial...

[MarkW]

Perhaps this explains why the total reported shares in many markets only add up to 65 percent, 70 percent or perhaps 75 percent of total reported listening?

The tutorial is basically telling diary keepers to record satellite radio and internet audio listening! I suspect share data is NOT adjusted to remove such listening from share percentage calculations.

https://www.nielsenradiodiary.com/downloads/NielsenDiary_english.pdf

 

[gr8oldies]

Yes, I am a recent diary participant and we recorded our satellite and online listening.

 

[tbolt909]

Perhaps this explains why the total reported shares in many markets only add up to 65 percent, 70 percent or perhaps 75 percent of total reported listening?

The tutorial is basically telling diary keepers to record satellite radio and internet audio listening! I suspect share data is NOT adjusted to remove such listening from share percentage calculations.

https://www.nielsenradiodiary.com/downloads/NielsenDiary_english.pdf

This just reflects reality. There are more listening options than ever before. If Commercial Radio doesn't provide what someone wants, they can find it somewhere else. Nielsen needs participation to get data. If they limit it to only "Traditional Radio", the sample size will continue to shrink...

 

[davideduardo]

Perhaps this explains why the total reported shares in many markets only add up to 65 percent, 70 percent or perhaps 75 percent of total reported listening?

Here is Los Angeles as an example:

First, the huge percentage of the "missing" shares come from non-subscribed stations. Each of those has some share... often significant. In LA, the EMF station is not subscribed and apparently accounts for nearly two shares by itself.

Another percentage comes from stations and their streams with less than 0.1 of share... but if you have 50 to 100 or more of those you end up with quite a few share points.

A further percentage comes from stations that are not home to the market, such as Ventura, Riverside/San Bernardino or San Diego stations that are well listened to on in the northwestern, eastern and southern parts of the LA market.

In August, 42 stations showed up with 0.1 or more in the LA book, but there were a over a dozen that were not subscribed and did not show in the public release numbers.

For example, LA has 192 "stations" that are home to the market... including all of the above. So if you add the public release numbers which are just subscribers, you miss all those non-subscribers along with the out of market signals and the tiny stations that don't even get 0.1 in the subscriber data.

The tutorial is basically telling diary keepers to record satellite radio and internet audio listening! I suspect share data is NOT adjusted to remove such listening from share percentage calculations.

Your suspicion is not correct.

That's because Nielsen does separate reports for other media. The PPM is going to record streams, satellite and TV as well... anything that has audio. The radio report shows AM, FM, streams of AM and FM, and HD channels of FM stations as well as translators, educational stations, etc. At some point, the PPM will cover every medium that has encodable audio.

 

[davideduardo]

This just reflects reality. There are more listening options than ever before. If Commercial Radio doesn't provide what someone wants, they can find it somewhere else. Nielsen needs participation to get data. If they limit it to only "Traditional Radio", the sample size will continue to shrink...

The Nielsen survey does not recruit only people who listen to radio. They recruit "people". Period. There is no requirement that they be radio listeners, stream or satellite listeners or even TV viewers. The PPM survey will eventually cover all forms of audio, from radio to TV to streams.

The ARB / Arbitron / Nielsen radio study quantifies people who do not listen to radio at all, and always has. It's not a study of just radio listeners, and never has been.

 

[tbolt909]

The Nielsen survey does not recruit only people who listen to radio. They recruit "people". Period. There is no requirement that they be radio listeners, stream or satellite listeners or even TV viewers. The PPM survey will eventually cover all forms of audio, from radio to TV to streams.

When will the PPM be implemented everywhere? PPM
was supposed to replace the diary markets 10 years ago and Arbitron never followed through. PPM still cannot differentiate between "listening and hearing". The device records the audio source, but whether the human actually was paying attention is debatable...

 

[MarkW]

Your suspicion is not correct.

That's because Nielsen does separate reports for other media. The PPM is going to record streams, satellite and TV as well... anything that has audio. The radio report shows AM, FM, streams of AM and FM, and HD channels of FM stations as well as translators, educational stations, etc. At some point, the PPM will cover every medium that has encodable audio.

