But one random station in Kansas City playing it (occasionally? rarely? As part of special programs?) doesn’t mean it’s not “lost” under the basic principles. Compared to a plethora of 80s songs, it for darn sure is lost. Maybe not You Light Up My Life lost, but it’s not exactly a staple.
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Why are big hits "lost?"
- Thread starter tall_guy1
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No, there isn't a "problem" with people not wanting to be surveyed. It just costs money to get people to take a lengthy or ongoing survey.
In any case, the results are valid for radio stations and that is because the same characteristics that are found in a radio station or audio streaming research candidate are found in those who would participate in Nielsen radio and audio surveys.
Most research of any value today includes significant compensation in exchange for participation. Families that participate in the Nielsen PPM surveys earn incentive credits which can give them very nice items and compensation. Diarykeepers get some money and are made to feel "important" by contributing to the success of the stations they listen to. Station research pays nice money (anywhere from $50 to $150 for participation in cash or nice gift cards) for music tests and perceptual research.
In both station "private" research and ratings research, skilled and competent recruiters seek out respondents who meet the specifications of project design.
Going back to when we started doing call-out in the mid-70's and AMTs (Auditorium Music Tests) and in the early 80's and focus groups or one-on-ones in the same era, it takes a lot of work to design the sample specifications and to recruit conforming candidates for participation. In addition to a reward for being a respondent, internal station research may pay as much as $100 to $150 per respondent to the recruiter to find the "right" people for a test.
Between respondent incentives and recruiter costs, a lot of money goes into station research to guarantee that the right people participate. In ratings, while everything is done in-house by Nielsen, the costs are the same or greater to insure a representative sample (diary) or accurate panel (meter).
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It's just not true. At least not in CHR, Country, or Urban formats. As I said, it's like telling a station GM that he shouldn't waste his time interacting with the mayor or other local politicians. Yes the local politicians are greasy, but they also control the zoning laws that could affect your tower or other as aspects of station operations.
This may be true in your format, but not mine.
While any station playing currents wants to get the latest releases and wants acceptable relationships with labels, the value of that today is vastly less than it was 10, 20, 30 years ago.
Except for getting promotional releases, there is not a lot the label does for stations today. And that is particularly true if the station is not in a "media center" like LA or NYC.
Concert tickets for give-aways and the like are now mostly handled by the venues and the ticket agents, not the label. I've seen cases where an artist's label did not even get staff tickets for a show!
I talked over the weekend with a friend at a Churban in a very big market, and asked him about this very subject. Most of the promotional activities he does are coordinated with artist management, and the label does very little.
My point is that spending a lot of time with record reps is a waste of resources. Most promoters, unless they are national or regional heads of promotion, have no influence with artists or with "things" to use in station promotion.
It might have left rotation, but I heard it last year on the station fairly regularly. I think that was also true with the look of love by abc (though "be near me" is still in rotation.)
This thread is all over the place. The truth is every station is different. You have to study your competitors and figure out how to beat them. This is the science of radio programming today. That said, it takes veteran programmers who know what they are doing. But even that will sometimes lead to lousy decisions. Programmers are human and they make mistakes.
I just wish stations had more "soul" to them, like kckc and winc do in their respective formats.
Stations program the songs their listeners have scored the highest on music tests. Whatever each station plays is what their core listeners want them to play.
It works for some stations, yet some stations seem to underperform even with a tested/"safe" playlist (audacy, iheart, ect). In those cases, maybe being a bit more eclectic might not hurt. Kenz in salt lake city has kind of an edm/dance lean to its chr format.
To be honest, the value of a spin on OTA radio is vastly less than it was then too. That's no excuse not to do one's job.
My point is that it's part of the job. Too may radio people lock themselves in the station, never interacting with anyone, including the audience, and then wonder why no one listens. A station is only as important as it makes itself. Otherwise, they might as well sell insurance.
It may not help either. You don't need to do crack to know it's bad for you.
I think it would be kind of cool to ever get to hear what a dj's all time favorite songs are. I know on mix 93.3 dave o has spun the song lucky by britney spears and has commented its an obscure song but one of his favorites.
That's the kind of thing that's better handled on social media.
That's true in any mature industry. Market leaders tend to remain market leaders. To use an analogy:
Chrysler has been the smallest of the "Big 3" automakers for almost 100 years (Chrysler wasn't formed until 1925, and probably wasn't a "Big 3" automaker until they merged with Dodge Bros. in 1928).
Why hasn't Chrysler been able to become #1? Well, I don't know for sure. But it is safe to assume Chrysler does market research to determine what cars to pursue and what sorts of features are important to car buyers.
How did Toyota become #1 in the US market? A relentless march to quality combined with a decent price. A 2021 study of the longest lasting used cars by iSeeCars found 6 of the top 10 were Toyota models, by the benchmark of exceeding 200k miles on the odometer.
GM had 3 of the top 10, Ford had 1, Chrysler had 0.
I don't find that a common PD trait except when a cluster makes one PD in charge of three or four formats. No time to do that.
And my counterpoint is that record promoters don't help relate to the audience, they don't help to play the songs listeners want to hear, don't generally have any useful input. They are messengers who simply have been programmed to say, over and over, "play my record". They cite MediaBase and streaming data they have been fed, but don't bring any new research that helps understand who likes a song and why. They may be good for a free lunch or dinner if you are in a big enough market, but I can count on my fingers the promotion people I'd like to spend two hours with... and usually they are people who also have A&R and concert experience.
For example, I had a friend who was the head of Caribbean promotion for a Spanish label. He was entertaining to chat with, full of experiences in radio and music in Spain and an accomplished Flamenco musician. So I met with him often. One time, over lunch, he wanted to give me an exclusive on a new artist from Spain who was going to be released in the Americas in a few weeks and who would come to the station before a TV show if we could pre-promote his song. The guy's name was Julio Iglesias.
I can cite several other cases like that, but with artists you likely don't know like Juan Luis Guerra, Sandro and Juanes. All through friendships that went beyond business... and only a few such notable ones in the 59 years I have been involved in programming decisions.
But the average promoter can't and won't give you things that help build the music image of your station.
And, as I have said, about half the new consumer product launches in the US fail... even from P&G and Lever... even with New Coke... even the Edsel*.
* Trick citation as the Edsel was totally unresearched.
That's OK. No one forces you to do what they say. Listen, say thanks for the call, and go back to programming Selector.
When we are on MusicMaster (my choice going back about 35 years) or Selector (just as good,) we don't like to be distracted for promo calls. Nearly everyone I know has days and times for calls to avoid interruptions.
I'll give a cellular number to be used if we are doing a promotion, but with the understanding it is not to be used for promo calls at the risk of having songs dropped. That works when the understanding is clear.
Not all promotion people went to the Joe Isgro School of Promotion and Enforcement Techniques. Some are lovely, great individuals, despite the fact that their job is to try to get you to do things you don't want to do (some songs are automatic and need no promotion. The rest are not so easy to "bring home").
Some are the source of a call from the lobby, "David, go out the back way for coffee. Feaky Frank from BMG is coming in the door...".
That's all it takes. Just schedule a day & time for music calls. It's not rocket science. Once again, this is part of the job, and everyone knows it. I have never had anyone show up unannounced.
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Agreed. I think that's part of the issue with radio these days. - Daryl
Agreed. I think that's part of the issue with radio these days. - Daryl
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