Finding ancient playlists (with a KTWV example)

[yeoldeschool]

How far back do the song-by-song playlist databases maintained by companies like Mediabase go? Is it possible to examine or search through them going as far back as 20 or even 30 years?

Every so often, I recall the handful of key stations I frequented in my youth and the countless songs they once played that, while popular at the time, aren't heard on the air at all anymore -- "oh wow songs," so to speak. And as I get older, I think about how much fun it would be, having the ability to re-discover most of those songs with precise searches like "give me a no-duplicate-entries .csv of title/artist/album/year entries for all songs played on KTWV >= 10 times/month during at least 1 month from 02/14/87 to 12/31/92." But I wonder if such a thing is even possible. Is it?

One reason I'm particularly interested in this subject is that, every so often, I'll find a piece of music in an old aircheck that's so obscure, neither humans nor algorithms can seemingly identify it today. Supposedly all-knowing services like Shazam will fail to recognize it entirely, and even silly tricks like uploading it to Youtube using a throw-away Google account in hopes of earning an intentional copyright strike (and a free song ID in the process) yield nothing.

Take https://files.catbox.moe/0lg0xl.mp4 for example. This is from an ancient VHS tape off my old cable system's public access channel, which was playing KTWV during the morning hours of December 20, 1989. The song that airs after "Know Who You Are" by "Supertramp" is the mystery song in question. I have been unable to identify it despite numerous attempts/inqueries throughout the years. So I've taken to thinking I'll never identify it at all, short of finding some company that actually keeps playlist databases going back decades.

Anyone have any insight on this? The main stations (and accompanying time periods) I've always wanted to somehow acquire song lists for are KTWV (dates above), KZLA (1983-1990), KPWR (1986-1993), and KOST (1983-1993). But in the meantime, it would sure be nice simply being able to identify unobtanium like the track in that video clip above.

 

[gr8oldies]

Soundhound says "Love Under Will" by Fields of the Nephilim though Soundhound could be on drugs

 

[Cordelia Chase]

This puzzles me! I looked up the Fields of the Nephilim track on YouTube and it sure seems to be the same as the one in question. I had never heard of Fields of the Nephilim before, but they are a Goth band from England, and it seems like the riff from Nephilim's song "Love Under Will" was extracted and reimagined as an instrumental easy listening selection. Could this be right, yeoldeschool? By the way, thanks for figuring that out, gr8oldies!

 

[yeoldeschool]

I tried identifying the song with Shazam several times 4-5 years ago and several times again last week. On both occasions, I got "no match" results as frequently as random misidentifications. So it would appear Soundhound is doing the same thing Shazam did/does: random bad results. (Cordelia, you must have a better inner musician than I; whatever resemblance you're hearing, it's too abstract for me to pick up on. )

 

[yeoldeschool]

Is it taboo to bump a thread this old? (If so, forgive me Mod, for I have sinned.) But while I appreciated the two responses I got above, that song ID wasn't correct. And I still don't know what it is, eleven months later.

Is there anybody hanging around here who has access to those databases -- whether for the data sets I originally fantasized about having, or even for this one song alone? I have to think there must be somebody. Or maybe several somebodies.

 

[NoMoreLurking]

It's called "Tracking the Light" by Divine Matrix. ~VERY~ 1989 KTWV.

Don't ask me how I know this.

For those impossible to answer questions about old radio and music, try https://worldradiohistory.com/. If a particular station was reporting to a trade "magazine" (how quaint!) you may be able to find that info at this amazing resource. I'm not aware of any public archive of Mediabase info, but I have to believe the data exists. Somewhere.

 

[yeoldeschool]

It's called "Tracking the Light" by Divine Matrix. ~VERY~ 1989 KTWV.

Shucks. I appreciate whatever effort you undertook to find that ID, but it still isn't the song in my catbox.moe link. Did you perhaps use Shazam? Each time I (and others in this thread) have run it through that service, the result has been a completely random, wrong ID. I tried boosting the high end EQ, feeding it different portions of the song. Nothing comes back except completely random stuff.