You're talking PPM, David. I'm talking diary logs. Two different things.

I certainly trust your earlier remarks insofar as PPM is concerned.

However, I think there is only a low chance the multiple diary markets I've reviewed where 30 or 35 shares are "missing" from published results are entirely attributable to non-subscribing stations, out of market stations, and streams of (in or out of market) AM/FM stations.

 

[AM FM listener]

The Nielsen survey does not recruit only people who listen to radio. They recruit "people". Period. There is no requirement that they be radio listeners, stream or satellite listeners or even TV viewers. The PPM survey will eventually cover all forms of audio, from radio to TV to streams.

David, I recently started a separate "Conversation" with you regarding Nielsen but this seems like a good thread to ask you a question. I have recently been contacted by Nielsen to participate in their PPM survey for the Seattle market. I am happy to do so but to some extent, Nielsen's recruiting style comes across to me as "phishing" or some other type of telephone scam. How can I tell if it's legit? I think it is but just want to be sure before agreeing to participate. Please refer to my "Conversation" with you for more details. Thank you.

 

[davideduardo]

When will the PPM be implemented everywhere? PPM
was supposed to replace the diary markets 10 years ago and Arbitron never followed through.

That is not true. The PPM is so expensive that it was never intended to be used other than in the top 50 markets (with two exceptions) because stations could not afford it.

I was on the development committee for PPM going back to the original Philadelphia tests in 2002aand followed by the Houston tests and even the joint Nielsen / Arbitron development meetings, so I am very familiar with the plans for roll-out.

Many of the markets from 50 to 100 don't even do 4 diary books a year due to cost.

PPM still cannot differentiate between "listening and hearing".

And they never intended it to. Advertisers don't care whether a person selected a station or not... they care whether people hear their ad.

The device records the audio source, but whether the human actually was paying attention is debatable...

And... guess what? Advertisers know that. They know people get up to pee and snack during TV breaks. They know people skip whole sections of the newspaper and don't read every magazine all the way through, too. Same for ads on websites. All this is taken into account.

 

[davideduardo]

David, I recently started a separate "Conversation" with you regarding Nielsen but this seems like a good thread to ask you a question. I have recently been contacted by Nielsen to participate in their PPM survey for the Seattle market. I am happy to do so but to some extent, Nielsen's recruiting style comes across to me as "phishing" or some other type of telephone scam. How can I tell if it's legit? I think it is but just want to be sure before agreeing to participate. Please refer to my "Conversation" with you for more details. Thank you.

The simplest thing is to go to the Nielsen website and look for contact information and ask for verification.

I'd never thought that someone might use ratings as part of a scam, but that is certainly a concern. On the other hand, they are not going to send expensive PPM devices (several hundred dollars for a household) otherwise. And Nielsen requires nothing of a panelist except carrying the meter... so if they ask for credit card or account data, it is a scam.

 

[davideduardo]

You're talking PPM, David. I'm talking diary logs. Two different things.

There is a percentage of diaries that are returned with no listening.

However, I think there is only a low chance the multiple diary markets I've reviewed where 30 or 35 shares are "missing" from published results are entirely attributable to non-subscribing stations, out of market stations, and streams of (in or out of market) AM/FM stations.

Diary markets are much smaller, and many stations do not subscribe. And also many are close to larger markets and lots of listening is to out of market stations... such as Ventura/Oxnard, CA, for example.

Even bigger PPM markets like West Palm Beach and Riverside / San Bernardino have huge percentages of out of market listening.

 

[AM FM listener]

The simplest thing is to go to the Nielsen website and look for contact information and ask for verification.

I'd never thought that someone might use ratings as part of a scam, but that is certainly a concern. On the other hand, they are not going to send expensive PPM devices (several hundred dollars for a household) otherwise. And Nielsen requires nothing of a panelist except carrying the meter... so if they ask for credit card or account data, it is a scam.

Thanks, David. That is helpful. I think it would be fun to be a part of the survey. My listening and viewing habits (they mentioned both radio and TV to me on the phone) will actually matter! Ha.

