They have. There's a higher percentage of Hispanics with smartphones than non-Hispanic whites.
None. Translated to digital, that is "0".
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KKDZ 1250 at new transmitter site
- Thread starter xmtrland
- Start date
Some Hispanics (mostly Salvadorans) I know have moved on from radio completely, be it FM or AM, as FM does not supply their needs. They listen to music from Central America on Pandora and Spotify. Some of them probably listen to the FM music stations for pop and hip-hop now and then.
A lot of younger immigrants still like music from their mother cultures. Every gas station I've been in that has a Punjabi or South Asian cashier has South Asian music from Pandora or Spotify. I have yet to hear, in any deli or gas station (nearly all run by Punjabis here in SKC) any FM radio station playing in the background, and there is always music playing in the background.
They're bypassing radio altogether.
But the fact remains that KKDZ went Desi about 5 years ago, and they're still on the air. They are still apparently in business. Why do you think that is? And if you were in their shoes, would you opt for a transmitter site that doesn't cover the target population well, or one that does?
That's exactly what I was saying. Seattle/Tacoma is one large market with 62 stations. There are a lot of FM radio choices, then add-in streaming to the smartphones, and the need to hear popular Hispanic music via some local AM station is almost nil.
Again, I rest my case.
Welcome to the world of consumers under 50. Doesn't matter what ethnicity.
Depends on their source of funding. As I mentioned of an example prior; there are well healed business people in the community who might be willing to fund a radio station as a way to give back to their local ethnic community. The track record for such an investment usually starts out with lot's anecdotal interest and goodwill, followed a year or two later by community apathy. Like anything with radio, there is no opportunity for growing the audience, as today's youth consume music and entertainment from streaming/phones. Eventually like any investment, the juice isn't worth the squeeze, and another derelict AM station goes silent.
I wouldn't be in their shoes. That's why I've liquidated all my radio properties while I still could.
A business-news station is completely different from a music station on AM. Business-news is a lot like a spoken word radio sports play. The assumption by advertisers is any listeners are adult businesspersons, or those with interest in investing. Just like sports, it's a sought after demographic not reliant on ratings.
The other difference is quality as it relates to perception and reality. If you proposed doing music on AM to an ad agency buyer, their response would be predictable: 'Nobody listens to music on AM, they stream music on their phones'. Which would be a partially accurate reaction, aside from missing the fact that music listeners over 35 still spend a lot of time on FM radio.
About as successful as I would be targeting an English language audience of a similar demographic. If, in the case of 1250 targeting the South Asian community, that means a viable station, I think it should exist. If for instance your FM is #1 in Hispanics on the worst signal in the market, what would be the point of improving the signal? It serves the population it needs to.
Even if the majority of that community gets their news and entertainment from their phones? Remember, Asia has been WAY ahead of the U.S. in relying on smartphones for all things of use. Can't disagree with you more that somehow the terrible quality of an AM station would be more appealing. Especially true for anyone under 50.
I'd rather go to battle with a limited FM signal, than a terrible-sounding AM signal any day. KUOW is a great example. To many South, East, and West of downtown Seattle, KUOW doesn't have a great signal as compared with Cougar or W. Tiger. But that doesn't seem to matter, because KUOW does very well.
No young people listen to AM, period. So, there goes any future growth. Now add in the stark, noticeably inferior audio quality of an AM station, and I can't think of any example that an audience would find appealing. As I mentioned prior; sure there may well be someone who thinks owning a derelict AM station is a way to give back to the community, but would probably change their mind when having to struggle for advertising dollars, or they eventually run out of money.
I overestimated that one. The KBNP(Business News Portland)call letters were changed on December 27, 1988, just over 34 years ago.
I have to disagree with you here. Plenty of young people listen to AM. Surely AM isn’t on the same playing field as FM, but I think it’s hyperbole to say that nobody listens. I regularly listen to 710 and 1000. And as I’ve mentioned before, the audio quality on these stations is perfectly acceptable with a great signal that blankets the northwest. The audio quality certainly isn’t any worse than trying to stream your content through a low quality iPhone speakers.
Because I can’t just use myself as an example, I also personally know people around my age who listen to sports talk on the AM dial and think nothing of it. I also know some folks who listen to foreign language talk on the AM band because that’s where they can get it.
All in all, AM isn’t what it used to be and you certainly won’t have great ratings by putting a CHR music format on the AM band, but there is still some use for AM in general.
If there is no use for any foreign language programming on AM, stations like KNTS 1680 should have been shut down ages ago. Somehow, that station has an appraised value of over $500,000 (not sure how).
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National ratings and research don't indicate that is the case on a wider scale, other than your anecdotal observations.
I didn't say nobody listens. I said on average, nobody under 50 intentionally listens to AM.
Believe for this discussion we were talking about music on an AM station. Voice grade/audio bandwidth is acceptable. Not for music.
Most young people and people who stream in a portable environment wear these devices called Ear Buds. They're like headphones, but they insert into your ear canal. Much better quality. Other's use Apple Car Play, which allows for using the entertainment system in the vehicle.
Again, voice grade talk and sports. Not music.
Sure, like Travelers Information Service.
Anyone who would pay that kind of money for an Xpanded band station would be a fool. I suspect that's what the owner claims it's worth, not a broker who would have to justify that value.
Compared to a decent set of Sony headphones, earbuds mostly sound like crap.
Also, if it's like the South Asian border blasters in Blaine, KKDZ might have some talk on it. The border blasters are like full service stations -- music, talk, etc. I haven't listened enough to KKDZ to know if they run similar programming during the day. Overnights they run similar Sikh programming (prayers/chants/Sikh music).
