Streaming to the U.S. being blocked

[JoeLouis]

Why are many stations I used to stream form Canada being blocked (including CHFI) that I enjoyed over the years with a good mix of Christmas music both Canadian and American, all I get is a robo message saying that this station (and others) are not allowed to stream to the USA (not sure about the rest of the world) I still get CKTB 610 from St. Catherine's, 680 News, Zoomer 740 and CFRB 1010 from Toronto, but it seems like top 40 and Adult Contemporary stations are being blocked.

 

[ksradiogeek]

Why are many stations I used to stream form Canada being blocked (including CHFI) that I enjoyed over the years with a good mix of Christmas music both Canadian and American, all I get is a robo message saying that this station (and others) are not allowed to stream to the USA (not sure about the rest of the world) I still get CKTB 610 from St. Catherine's, 680 News, Zoomer 740 and CFRB 1010 from Toronto, but it seems like top 40 and Adult Contemporary stations are being blocked.

This can somewhat help explain why:

TV shows, movies, music and other content online | CRTC

In Canada, services that broadcast over the Internet don't need a licence from the CRTC, as we exempted them from this obligation. We do not intervene on content on the Internet.

crtc.gc.ca

 

[louis_p]

The geoblocking restrictions are due to copyright royalties that the broadcasters pay for each song that is streamed by a listener. My understanding is that these fees are higher for US and international listeners. The news and talk stations don’t have to contend with these fees since they don’t play music.

The same situation exists when Canadians try to stream US stations. Cumulus, Audacy, Apollo, and almost all of the major broadcasting groups geoblock their streams from international listeners.

The one notable exception is iHeart who has partnered with Bell Media and promotes the iHeart app in this market. I read on another thread that iHeart (Clear Channel at the time) negotiated reduced royalties which is why their streams are available internationally.

 

[JoeLouis]

Great answer, I learned a new word this week, geoblocking, never heard of that, but it sounds short for geographic blocking, oh well there are plenty of American stations that play the same tunes, if that's the way it is, so be it.

 

[louis_p]

Geoblocking involves restricting access to content based on the country that the user’s IP address is domiciled in. Companies like Maxmind and Google maintain publicly accessible databases that anyone can use to perform reverse lookups of an IP address. You can check this out yourself if you go to whatismyipaddress.com

I’m not sure how the business side works, but when I stream an iHeart station, ads for local Canadian businesses are inserted into the stream and the commercials from the station’s local area are preempted. I assume this is your iHeart monetizes their streams globally.

Also, I have the ability to stream several mon-and-pop stations from small towns in places like Montana and Wyoming without any restrictions. I don’t know how these small businesses can afford the copyright fees but a massive company like Audacy can’t.

 

[davideduardo]

Great answer, I learned a new word this week, geoblocking, never heard of that, but it sounds short for geographic blocking, oh well there are plenty of American stations that play the same tunes, if that's the way it is, so be it.

Geoblocking can also be used to limit within a country the zone or area where a station can be heard. There is strong reason for doing this, since a station can not easily monetize listening outside its local area, but has to pay artist and label licensing by the "listened play" for those distant listeners.

 

[louis_p]

Geoblocking can also be used to limit within a country the zone or area where a station can be heard. There is strong reason for doing this, since a station can not easily monetize listening outside its local area, but has to pay artist and label licensing by the "listened play" for those distant listeners.

The only problem with this approach is that the location returned by an IP address look up is not always accurate. ISPs like Starlink assign IP addresses that may report the user’s location hundreds of miles away from where they actually are. This is a known issue with NHL and NBA League Pass where local and regional blackouts of games apply.

The best way to circumvent this is to use a VPN to change your IP address and geolocation.

 

[davideduardo]

The only problem with this approach is that the location returned by an IP address look up is not always accurate. ISPs like Starlink assign IP addresses that may report the user’s location hundreds of miles away from where they actually are. This is a known issue with NHL and NBA League Pass where local and regional blackouts of games apply.

The best way to circumvent this is to use a VPN to change your IP address and geolocation.

But for stations, a few such cases avoid a huge expense that can make streaming very expensive.

 

[CTListener]

The only problem with this approach is that the location returned by an IP address look up is not always accurate. ISPs like Starlink assign IP addresses that may report the user’s location hundreds of miles away from where they actually are. This is a known issue with NHL and NBA League Pass where local and regional blackouts of games apply.

The best way to circumvent this is to use a VPN to change your IP address and geolocation.

I've been able to retain the internet horse race betting account I had in Connecticut even though the company that runs it doesn't do business in Vermont, where I now live. That's because my IP traces to a location just across the Connecticut River in New Hampshire, where the company accepts customers from. You'd think technology would have advanced by now to the point where such rule-bending would be difficult to impossible, but so far, it seems you can pretty much get whatever you want online if you try just a little bit.