 

[TheBigA]

The tutorial is basically telling diary keepers to record satellite radio and internet audio listening!

But Nielsen only gets paid for broadcast. Sirius doesn't want their audience numbers public. None of the streamers pay either. Nielsen is in the business of selling information.

So they want truthful responses from diary keepers. If you were to see the completed diaries in your market, you'd see all of the other data. But it isn't publicly available. And it doesn't factor into share numbers.

 

[tbolt909]

That is not true. The PPM is so expensive that it was never intended to be used other than in the top 50 markets (with two exceptions) because stations could not afford it.

I was on the development committee for PPM going back to the original Philadelphia tests in 2002aand followed by the Houston tests and even the joint Nielsen / Arbitron development meetings, so I am very familiar with the plans for roll-out.

Perhaps you are right, but I remember seeing stories that PPM would gradually be implemented everywhere. What you have now is a piece meal system. You talk about the high cost, but shouldn't accuracy be more important? You have stated that many Radio operators dislike the PPM because it delivers more relevant data. The diary system can find stations getting credit for listening that happened 15 years ago. Some guy writes down the Classic Rock station "he used to listen to".

The PPM certainly has some flaws, but using different methodology based on market size isn't great either. It's like having different rules in the NFL for teams based on their market size...

 

[MarkW]

Diary markets are much smaller, and many stations do not subscribe. And also many are close to larger markets and lots of listening is to out of market stations... such as Ventura/Oxnard, CA, for example.

So they want truthful responses from diary keepers. If you were to see the completed diaries in your market, you'd see all of the other data. But it isn't publicly available. And it doesn't factor into share numbers.

I am quite familiar with some of the markets where I've reviewed the share data, and I think it is highly unlikely out-of-market stations and non-subscribing stations are mostly responsible for the 30 to 35 shares of listening that aren't disclosed to the public.

There would be no reason for Nielsen to direct diary keepers to record satellite radio listening, for example, if Nielsen weren't factoring in such data into share percentage calculations, since in the words of BigA, "Nielsen only gets paid for broadcast."

Even bigger PPM markets like West Palm Beach and Riverside / San Bernardino have huge percentages of out of market listening.

My points of reference include markets such as Grand Rapids, MI, Lansing, MI and Toledo, OH. Detroit FMs are pretty fuzzy in Toledo and are usually not receivable at all in the Lansing urbanized area (only in rural portions of Ingham County do they provide OK reception). Grand Rapids can pick up a few AM stations from Chicago that used to collectively grab less than a full share of total market listening 30 years ago.

 

[gr8oldies]

I'm a recent diarykeeper and was asked to record all listening, not to omit satellite or online/app listening.

 

[TheBigA]

There would be no reason for Nielsen to direct diary keepers to record satellite radio listening, for example, if Nielsen weren't factoring in such data into share percentage calculations, since in the words of BigA, "Nielsen only gets paid for broadcast."

There are other ways that Nielsen uses the non-broadcast data, such as People Using Radio. But share means share. The share number has to mean something, and they're clear what that means.

share The percent of an audience tuned to a specific program at the time of the survey rating. share (%) = households to station / households using television [HUT] -or- share (%) = viewers or listeners to station / (people using television [PUT] / average quarter-hour persons [AQH]

 

[gr8oldies]

Several months later, Nielsen followed up with a more broad-based consumer survey, which included media, grocery stores, brand preferences, etc.

 

[Kelly A]

Several months later, Nielsen followed up with a more broad-based consumer survey, which included media, grocery stores, brand preferences, etc.

Sure, because Nielsen collects and sells market research data for more than just radio and TV. Media isn't a large enough sector to run a company the size of Nielsen.

 

[Kelly A]

The diary system can find stations getting credit for listening that happened 15 years ago. Some guy writes down the Classic Rock station "he used to listen to".

And something like that was/is a major flaw in diaries; accuracy. After PPM, it became apparent that certain formats were given diary credit because someone liked the concept of smooth jazz, but in reality, rarely if ever listened.