I guess we'll see how long they last on the AM band.
Also, if it's like the South Asian border blasters in Blaine, KKDZ might have some talk on it. The border blasters are like full service stations -- music, talk, etc. I haven't listened enough to KKDZ to know if they run similar programming during the day. Overnights they run similar Sikh programming (prayers/chants/Sikh music).
I guess we'll see how long they last on the AM band.
Provided they were able to find potentially popular talk programming that wasn't already on a station in the Seattle/Tacoma market.
When you're living under a roof of 61 other signals, it might be tough to find programming that isn't already on another station.
That's funny. The term 'border blaster' and KKDZ in the same sentence. Which of these things is not like the other?
Hey, if they can sell airtime to different cultural groups, good for them. But you're right; will selling it generate enough to keep the lights on long term, considering the limited audience and limited signal?
Right now I'm hearing talk in Punjabi on KKDZ, their signal is solid and readable, but weaker here northern SKC than it was before the move. A woman talking at length about something, and I just heard a string of 3-4 commercials, at least 2 of them with metro area (253 area code) phone numbers. Also music, both 'classical' Indian sounding and the modern pop/hip-hop Punjabi stuff you hear on KVRI earlier at night.
Maybe with these ethnic broadcasters it's more like the sports betting and other stations (business station discussed upthread); the ethnic businesses may use the ethnic broadcasters because of the potential reach to that ethnic community.
I mean, is an Indian market or restaurant, or other local business catering to the Indian Subcontinent community, going to advertise in the Punjabi or Hindi language on an FM station that broadcasts only in English, like KIRO-FM or KQMV?
Given your logic, why are the majority of ethnic stations in this country on AM? I can only think of two FM stations in this country in languages other than English or Spanish, and they're both in large California markets. Given what you said above, is really nobody listening to these stations? I have no idea how long KKDZ can sustain its current business model, you would have a better idea about that than I, but as they've been on the air for about eight years now, they must be making at least enough to stay on the air.
Can't speak to all, but there are various situations and ethnicity's. Some programming in a group are essentially used to discourage market interlopers, with no expectation of revenue. Depending on the language, some stations rent their airtime to ethnic groups willing to pay for it (block programming).
While, as I mentioned prior; some might be owned by a local well healed ethnic community member who wants to give back to their community but likely, that scenario isn't long term.
I don't know the specifics of KKDZ either. They obviously have been able to at least keep the lights on. But as anywhere; AM is facing an increasing-speed decline. As AM listeners age-out (aka die), no new ones are coming in. That in itself is unsustainable as a business. And with the ubiquitous use of smartphones for music and entertainment, consumers of Hispanic media no longer need to put up with crappy AM quality.
It would be pretty much impossible to sustain a radio business based on a number of Indian restaurants that can be counted on one hand. Besides, most restaurants have moved advertising to where people go looking for restaurant reviews or menus: Facebook, Yelp, Grub Hub, Foursquare, Open Table, Tripadvisor, Zagat, etc.
Oh, and restaurants are the worst payers for advertising on radio. You have about a 50% chance of getting paid for spots aired in any given month. They know it costs you more to collect on the debt, than what's owed. Nine times out of ten you end up (pardon the pun) eating it. Eating bad debt won't pay the lease. loans, or power bill.
There are more Indian owned businesses than just Indian restaurants. I have heard other businesses advertising during the mornings on KVRI (when it comes in), from insurance to attorneys specializing in immigration, to plumbers, etc. Indian restaurants came to mind because I heard two advertisements on KKDZ some time before posting the post, one was a restaurant and another seemed to be an Indian market, of which there are quite a few in SKC.
Everything you said about these ethnic businesses, that their ads and info can be found online, could apply to EVERY business that advertises on radio. Yet that doesn't stop companies from advertising on radio.
And I still think there may be a parallel with the sports betting stations, the business stations that you mentioned upthread or in other threads. Some advertisers are catering to a certain potential clientele, where the ratings are secondary to the target demo.
I doubt that any Subcontinent business is going to place ads in Punjabi on KQMV or KIRO-FM any time soon. Same thing with ads in Spanish.
Many of the AMs doing Spanish and other languages have translators. They keep the AM to allow the translator to run. Since many ethnic communities are geographically centralized, a translator does well in many cases.
I could make money with a translator in Katy, TX, called by many "Katyzuela" due to the high number of Venezuelans. Since Venezuelan language usage, music and culture is very different from that of Mexico, a separate format could be very successful.
Here in Houston we have four FM translators targeting our large South Asian population. Two translators have origination on an AM station while the other two are fed by FM HD subchannels. All the translators are located in the southwest quadrant of the market where most of the South Asian community is located. Plenty of advertising on all four stations from a huge variety of businesses.
All these stations are a mix of English and South Asian languages, so easy to follow along.
I know it’s off topic for the Seattle board, but do you have any numbers for the Venezuelan population in metro Houston? Curious if there has been any initiative to target that market segment.
My daughter does visa applications for legally migrating refugees from Venezuela, particularly the musicians who were in Gustavo Dudamel's "El Sistema" youth orchestras. She says the local community says there may be between 40,000 and 60,000 Venezuelans, most concentrated around Katy. But she cautions me in that there is no official count and about half, in her estimation, are not here with papers.
It has not yet become a potential for a translator, but it should be soon as many are well educated, professionals and managerial level people who are already starting businesses.
Except that those educated professionals and managerial folks are already using their phones for music and entertainment.
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