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102.7 HD2 is off the air

I just checked while in my car. When tuning to 102.7 there is only an HD1. Audacy left HD2 and HD3 on 92.3 and HD2 on 94.7.

I forgot to check if 101.1 HD3 is on (they would not likely kill 101.1 HD2 as it is WCBS 880).

Does this look like it is permanent? 102.7 HD2 helps as WBGO 88.3 barely reaches me even with a directional FM antenna in my attic and forget it in the car. Perhaps they are protecting 88.1 WCWP.
 
101.1 HD3 is still on. That is not being fed by Audacy so it will probably stay.
Maybe. Remember that's Scott Shannon's True Oldies Channel. Scott retired back in December. So CBS-FM may have cut a special deal with him that accomplished two things: kept their morning star happy, and provided an alternative music source to placate the oldies listeners who'd aged out of the demo but had been loyal to the "old" CBS-FM. With Scott gone and Audacy in deep sh!t, I'd bet on TOC and HD3 evaporating from 101.1 as soon as the deal comes up for renewal.

Also, djl above mentioned WCBS-AM (News 880) on HD2. That's a channel Audacy could eliminate to cut costs with little or no pain. 880 can be picked up in virtually any location in the tri-state area (excepting maybe midtown Manhattan) on a listener's fillings. (True story: as a teen, I had a side hustle installing P.A. systems in small businesses in eastern Queens and western Nassau County. I did one in Floral Park where I ran a cable across an alleyway between two buildings that fed the remote speakers. When the P.A. mic was off, WCBS's signal was strong enough to induce on that cable and backfeed into the amp, providing free background programming in the business. I offered to install a trap on the line, but turns out they liked having it.)
 
... WCBS-AM (News 880) on HD2. That's a channel Audacy could eliminate to cut costs with little or no pain. 880 can be picked up in virtually any location in the tri-state area
The cost to broadcast WCBS AM on HD2 is minimal, since it is just a simulcast, not original programming. Also, let's not forget that a growing number of people won't listen to anything that is on AM. And in many locations, even a strong signal like WCBS can be noisy. Perhaps that is why IHeart is still simulcasting WOR on HD2, even though they eliminated most of their locally programmed HD2 channels.
The couple of times I sampled the True Oldies Channel, there were some commercials. That seems to be a good reason to believe it will stay, at least for a while. Perhaps (just a guess), the custom programmed currently commercial free Alt 92.3 HD2 will either need to find a sponsor (like New York's Country 94.7 HD2), carry national shows, or be shut down.
 
The cost to broadcast WCBS AM on HD2 is minimal, since it is just a simulcast, not original programming. Also, let's not forget that a growing number of people won't listen to anything that is on AM. And in many locations, even a strong signal like WCBS can be noisy. Perhaps that is why IHeart is still simulcasting WOR on HD2, even though they eliminated most of their locally programmed HD2 channels.
The couple of times I sampled the True Oldies Channel, there were some commercials. That seems to be a good reason to believe it will stay, at least for a while. Perhaps (just a guess), the custom programmed currently commercial free Alt 92.3 HD2 will either need to find a sponsor (like New York's Country 94.7 HD2), carry national shows, or be shut down.
I don't deny that a spoken-word simulcast has minimal additional costs, but from what I've read, the big nut is the cost to [the successor company to] Ibiquity for licensing fees. I don't know how much that is. But if it's enough, the cost saving from eliminating WCBS-HD2 and TOC-HD3 may exceed the revenue from a handful of spots on TOC. HD2 doesn't carry any additional spots that aren't already airing on AM. So doesn't it really comes down to (a) how much unduplicated additional listening the HD2 simulcast adds, and (b) whether those listeners would migrate back to AM if HD2 wasn't there anymore, or go somewhere else.
 
I wonder whether the ethnic stations that lease time on local HD channels are finding it to be worthwhile. Three of them broadcast in Russian, one provides Caribbean programming, and another focuses on the area's Jewish community.
Over the past few years, there have been others. They generally did not last very long. But the Russian HD stations have been on for a few years.
Which station on HD is non-Russian and Jewish????I am an Orthodox Jew and am not aware of any on HD radio.
 