About worldradiohistory.com, isn't that David Eduardo's site? I've looked through some of the publications there you're referencing, but I don't recall any that contained chronological playlists. What I saw were only charts and rankings. So unless you know of specific publications that reproduced actual date- and timestamped music logs, going by charts alone would be a complete shot in the dark. Possibly especially with this song, which, if it's so obscure Shazam doesn't know it, may not have charted or ranked highly enough to be reported to start with.

It MAY have been played on December 20, 1989 prior to 11:08 AM PST (judging by the appearance of the old "Prevue Guide" recording immediately after the KTWV portion of the tape). But after 33 years, I no longer remember how long I had the VCR on pause/stop between recording those two channels. Alas, the only definitive information I have is that it it's a song that immediately followed "Know Who You Are" by Supertramp some time in December of 1989. Which makes me think that only someone connected enough, with access to something like Mediabase, who could find every play of that Supertramp cut during that particular month and year, and then look at what came right after each such play, would ever be able to help me identify this mysterious enigma.

Again, thanks for trying.

 

[davideduardo]

About worldradiohistory.com, isn't that David Eduardo's site?

Yes, published under my full name.

I've looked through some of the publications there you're referencing, but I don't recall any that contained chronological playlists. What I saw were only charts and rankings.

By "chronological", do you mean "station logs" of the music in the order it was played? I don't know of any. But if you look at the publications radio stations used (NOT Billboard) such as R&R, Hamilton, FMQB, Gavin, etc., you can see the station reports each week showing chart movement.

So unless you know of specific publications that reproduced actual date- and timestamped music logs, going by charts alone would be a complete shot in the dark. Possibly especially with this song, which, if it's so obscure Shazam doesn't know it, may not have charted or ranked highly enough to be reported to start with.

Your best bet is to use the search function on each radio music publication on www.worldradiohistory.com where you put in the artist and title. If it was on any station's reports, it should come up there.

It MAY have been played on December 20, 1989 prior to 11:08 AM PST (judging by the appearance of the old "Prevue Guide" recording immediately after the KTWV portion of the tape). But after 33 years, I no longer remember how long I had the VCR on pause/stop between recording those two channels. Alas, the only definitive information I have is that it it's a song that immediately followed "Know Who You Are" by Supertramp some time in December of 1989. Which makes me think that only someone connected enough, with access to something like Mediabase, who could find every play of that Supertramp cut during that particular month and year, and then look at what came right after each such play, would ever be able to help me identify this mysterious enigma.

1989 was pre-digital detectction of songs. So I doubt there is any register of that song being played unless it is on some station's playlist and that station reported to one of the trades.

 

[spiritof67]

Yeoldeschool, I just discovered your post this evening. This is not a song I recognize. But I have some suggestions.

On David's website, there are several KTWV "Wave Music Letters" scanned as pdf files. I was on the mailing list for them too, and I live in the Midwest. Each issue offered a list of current recordings KTWV was playing. This could be matched with youtube uploads.

Where I live, we had a national network service similar to KTWV known as "The Breeze." In 2021, Kyle Jameson started a weekly show based on the early years of the smooth jazz format (also called "The Breeze.") Kyle has an extensive music library of LPs and CDs from that era. The show can be found at portraitsinsound.blogspot.com and his contact information is at that site.

Jake Longwell at Quality Audio Productions also has an extended library of jazz and new age music--he can be reached here: qualityradioproductions (the 'at' symbol) yahoo.com

 

[davideduardo]

Yeoldeschool, I just discovered your post this evening. This is not a song I recognize. But I have some suggestions.

On David's website, there are several KTWV "Wave Music Letters" scanned as pdf files. I was on the mailing list for them too, and I live in the Midwest. Each issue offered a list of current recordings KTWV was playing. This could be matched with youtube uploads.

And those Wave newsletters are searchable, so you can look for the artist or title.

 

[yeoldeschool]

By "chronological", do you mean "station logs" of the music in the order it was played? I don't know of any. But if you look at the publications radio stations used (NOT Billboard) such as R&R, Hamilton, FMQB, Gavin, etc., you can see the station reports each week showing chart movement.

Yes, I meant station logs. Because:

Your best bet is to use the search function on each radio music publication on www.worldradiohistory.com where you put in the artist and title. If it was on any station's reports, it should come up there.

