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KiD AM 590 Idaho Falls

KID traces its history back to 1928, and has been on 590 since 1950. I recall hearing it in Grand Teton National Park many decades ago.

The station's website has a logo that still includes 590, but the "our stations" list only has the two FM frequencies.
 
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KID AM is not necessary in today’s environment. There could be hope the calls may remain. But seriously except for a few large market AM’s that still hang on, AM is over. It really happened 20 years ago. The trend continues to be downward. My advice those looking to buy…stay away from AM. But I could have said that 20 years ago and the advice would be the same.
 
This was a semi-regular at night in eastern WA mixed with Spokane and Cedar City UT. But I can see why 590 disappeared. I know the tower land was sold and most of the audience has moved to 92.1 and the other FM frequency. With this and KDWN/KXST disappearing in Vegas, AM is dying slowly, choking on electronic RF and a dwindling audience. I'm enjoying nighttime AM DXing as long as I can, knowing this trend is likely to continue through the decade and beyond.
RIP KID-AM - 1928-2023.

AM is still a big part of the lives of Midwest farmers (KRVN, etc.) and in the Alaskan Bush (KNOM, KYUK, etc.) but for the most part, the formats are either conservative news/talk, sports, religious, ethnic, or music simulcasts solely for the FM translator.
 
I don't understand why the KID calls weren't swapped with the FM simulcast on KIDG. The station's identity is "KID Newsradio". How stupid not to try and keep them!
 
They can still call themselves KID, except for TOH. If I am understanding your post you can call yourself anything you want except for TOH.
 
I guess the owners didn't want to pay the $200 fee to the FCC to formally change the call letters from KIDG to KID-FM. In order to keep this historic three-letter call sign alive, I'm sure a few of us would have chipped in!
 
Nobody today cares about three letter calls, but I understand your argument. Historically it is important but among those 34-54 don’t give a s—t. Call letters are meaningless in todays environment. However I will still worship WLS and WABC to my death.
 
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Nobody today cares about three letter calls, but I understand your argument. Historically it is important but among those 34-54 don’t give a s—t. Call letters are meaningless in todays environment. However I will still worship WLS and WABC to my death.
KOY Phoenix was sent to the graveyard (from 550 to 1230) in 1999. Few noticed.
 
KOY Phoenix was sent to the graveyard (from 550 to 1230) in 1999. Few noticed.
KGY disappeared forever when the AM signal was sold to Relevant Radio to become KBUP, but the audience had already moved to the FM translator… which is still marketed as “KGY” as a relay of KYYO-HD2.
 
I watched a radio station not pay the lease for many months. They were notified that they had violated the lease on the tower site and had to vacate the premises plus restore the other station on site to it's previous configuration, as per the lease. No payment and no site restoration. Lease said the equipment was now property of the lessor.
Trustee told the FCC the the equipment had been "stolen".
 
AM is indeed dead. Even so it's sad to see heritage stations die. Much like everything the government tries to help, it was the government that killed it. First they "saved AM" with the expanded band between 1600 and 1700. No one cared or tuned that high. AM stereo didn't work because Washington could not decide upon a standard. Then they came up with the brilliant translator idea to save AM. How does putting the AM signal on a low power FM save it? It doesn't but it creates more clutter on the FM band which doesn't help anyone to be profitable. When broadcasters were limited to one AM, one FM, and one TV per market we had some creative people competing against creative people Now we have a very few companies owning many stations in a market. There is no need to be competitive any longer. Programming suffers and people find other sources of entertainment when one company has little or no competition. Why would I listen to 8 minute commercial sets on a "music" radio station? Give me some personality and a fun reason to stay tuned and I may. The robots on the air today don't even do live reads which makes boring commercials even more so. Radio sucks because the government tried to help it and failed. The big three broadcasters have nothing exciting to say, and the three guys still employed to do voice tracks on 100 "local" stations don't even read the liners that well. Give me a reason to listen and I will. Until then I'll be reading about stations I don't bother to tune in any longer, on forums like this.

Still I am sad to read about this pointless demise of a once great station. I was there briefly in the early 80s when Bonneville owned it, KID FM and KID TV. Bob Zeil used to do the local TV news inserts on whatever morning show CBS was running at the time. I used to sit off camera on the set having coffee while he read the news. At 9am I would wander down the hall to AM and followed Bob Burtenshaw on the air until noon. I think Bill James (forgive me if memory fails) followed. Guy Hayman did afternoons and hosted the "LIttle Rascals" shorts on TV as well. It was an interesting place. Somewhere in my collection of stuff I have a copy of the 59 KID jingles...the only station you'll ever need. I should dig them out, put them on my old reel to reel, and have a toast to what once was.
 
AM is indeed dead. Even so it's sad to see heritage stations die. Much like everything the government tries to help, it was the government that killed it. First they "saved AM" with the expanded band between 1600 and 1700. No one cared or tuned that high. AM stereo didn't work because Washington could not decide upon a standard.
Actually, AM stereo was killed by the legal actions of Leonard Kahn, whose suit delayed adopti9n of any system for so long that the wind9w of opportunity had already passed by. The FCC decided on the system they thought best and te could have had working AM stereo in 1979 when AM still had half of all listening

Then they came up with the brilliant translator idea to save AM. How does putting the AM signal on a low power FM save it? It doesn't but it creates more clutter on the FM band which doesn't help anyone to be profitable.

Most translators cover as well or better than the high band or daytime or very directional stations they supplement.