Simulcasting company-owned AM stations is one if the best uses of HD subchannels. The cost of doing so is minimal, and the sound quality is vastly better on the subchannel than on AM.
 
Simulcasting company-owned AM stations is one if the best uses of HD subchannels. The cost of doing so is minimal, and the sound quality is vastly better on the subchannel than on AM.
That's great if there are actually additional listeners to the HD2 that wouldn't tune into the AM if the simulcast got turned off tonight.

Is there single-line reporting available for a situation like WCBS-AM and FM/HD2? Because if there is, those of us not connected to Audacy will never know how large or small the incremental audience is. Only if the HD2 (or -3 or -4) reports on a separate line can the hoi polloi see how much extra share the HD2 generates for WCBS.

Just using HD2 to simulcast 880 is a waste of money if that incremental audience is largely vaporware. There's been 20 years to figure out HD, and the vast majority of non-broadcasters/non-geeks couldn't care less. Ain't. Gonna. Get. Better.
 
WVIP comes from Westchester and the HD is too weak on Long Island
The signal may be weak in many places. But it is broadcast from the same tower in the Bronx as WFUV 90.7, and WVBN 103.9 (formerly WFAS FM).
Despite WVIP's signal not being all that great, they have managed to lease all 3 of their subchannels. At least one is feeding a translator. They seem to be getting their money's worth from HD Radio.
 
Just using HD2 to simulcast 880 is a waste of money if that incremental audience is largely vaporware. There's been 20 years to figure out HD, and the vast majority of non-broadcasters/non-geeks couldn't care less. Ain't. Gonna. Get. Better.
As has been mentioned, the cost of simulcasting an AM station on HD is small. Broadcasters pay a one time fee for broadcasting on HD. I think there may also be a very small additional charge for using subchannels.
I read that over 50% of new cars now come equipped with HD radio. So it is just starting to become ubiquitous. And I think the portion of people streaming while driving tends to be exaggerated.
And simulcasting on HD is not just about attracting additional listeners. TSL could improve at least a little, as one would tend to listen longer to a more pleasant sounding signal.
 
Just using HD2 to simulcast 880 is a waste of money if that incremental audience is largely vaporware. There's been 20 years to figure out HD, and the vast majority of non-broadcasters/non-geeks couldn't care less. Ain't. Gonna. Get. Better.

You sound angry. Some cars don't even have AM radios any more. If just one meter carrying driver listens to the AM simulcast on its HD subchannel then that makes it worth doing.

Personally, I only listen to WCBS on 101.1-HD2. If I had to listen to to the AM signal I'd spend a lot less time with it, probably almost no time at all. I realize in in a small minority of people who use HD like that, but the number of people who do is not zero.
 
Personally, I only listen to WCBS on 101.1-HD2. If I had to listen to to the AM signal I'd spend a lot less time with it, probably almost no time at all. I realize in in a small minority of people who use HD like that, but the number of people who do is not zero.
It's very non-zero in the specific case of 880.

The AM signal from High Island gets killed on the upper west side of Manhattan by bad ground conductivity. I stayed near Penn Station a few weeks ago and the difference between 880 and most of the New Jersey AM signals was dramatic, and it just gets worse as you move north.

101.1-HD is pretty much the only way to hear WCBS in a car on the West Side Highway, just as 102.7-HD was the only way to get a usable WINS signal in Rockland County and parts of North Jersey before the move to 92.3.
 
You sound angry. Some cars don't even have AM radios any more. If just one meter carrying driver listens to the AM simulcast on its HD subchannel then that makes it worth doing.

Personally, I only listen to WCBS on 101.1-HD2. If I had to listen to to the AM signal I'd spend a lot less time with it, probably almost no time at all. I realize in in a small minority of people who use HD like that, but the number of people who do is not zero.
I'm not angry, at least not about this topic. Just frustrated. Because, as I wrote, it's been over 20 years and HD has had more-that-ample time to become mainstream, and yet the vast majority of listeners either (a) still don't know it exists, (b) don't understand what it is and how to use it, or (c) don't give a rat's ass. In those same two decades, most people have been exposed to satellite radio and streaming audio, whether or not they've decided to sign up with Sirius or Spotify. Both technologies have their own problems, as do old-fashioned AM and FM analog, but HD is largely a failure in the marketplace of listeners. That's just facing reality.

