New Triple A for Seattle

[b-turner]

I can add a little but not much here: Disney was geared to moms for advertising. It was a very different time in the 1960s and 1970s. Those decades are far removed from today's advertising environment. Back about 1990 I got ADI dollars in small market radio. ADI dollars are basically what is left over after the ad agency buys the major market stations and the rest goes to stations in the outlying counties. Those dollars have been gone for many years. Times change. In the 1980s I could billing a few thousand in a small market off soft drinks alone but those dollars quickly vanished.

Having grown up through the 1960s and 1970s, the USA was doing some ground-breaking things that encouraged innovation, invention and the infusion of young minds to create new paths. Suburbs were the place young families bought homes as they climbed the corporate ladder. The times had a very different feel. There was an expectation of sorts to stay on top of things which somewhat transferred to music and culture as well.

Even the top 40 stations at the time were very adult leaning during the day. Quite a few reserved the more rock based tunes to after 3 or 4 in the afternoon. For top 40, recalling the advertisers, stations attracted adult advertisers much more than products aimed at teens.

 

[Daryl Lynn L.A.]

If you haven't noticed, teens aren't looking-at-constantly, or actively carrying around radios. Those things in their hands are smartphones.

Wait what? You believe teens of today would be intentionally watching classic music TV shows from the 60's? Seriously? See: TikTok.

No, No. I don't think they're watching old TV shows. I mean in the past. Sponsors used to have products that they could sell to teens. I see now what you're saying about why music shows don't appeal to current teens.

 

[Daryl Lynn L.A.]

I can add a little but not much here: Disney was geared to moms for advertising. It was a very different time in the 1960s and 1970s. Those decades are far removed from today's advertising environment. Back about 1990 I got ADI dollars in small market radio. ADI dollars are basically what is left over after the ad agency buys the major market stations and the rest goes to stations in the outlying counties. Those dollars have been gone for many years. Times change. In the 1980s I could billing a few thousand in a small market off soft drinks alone but those dollars quickly vanished.

Having grown up through the 1960s and 1970s, the USA was doing some ground-breaking things that encouraged innovation, invention and the infusion of young minds to create new paths. Suburbs were the place young families bought homes as they climbed the corporate ladder. The times had a very different feel. There was an expectation of sorts to stay on top of things which somewhat transferred to music and culture as well.

Even the top 40 stations at the time were very adult leaning during the day. Quite a few reserved the more rock based tunes to after 3 or 4 in the afternoon. For top 40, recalling the advertisers, stations attracted adult advertisers much more than products aimed at teens.

Thank you ! I appreciate this useful information.

 

[TheBigA]

Sean Ross listened to KPNW last week and wrote this analysis:

First Listen: The Triple-A Battle for Seattle - RadioInsight

When Hubbard’s KPNW Seattle flipped from Country KNUC to Triple-A on Feb. 14 at 9 a.m., crosstown non-comm KEXP’s morning host John Richards was playing “a set within a set within a theme.” That set was mostly late-’80s Alternative love (or breakup) songs. Those were followed by the Pixies with...

radioinsight.com

He said the commercial breaks are only four minutes. I was surprised they didn't do a commercial-free launch, given their competition. Sean also puts this station in context with KEXP and KNDD. That's the needle they have to thread.

 

[Kelly A]

He said the commercial breaks are only four minutes. I was surprised they didn't do a commercial-free launch, given their competition. Sean also puts this station in context with KEXP and KNDD. That's the needle they have to thread.

My bet is especially in times like these, it was more palatable from the business-side to launch with a smaller spot load verses zero revenue coming in the door.
If KEXP isn't already, now would be the time to hammer-home the no-commercial differentiation liner each time someone opens the mic.
I did something similar against an interloper, KHIT years ago. We bludgeoned them by just pointing out that difference to the same audience. Worked like a charm.

 

[davideduardo]

I was surprised they didn't do a commercial-free launch, given their competition. Sean also puts this station in context with KEXP and KNDD. That's the needle they have to thread.

There are quite a few of us who believe that running no commercials at a launch and hyping that is a set-up for a major fail when the ads start weeks or months later.

My most successful launches have had commercials from the first hour.

In only one case, my first FM which was the market's first one, too, did not sell ads initially and, in fact, for the first year... on purpose. I felt I had to sell FM to the listeners first. Finally, one of the advertisers on all 3 of my AMs said he absolutely had to be on the FM. Jokingly, I told him the rate would be 4 times the highest rate on my top AM station; the response was, "send your salesman tomorrow".

 

[boombox4]

KPNW's music mix is odd -- on one hand you have the Boomer classics like CSNY's Carry On, the Stones' Sympathy, etc., which don't really mix well with Beach Weather and other younger alt artists -- and the liners / promos are all Millennial voices calling this area "the PNW", an abbreviation that no one here uses in actual speech.

