Structure Height | 487.7 m (1600 ft.) | |
| Overall Height Above Ground | 487.7 m (1600 ft.) | |
| Overall Height AMSL | 755.9 m (2479 ft.) | |
| Structure Type | Guyed Tower | |
| Owner | Radio Training Network, Inc. | |
| ©2023 Cavell Mertz & Associates, Inc. |
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93.3 tower destroyed
- Thread starter RadioRonnie285
- Start date
So, RTN is the owner and will be on the hook for the rebuild. A couple of questions
1. Has anybody heard if they intend to rebuild the full 1600' tower?
2. What does a new 1600' tower install cost?
3. Did the transmitter make it or does it have to be replaced too?
There are a lot of variables, starting with the required wind load capacity in the area where the tower is built. A 1,600 foot tower in Columbus OH will require less wind load capacity than one in Miami, FL. And the earth where the anchors and base will go varies from very deep soil to clay to different kinds of rock, requiring different kinds of anchors. Depending on where the tower is made will affect shipping, and local weather will affect construction costs (if it rains or storms a lot, it takes more time and costs go up, for example).
In this case, the base and anchors may be usable if the stress of the fall did not displace them.
But several articles online indicate a 2,000 foot tower would be in the $1.8 million to as much as $4 million range and 1,000 feet would average $1 million, plus or minus 20%. So a guess at a brand new 1,600 foot tower using existing bases would be around $1 to $1.2 million.
The biggest concern would be increased insurance costs, considering that the properly wind-load rated one that fell did not make it, meaning a higher capacity structure may be needed to get insurance, increasing construction costs for the new one to the high end.
These are very rough estimates, to be sure.
A friend who was called in to work on rebuilding a station that lost its FM tower in a 60's era hurricane that hit the Gulf of Mexico told me about the results of the insurance investigation: the tower had been hit above the 100 foot level by a cow!
The average cow is around 1,500 lbs and would be like having a flying car hit the tower.
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These docs are from the STA application. One shows the contours and the other is a statement from WVFJ.
enterpriseefiling.fcc.gov
Draft Copy « Licensing and Management System « FCC
Licensing and Management System
Then there's permitting for the new tower with the county and the FAA (they like to treat rebuilds as "New") and any NIMBYs waiting in the bushes.
Last broadcast on that station before it went off: “I gotta go. We got cows”
I was hired to replace Frank McLamore, as the local engineer at WVFJ in 1998 when the Greenville tower was at 1350 feet. I have first hand knowledge.
The tower took 1.5 years to construct! Ken (???) had built other tall towers and had loads of experience but lost a wench and a couple of crews over the course of this project. They also had an anchor to turn which lead to numerous engineering and construction delays.
By the time I arrived the tower construction was going smoothly and it topped out a few weeks later. There were no issues with tower plumb or any other problems that I was aware of. The only complaint was RTN was too cheap to put in an elevator. It was a loooong climb to 1600 feet!
I spent a very miserable Christmas there one year due to an antenna burn. In those days they had only one operational antenna. Soon thereafter, there was an aux antenna.
There is no hope for a structure like this when faced with a direct hit from a F3 tornado! I watched Brad Nitz at Channel 2 track this storm directly over the site in Greenville. (BTW...Nitz did an excellent job tracking this storm! The radar technology is stunning on this storm...debris field all the way from Alabama to Ga.!)
I join with HGR1260 in praising the Cox engineering staff for getting WVFJ back on the air so quickly. The signal is actually better in some parts of town!
My guess is RTN will make a deal with Cox and remain on the Newnan tower with a dedicated antenna and as much power as they can get. The original tower cost $1.2M if memory serves.
The Bear, 92.5, with the tower site in Gay, Ga., was missed by only a mile or so. WEKS was off the air for a couple of days due to the mangled power grid.
The tower took 1.5 years to construct! Ken (???) had built other tall towers and had loads of experience but lost a wench and a couple of crews over the course of this project. They also had an anchor to turn which lead to numerous engineering and construction delays.
By the time I arrived the tower construction was going smoothly and it topped out a few weeks later. There were no issues with tower plumb or any other problems that I was aware of. The only complaint was RTN was too cheap to put in an elevator. It was a loooong climb to 1600 feet!
I spent a very miserable Christmas there one year due to an antenna burn. In those days they had only one operational antenna. Soon thereafter, there was an aux antenna.
There is no hope for a structure like this when faced with a direct hit from a F3 tornado! I watched Brad Nitz at Channel 2 track this storm directly over the site in Greenville. (BTW...Nitz did an excellent job tracking this storm! The radar technology is stunning on this storm...debris field all the way from Alabama to Ga.!)
I join with HGR1260 in praising the Cox engineering staff for getting WVFJ back on the air so quickly. The signal is actually better in some parts of town!
My guess is RTN will make a deal with Cox and remain on the Newnan tower with a dedicated antenna and as much power as they can get. The original tower cost $1.2M if memory serves.
The Bear, 92.5, with the tower site in Gay, Ga., was missed by only a mile or so. WEKS was off the air for a couple of days due to the mangled power grid.
WVFJ is not only short spaced to WALR at the WALR Aux site, it’s also short spaced to WZGC so no way the station can operate there except temporarily. The licensed site where the tower went down is the closest point to Atlanta the station can operate as a Class C1. RTN is a professional financially stable organization operated by reputable people. I’m sure the tower was well insured and it should be noted the wealthy Watkins family of Atlanta are key financial supporters and officers of RTN so they’ll make certain their Atlanta area signal is returned.