The rational thing to have done, which I believe is still possible, is to completely turn off HD as of some date certain (like, let's say, 12/31/23), and eliminate all backdoor stations (translators for HD sidebands). Then re-license all translators (except those that provide fill-in for existing analog signals within their protected contours) for the exclusive purpose of migrating in-market AM stations somewhere onto FM. Give priority to the smaller, signal-challenged stations, but require the AM's to leave the air after a transition period, maybe 6 months from the date their translator goes live. And limit how many of these situations any one owner can take advantage of - let's say two - with all additional stations they own having to be de-licensed and sunsetted.

Where there are AM-FM simulcasts, similarly impose a drop-dead date for those AM's to sunset. And whoever's left on AM gets to choose from a toolkit of viability options: boost power, apply to change frequency allocation, alter or eliminate directional restrictions, some combination of all of those, whatever it takes for a station to be viable and for the mess to be cleaned up. Which will be more doable when most of the other signals are gone.

Or ... offer owners a one-time tax writeoff for taking their remaining station(s) off the air permanently. I'll bet most of them would grab that opportunity. But one way or the other, the mess we're in has to be remedied if terrestrial broadcasting is still going to be viable ten or twenty years from now. But the current HD mess just isn't the answer, and it sounds like the big owners are finally figuring that out.

All this could have been predicted a quarter century ago, and most of it could have been avoided. The one "black swan" event was, IMO, how much the AM noise floor deteriorated due all the 21st century technology that has been allowed to stomp all over it by the government agency that was charged with regulating exactly that.)

Nope, not angry, though maybe I shouldn't start typing before I've had any coffee. :eek:
 
It's very non-zero in the specific case of 880.

The AM signal from High Island gets killed on the upper west side of Manhattan by bad ground conductivity. I stayed near Penn Station a few weeks ago and the difference between 880 and most of the New Jersey AM signals was dramatic, and it just gets worse as you move north.

101.1-HD is pretty much the only way to hear WCBS in a car on the West Side Highway, just as 102.7-HD was the only way to get a usable WINS signal in Rockland County and parts of North Jersey before the move to 92.3.
Scott, show me actual listener numbers for WCBS-FM HD2. Show me how much having that "station within a station" actually adds to their share or cume. I don't deny WCBS's signal problems in Manhattan - hell, I used to live on the UWS, I could roll a bowling ball and hit Riverside Park - I just don't have reason to believe 101.1 HD2 adds that much to the picture. More likely that a listener who wants WCBS in that area is streaming it from their smart speaker (at home) or smart phone (in car) than that they're pulling it in via HD. Show me I'm wrong, my friend.
 
Looks like they are taking all the music HD2's off the radio and going App only using 'smartstreams' which will not work on any outside player. Still free for now, but it would not surprise me if they go behind a pay wall sooner than later.
 
Looks like they are taking all the music HD2's off the radio and going App only using 'smartstreams' which will not work on any outside player. Still free for now, but it would not surprise me if they go behind a pay wall sooner than later.
This is not a surprise. Audacy explicitly said that they were doing this, and they did.

Given the long list of superior alternatives, putting Audacy content behind any sort of paywall wouldn’t work out well for them.
 
Scott, show me actual listener numbers for WCBS-FM HD2. Show me how much having that "station within a station" actually adds to their share or cume.

You can look at the published numbers yourself. There are no numbers shown for WCBS-FM HD2 but there are numbers for most other HD subchannels. That would seem to indicate that WCBS unsurprisingly uses combined single-line reporting for its AM & HD2 simulcast.

Here are the most recent cumes for some of the other NYC HD subchannels, though. They are not large but it still seems reasonable to infer that WCBS has a comparable number of meter-carrying HD listeners, and those numbers would be added to the station's combined totals. There is really no reason for Audacy to turn off the HD2.

WCBS-FM HD3 (True Oldies Channel) - 48,100
WKTU HD2 (Pride) - 43,900
WXBK HD2 (Country) - 25,500
WINS-FM HD2 (Alt 92.3) - 22,900
WNEW HD2 (Smooth Jazz) - 15,700
 
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