Like other abbreviations (LOL, TLDR, ROTFL, SHTF, TEOTWAWKI, etc.) PNW is an acronym that is used in forums and social media but I have yet to hear anyone actually say it vocally. Anywhere. Even my neighbor who has a "PNW" sticker on the rear window of his truck never uses the term. And he was born here.

Point being that although this new station's presentation might have been researched, there are holes in their research. If the consultants are from elsewhere, as indicated in the other thread, at least part of it shows.

But the tech bro audience they're aiming for, many of whom live in highrises downtown and may be relative newcomers, probably wouldn't notice the difference, and maybe that's the point of it. If they can reach those folks, the Millennials who work in tech in the Seattle area, perhaps they'll get the audience for the commercials they want to run.

Still, the station is interesting to listen to -- some of the alt music is very cool -- but it's still a strange mix. But -- if it works, it works, right?

 

[boiseengineer]

Are you new to RadioDiscussions.com? If so, welcome!

 

[CarAgencyGuy]

Yes, some work to do- their liners hammering what a 'local' station they are while incorrectly pronouncing names like Mukilteo. But a good start and a refreshing change on the radio. As to whether it 'works' or not, time will tell.

 

[MVB13]

My husband and I went to Seattle in 2019. What a nice city! We went to this restaurant Skillet Diner in Capital Hill. It was a diner like in Jersey where we live. It was 9 pm when we went in and they were going to close in an hour. They let us in! They were so nice they gave us free cookies 🍪 😋 😍!

 

[gr229]

Lack of diversity: Some people may feel that radio stations in Seattle are not diverse Too much repetition and every station plays the same thing.
Maybe this is why KEXP does well by not repeating stuff every 30 mins and has a diverse playlist.
.
Poor quality programming: People may feel that the programming on Seattle radio stations is not of high quality, whether it's due to poor production values, uninteresting topics, or unappealing personalities on air..

Syndicated programming can only take a radio station so far, as listeners often value local content and personalities. Local programming can help a radio station establish a stronger connection with its audience, as it provides a sense of community and allows listeners to engage with local issues and events.

Advertising overload. I've sat through a few 5 min commercial breaks, not many but a few. ...add a little rant IT SUCKS!

I know that radio programming is complex and involves many different factors, such as market research, demographics, and competition from other stations. Doses local talent play any part in this equation? If so where is it? If not .Why not?

I only know of 2 truly local air personalities in Seattle radio. One of them I've listen to since he was going through puberty on KNHC and the other is when AM radio was hot. They are both still on air talent
I just feel News, Political Talk, Sports is the easy way out and we have enough of them and more to come. ugh!

Top 40/CHR ../Adult Contemporary ::Country. Talk.. Maybe the Earth is flat

My apologies. I believe I posted this in the wrong forum. I thought I was in the Seattle ratings forum

 

[seatownmedia]

Why? No really, why?

 

[TheBigA]

Lack of diversity: Some people may feel that radio stations in Seattle are not diverse Too much repetition and every station plays the same thing.

It depends. There aren't as many urban and Hispanic formats in Seattle as you might see in New York or Chicago. But that's because of the population. When people talk about format diversity, that's usually what they look at. Having two CHRs and two country stations limits the number of other formats you can provide. So now you throw a station like KPNW into this environment, where the music is very broad, from 70s pop to current rock, and we'll see what happens.

Syndicated programming can only take a radio station so far, as listeners often value local content and personalities.

What do you say about syndicated hosts who happen to be based in Seattle, such as Brooke, Jubal, Delilah, or even Fitz?

Advertising overload. I've sat through a few 5 min commercial breaks, not many but a few. ...add a little rant IT SUCKS!

Unfortunately the only revenue stream commercial radio stations have is advertising. The alternative is listener support, and that's how KUOW or KEXP operate. But the number of commercials is based on the amount of money is costs to run the station divided by the price of each commercial. The stations that can't meet their expenses either add more commercials, or cut expenses, usually by eliminating local staff. So there's a direct relationship between the number of commercials and the ability to hire more local staff. If you want more local talent, there needs to be a way to get them paid.

 

[Kelly A]

Point being that although this new station's presentation might have been researched, there are holes in their research. If the consultants are from elsewhere, as indicated in the other thread, at least part of it shows.

That's ridiculous. For groups willing to pay for it; consultants spend a lot of time reaching out in the area of interest, whether it's survey's, focus groups, or physically polling public places. One doesn't have to live in the area, to check the pulse of how people consume media, likes and dislikes.

But the tech bro audience they're aiming for, many of whom live in highrises downtown and may be relative newcomers, probably wouldn't notice the difference, and maybe that's the point of it. If they can reach those folks, the Millennials who work in tech in the Seattle area, perhaps they'll get the audience for the commercials they want to run.

In all the years I've been in the business, I've yet to have seen where stations believe spots will attract an audience. As BigA mentioned already, commercials are how commercial radio is funded. Full stop.