Could they go C2 or C3 on another stick. Im just guessing because best case scenario until the year plus time it will take to rebuild.
You're correct...forgot all about 92.9. That tower, along with the iheart tower adjacent are the only tall towers in the area.
Would it make sense to rebuild? They were very disappointed with the result when the new tower went live. Only after adding the translator signals has 93.3 got above a 1 share.
They should take the $1.2M and invest in streaming and programming.
Is the station even worth $1.2M?
I know I remember a few years ago that this last upgrade would provide a clear signal across Atlanta according the DJs but this was not the case. I live in southeast metro and could not get a consistant hd signal but it was pretty good. They were all we had for the format until the Fish started. A lot of signal was strongest where the Fish and K Love struggle on the southwest suburbs down to Columbus. Columbus also has Klove but some of the counties with strong WVFJ coverage do not have an option for the format on a clear signal due to 104.7 and 106.7's limitations by being rimshots from northeast of Atlanta. To RTN I,m sure its worth 1.2 million because they are trying to blanket Georgia like they have done in a huge part of Florida. But Klove might be done in Georgia because almost the entire population has the ability to listen. Then again the youth dont listen to radio over the air
Draft Copy « Licensing and Management System « FCC
Licensing and Management System
Looking at the attachments, it looks like there are a few short spacing issues at the STA site. At 400 watts, I guess with good receiving antennas or other delivery, they can feed the translators.
That's the problem with the IF spacing requirements and second and third adjacent requirements. Going from Class A to C0 to Class C0 to C only gets you about 12 miles for second and third adjacent. Many radios still have problems with 53 and 54 channel spacing, but not that many with second adjacent and even less third adjacent.
Looks like it's little more than a translator at 400 watts.
Good to see your likes, HGR1290! Haven't heard from you in a while.
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But a translator at 1200 feet HAAT!Draft Copy « Licensing and Management System « FCC
Licensing and Management System
Looking at the attachments, it looks like there are a few short spacing issues at the STA site. At 400 watts, I guess with good receiving antennas or other delivery, they can feed the translators.
That's the problem with the IF spacing requirements and second and third adjacent requirements. Going from Class A to C0 to Class C0 to C only gets you about 12 miles for second and third adjacent. Many radios still have problems with 53 and 54 channel spacing, but not that many with second adjacent and even less third adjacent.
Looks like it's little more than a translator at 400 watts.
Good to see your likes, HGR1290! Haven't heard from you in a while.
Newnan is super important for soccer mom demos and the STA is a better signal! I'm sure there is a measurable difference in most of the market. The STA site achieves full stereo quieting with little multipath in a large part of the potential listening areas for this format.
Today's radios work with very weak signals so it is hard to tell the difference unless you have a field strength meter. My tuner has a SS meter so I see the multiparth and relative signal strength.
What do you think WVFJ is worth? I know RTN makes money with it but how much?
How much money could you borrow to buy it?
Does a radio signal that does not fully cover the desired demos in a market worth building a 1600 foot stick for?
WVFJ does not serve a "radio market". Listener supported stations serve "coverage area population". The licensed signal covers 1.9 million potential contributors.
Of course it is worth building as tall a stick as possible as long as the height adds prospective listeners. The "desired demos" are people who might send money. Nielsen does not measure that, and artificial and contrived "market boundaries" are of zero importance.
I don't see any rule that would forbid them getting an Auxiliary at the STA site, which would only prohibit extension of the 60 dBu contour, without regard to distance separation requirements, rather than translator like restrictions. I don't know if there have been interference complaints in such cases which caused auxiliaries to be ordered off the air.
How many people in the demo utilizing a downgraded site versus licensed site?
It would be interesting to see the coverage circles and pop counts from less tall towers closer to the market.
Many companies have sold off their vertical real estate. (Some sold ALL their real estate!)
Did the site have other income? You don't need 1600 feet for cellular.
The strobes were a pain and expensive to maintain. I had tower guys walk away when they saw a 1600 foot climb with no elevator. Try lugging a 50 pound transformer and tools in a bag 1600 feet straight up!
It does boil down to cost for donated dollars. I suspect a tall tower, in 2023, may not be a best use of money.
RTN is a well run organization and will make the correct decision.
Again I will mention that religious stations and many non-commercial ones of other kinds as well don't deal in markets. Markets are for, naturally, "marketers", who are selling stuff. Religious stations are simply looking for people, not markets.
Someone in the Atlanta MSA or someone in a non metro county are both just as important to them.
For example, EMF seems to use a formula based on population covered to establish purchase prices for stations... not market revenues or "metro coverage".
Its listener-supported status notwithstanding, WVFJ does sell advertising in the form of 30-second spots, with copy restrictions based on the FCC's underwriting rules. Of course, the station does not get business from agencies, which buy defined markets. But as it does with donations, a larger coverage area provides sales with greater potential.
I have an RTN sales booklet that states, "As a non-profit radio ministry, our funds are provided through gifts from individual listeners and businesses." I doubt businesses that advertise on WVFJ consider their spending as a gift.
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It is however tax deductible.. so thats a quasi gift, in a way
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