I don't have this song's title or artist. Only the brief audio clip that's at 00m:40s in https://files.catbox.moe/0lg0xl.mp4. "Know Who You Are" by Supertramp plays immediately prior to it in that MP4 (separated only by a station ID), so I figured that would be my only definitive method of identifying the mystery song -- by getting access to station logs from December 1989, and noting every artist/title that played after each play of that Supertramp song.

1989 was pre-digital detectction of songs. So I doubt there is any register of that song being played unless it is on some station's playlist and that station reported to one of the trades.

Right. And that's where things become insurmountable, because I would have to basically go through multiple charts/surveys in multiple magazines, and call up every song they list on Youtube/Spotify. And since lots of songs KTWV was playing back then were from very independent and obscure artists, there will be lots of songs on those charts I won't be able to find online. The result: I might not identify the song because it was never listed in the trades, or because it was but I can't hear it online to know when I've found it. Meaning this would become "A Project(TM)," one I've always wanted to avoid even attempting -- at least until I knew for sure that there were no sources for station logs from that era.

Since you say there aren't, I guess that means I'll have to go that route after all some day. Thanks for letting me know.

 

[yeoldeschool]

Yeoldeschool, I just discovered your post this evening. This is not a song I recognize. But I have some suggestions.

On David's website, there are several KTWV "Wave Music Letters" scanned as pdf files. I was on the mailing list for them too, and I live in the Midwest. Each issue offered a list of current recordings KTWV was playing. This could be matched with youtube uploads.

Where I live, we had a national network service similar to KTWV known as "The Breeze." In 2021, Kyle Jameson started a weekly show based on the early years of the smooth jazz format (also called "The Breeze.") Kyle has an extensive music library of LPs and CDs from that era. The show can be found at portraitsinsound.blogspot.com and his contact information is at that site.

Jake Longwell at Quality Audio Productions also has an extended library of jazz and new age music--he can be reached here: qualityradioproductions (the 'at' symbol) yahoo.com

Thanks for these fantastic tips. I will try contacting them both. I'll also check out the KTWV newsletters. I believe I already found and saved them a couple years ago, but now that I know I may have to do this the hard way (absent Jake Longwell or Kyle Jameson being able to identify the song), those will come in handy as extra sources for me to peruse.

 

[yeoldeschool]

Yeoldeschool, I just discovered your post this evening. This is not a song I recognize. But I have some suggestions.

On David's website, there are several KTWV "Wave Music Letters" scanned as pdf files. I was on the mailing list for them too, and I live in the Midwest. Each issue offered a list of current recordings KTWV was playing. This could be matched with youtube uploads.

Where I live, we had a national network service similar to KTWV known as "The Breeze." In 2021, Kyle Jameson started a weekly show based on the early years of the smooth jazz format (also called "The Breeze.") Kyle has an extensive music library of LPs and CDs from that era. The show can be found at portraitsinsound.blogspot.com and his contact information is at that site.

Jake Longwell at Quality Audio Productions also has an extended library of jazz and new age music--he can be reached here: qualityradioproductions (the 'at' symbol) yahoo.com

Are you still around, spiritof67? After e-mailing both these individuals, I discovered that the qualityradioproductions e-mail address in particular was invalid. Somehow I neglected to return to this thread and ask whether you knew another method of contacting Jake.

Incidentally, to you and anyone else who may be reading: after all this time, I still haven't been able to determine that song's identity. Sigh!

Oh, and something related. On the subject of KTWV itself, for all you aircheck collectors out there, have a look at the uploads by https://www.youtube.com/user/kamepo from between June 2021 and October 2021. Somebody in another thread here on the forum recently posted a direct link to one of his videos. But when I checked out the entire account of that video's uploader, I discovered much to my delight that he actually had several very long and extremely high quality airchecks of several Los Angeles stations (among others) from the very early 1990s -- some of which, in spite of the time period, were captured pure digital and sound perfect. And two of his pure digital airchecks just so happen to be of KTWV from 1991 and 1992.

Anyone wanting to rip the audio from those videos, youtube-dlp is your friend. Tell it to fetch Youtube format 251, which is the highest audio quality format available from Youtube these days (Opus format averaging about 130 kbit/s). The next best is AAC in an mp4 container averaging about 128 kbit/s (format 140).