Still, the station is interesting to listen to -- some of the alt music is very cool -- but it's still a strange mix. But -- if it works, it works, right?

So, are you saying the music sucks, consultants are out of touch, and there shouldn't be commercials, otherwise you find the station interesting?

 

[boombox4]

That's ridiculous. For groups willing to pay for it; consultants spend a lot of time reaching out in the area of interest, whether it's survey's, focus groups, or physically polling public places. One doesn't have to live in the area, to check the pulse of how people consume media, likes and dislikes.

In all the years I've been in the business, I've yet to have seen where stations believe spots will attract an audience. As BigA mentioned already, commercials are how commercial radio is funded. Full stop.

So, are you saying the music sucks, consultants are out of touch, and there shouldn't be commercials, otherwise you find the station interesting?

First off, I did not say that the spots would be run to attract an audience. I said the presentation seemed to be set up to attract the audience they want to sell their spots to.

If KPNW are seeking older Millennials, as Big A suggested, I would guess that's the demo they want to sell spots to. So they would set up the presentation and imaging to attract that audience.

RE: Consultants: they can be correct, and they also can be wrong. I worked in a building with a floor full of radio consultants, and although their ideas were successful most of the time (and made the company money), there were a few big bombs, and some lost their jobs over those.

These consultants may know their stuff. But they don't know that no one here says "the PNW".. So they obviously there were limits to their research concerning the audience in the Seattle metro. Is that a station killer? Probably not. But it also doesn't help to have people laugh at the station. But it's also nothing that can't be changed or altered to improve it.

 

[Kelly A]

First off, I did not say that the spots would be run to attract an audience. I said the presentation seemed to be set up to attract the audience they want to sell their spots to.

Sure, that's the way it's done. Advertisers want to reach an demographic, so stations do programming that (they hope) will attract that audience.

If KPNW are seeking older Millennials, as Big A suggested, I would guess that's the demo they want to sell spots to. So they would set up the presentation and imaging to attract that audience.

Again, that's the way it's done.

RE: Consultants: they can be correct, and they also can be wrong. I worked in a building with a floor full of radio consultants, and although their ideas were successful most of the time (and made the company money), there were a few big bombs, and some lost their jobs over those.

That's any business relationship. You earn your pay doing the best job possible. Do a bad job, and you don't do business.

These consultants may know their stuff. But they don't know that no one here says "the PNW". So they obviously there were limits to their research concerning the audience in the Seattle metro.

That amounts to a wives tail. This whole fallacy that Seattle/Tacoma is some mystical-snowflake-media-wonderland, is completely bogus. Was Seattle different than say LA back in the 60's through 80's before there was as much audience research? Maybe, but having worked with TV and radio consultants all over the U.S., I can tell you that all listeners/viewers want is high quality programming. Sure, there are subtle nuances between formats/markets due to demo/geographic and socioeconomic reasons, but this whole 'Seattle is SO unique' that consultants don't know what they're doing, is bunk.

Is that a station killer? Probably not. But it also doesn't help to have people laugh at the station. But it's also nothing that can't be changed or altered to improve it.

This is broadcasting. You're trying to reach a broad audience. Are there a smattering of people who don't like whichever station for whatever reason? Of course. One needs to just surf this very site to see outliers. Does that mean because a handful of people who laugh at whatever format are the majority? Nope.

 

[seatownmedia]

Agreed Kelly. The term”mass media” seems to be lost today. I think it is still of importance. I think Larry A might agree. We were lucky to have a great instructor.

 

[CarAgencyGuy]

There are quite a few of us who believe that running no commercials at a launch and hyping that is a set-up for a major fail when the ads start weeks or months later.

My most successful launches have had commercials from the first hour.

"now back to a long commercial free set". as an advertiser I already know the audience doesn't inherently like ads (unless they are entertaining which is what one should shoot for given the opportunity) but to run bumpers that actively reinforce that ads are something to be avoided feels like a bite to hand that feeds them.

 

[davideduardo]

"now back to a long commercial free set". as an advertiser I already know the audience doesn't inherently like ads (unless they are entertaining which is what one should shoot for given the opportunity) but to run bumpers that actively reinforce that ads are something to be avoided feels like a bite to hand that feeds them.

I never made negatives about the spot breaks... always emphasized the music. Why call further attention to something listeners don't like instead of what they came to hear?

 

[boombox4]

Agreed Kelly. The term”mass media” seems to be lost today. I think it is still of importance. I think Larry A might agree. We were lucky to have a great instructor.

In the day where internet delivery of content has increasingly become the dominant model, the term "mass media" is becoming a misnomer.

We are entering the age where there will be no actual mass media. It's just media. The blogger down the street has the same potential reach as Fox News, and some internet content channels outreach some traditional media outlets. Some inane "content" channels have as many viewers a week as top radio stations in top ten markets.

For the time being, the big "mass media" outlets still exert a lot of pull and have importance, but their days are numbered.