 

[landtuna]

The only problem with this approach is that the location returned by an IP address look up is not always accurate. ISPs like Starlink assign IP addresses that may report the user’s location hundreds of miles away from where they actually are. This is a known issue with NHL and NBA League Pass where local and regional blackouts of games apply.

The best way to circumvent this is to use a VPN to change your IP address and geolocation.

I've recently discovered my VPN provider works if using one server but not another server. Since my provider hasn't yet responded to my tech ticket I can think of two reasons why: (1) The destination server has blocked the VPN address generated or (2) the generated VPN IP has been flagged as a VPN service and the destination IP address will not accept input from that IP.

 

[louis_p]

But for stations, a few such cases avoid a huge expense that can make streaming very expensive.

It would be interesting to learn more about the business side. The approach that iHeart has taken is to permit access to all stations and insert ads into the streams that are locally relevant to the listener. Regardless of the station that I choose to stream, I’m hearing ads for my local area and (I assume) iHeart is collecting some ad revenue from that.

The other approach is to restrict listening to an area that mirrors the station’s terrestrial footprint and not attempt to monetize the stream at all.

I would think that the iHeart approach would be more profitable, but there must be a valid reason as to why other broadcasters don’t implement it.

 

[gr8oldies]

A Canadian broadcaster would have to pay both SOCAN (The Society of Composers, Authors and Music Publishers of Canada) and Soundexchange to stream to both the US and Canada.

 

[davideduardo]

It would be interesting to learn more about the business side. The approach that iHeart has taken is to permit access to all stations and insert ads into the streams that are locally relevant to the listener. Regardless of the station that I choose to stream, I’m hearing ads for my local area and (I assume) iHeart is collecting some ad revenue from that.

But for smaller broadcasters, there is no economy of scale to permit creating a sales organization and technical operation. And, while they can affiliate / associate with a third party, there is likely no profit to be hand and the expenses still fall on the station.

The other approach is to restrict listening to an area that mirrors the station’s terrestrial footprint and not attempt to monetize the stream at all.

And some do that. However, if the station gets significant agency business, most of those accounts prohibit streaming due to the high AFTRA-SAG fees on the productions.

I would think that the iHeart approach would be more profitable, but there must be a valid reason as to why other broadcasters don’t implement it.

Again, for smaller broadcasters there is limited or no revenue but considerable expense.

 

[louis_p]

But for smaller broadcasters, there is no economy of scale to permit creating a sales organization and technical operation. And, while they can affiliate / associate with a third party, there is likely no profit to be hand and the expenses still fall on the station.

And some do that. However, if the station gets significant agency business, most of those accounts prohibit streaming due to the high AFTRA-SAG fees on the productions.

Again, for smaller broadcasters there is limited or no revenue but considerable expense.

Ironically, most of the small, independent mom-and-pop stations are not geoblocked. For example, I can stream KOZI-FM from Chelan, WA. There are no restrictions when I stream from Canada. Also, the stream includes local commercials. The stream content is identical to what a listener of the terrestrial signal would hear over the air via a transistor radio.

I doubt that the small businesses in Chelan are paying a premium for their spots to be broadcast over the net to a global audience.

Also, I assume that KOZI must pay song royalties just like the other stations.

It’s interesting that KOZI can afford these costs, yet a company like Audacy with deep pockets can’t.

 

[CTListener]

Ironically, most of the small, independent mom-and-pop stations are not geoblocked. For example, I can stream KOZI-FM from Chelan, WA. There are no restrictions when I stream from Canada. Also, the stream includes local commercials. The stream content is identical to what a listener of the terrestrial signal would hear over the air via a transistor radio.

I doubt that the small businesses in Chelan are paying a premium for their spots to be broadcast over the net to a global audience.

Also, I assume that KOZI must pay song royalties just like the other stations.

It’s interesting that KOZI can afford these costs, yet a company like Audacy with deep pockets can’t.

Likely because the station has so few people streaming it that it can absorb the costs. Just because a stream is available globally doesn't mean millions, thousands or even hundreds of internet users are actually listening to it. Of the three local stations I listen to regularly over the air, two make their internet streams available worldwide and even mention that every couple of hours. The third allows streaming from anywhere in the U.S. I don't think any of our area broadcasters limit internet listening to New Hampshire/Vermont only.

 

[davideduardo]

I doubt that the small businesses in Chelan are paying a premium for their spots to be broadcast over the net to a global audience.

They likely don't care as they, also likely, don't get significant out of market streaming. The artist / label fees only accumulate based on the number of listeners to each song play.

Also, I assume that KOZI must pay song royalties just like the other stations.

Yes, nobody can avoid it.

It’s interesting that KOZI can afford these costs, yet a company like Audacy with deep pockets can’t.

The big stations are attractive out of the home markets and get lots of streaming and can sell stream-only ads. Little ones, not so much.