When broadcasters were limited to one AM, one FM, and one TV per market we had some creative people competing against creative people

And half of all stations did not make money and could not do anything creative or original. Mostly at fault was the FCC and Docket 80-90 which overpopulated the bands, particularly in smaller markets, without increasing available revenue at all.

Now we have a very few companies owning many stations in a market.

And still radio revenue overall is about 65% below the inflation adjusted amount of 2000.

There is no need to be competitive any longer. Programming suffers and people find other sources of entertainment when one company has little or no competition. Why would I listen to 8 minute commercial sets on a "music" radio station?

Stations in the 50’s and 60’s actually ran more spots than now. But today we compare with streams that have no ads at all, with which commercial radio can not compete.

Give me some personality and a fun reason to stay tuned and I may. The robots on the air today don't even do live reads which makes boring commercials even more so. Radio sucks because the government tried to help it and failed. The big three broadcasters have nothing exciting to say, and the three guys still employed to do voice tracks on 100 "local" stations don't even read the liners that well. Give me a reason to listen and I will. Until then I'll be reading about stations I don't bother to tune in any longer, on forums like this.

But most listeners under 50 today don’t want chatter and “pretend friends” on the radio.
 
I will agree with you about the Kahn system. I had forgotten most of that stuff. I will say that more push from broadcasters and the FCC to do something might have helped. I do remember that I kind of liked AM stereo. Something about the pumping sound of am processing and the separation of the stereo sound pleased me. I had one of those radios that worked with Kahn and Motorola stations. It was Motorola? I think. Memories huh?

I don't see the translators as equal coverage for the AM stations they broadcast. At least around here the translators have less, although clearer coverage. If they do have equal coverage, why not turn off the AM signal and just go with the translator if that's the answer to save the local signal? I do think that the FM band is way to cluttered with all these little signals, but that's just my thought.

I also agree with you about the old 18 minute commercials per hour in the old days. Very true, but if you had a live and interesting person reading a live spot leading into a well produced "Dick and Bert" or Stan Freberg spot, it might be more palatable. If commercials were a bit entertaining we could put up with more of them. In the "olde days" we never had eight minute stop sets. We had two or three minute breaks more frequently per hour even at Christmas time when we often ran 22 minutes of commercials per hour. Whether it's best to stop less for longer sets, I don't know. I do know that I won't sit through those long and horrible commercial breaks at :50 past the hour. I also agree with your figures of declining revenue. I believe it would not have declined as much or as quickly if we gave a reason to tune in and a better product that could produce local traffic for a spot buy.

Tastes change and no one wants the old DJ friend as you stated. Agreed. But no one needs a station that plays music with only liner cards between the tunes and a thousand minutes of commercials. We have non commercial internet sources for music without commercials as you pointed out. So I must believe that if we giver listeners something they enjoy with the music, it will be better for the broadcaster. Radio today is boring. Nearly all of it. Maybe the friendly DJ is a thing of the past but we need some kind of entertainment or information beyond the music.

You are also correct that radio is not very profitable today and that would probably be true even if there were still limits on number of stations owned in a market. I will say that I believe with the competition that existed under the old rules, the decay would have been slower even though some of the AM signals would have faded and died without the translators clogging up the FM band. and there would probably be fewer signals although stronger stations than today. The survivors would get a larger share of advertising dollars, the missing AMs would go unnoticed and the nonsense of the same company buying a dozen translators and repeating the same crap up and down the FM dial may not have happened. I don't know how to save radio or I'd be very rich, but I do know that unless someone finds a way to make it entertaining, it is pointless. We get school closings, weather and news from our phones, and commercial free music from a million sources, so there seems to be nothing to draw us to radio. I'd like to fix it or turn it off and save the electricity for the day that will soon be here when the dictatorship government starts rationing air conditioning.
 
I don't see the translators as equal coverage for the AM stations they broadcast. At least around here the translators have less, although clearer coverage. If they do have equal coverage, why not turn off the AM signal and just go with the translator if that's the answer to save the local signal? I do think that the FM band is way to cluttered with all these little signals, but that's just my thought.
If you turn off the AM for an "AM Specific" translator, the translator license is cancelled.
I also agree with you about the old 18 minute commercials per hour in the old days. Very true, but if you had a live and interesting person reading a live spot leading into a well produced "Dick and Bert" or Stan Freberg spot, it might be more palatable. If commercials were a bit entertaining we could put up with more of them. In the "olde days" we never had eight minute stop sets. We had two or three minute breaks more frequently per hour even at Christmas time when we often ran 22 minutes of commercials per hour.
Radio has nothing to do with agency spots, and those that you mention are from ad agencies. Today, hard sell is prevalent and humor, jingles and fun commercials are not widely used.

Go to Amazon and buy Steve Karmen's "Who Killed the Jingle" or look for a copy on eBay. Good story by the guy who wrote some of America's best radio jingles ever.
Whether it's best to stop less for longer sets, I don't know.
It is better as far as PPM markets are concerned, as ad tuneout is the same for two long stops or four shorter ones. So you lose less with two long.
I do know that I won't sit through those long and horrible commercial breaks at :50 past the hour. I also agree with your figures of declining revenue. I believe it would not have declined as much or as quickly if we gave a reason to tune in and a better product that could produce local traffic for a spot buy.
Nearly half of the decline in revenue is due to inflation. The rest is a combination of the PPM showing over 30% lower PUR, and that means lower rates... and the move to streaming by, particularly, younger audience groups.
Tastes change and no one wants the old DJ friend as you stated. Agreed. But no one needs a station that plays music with only liner cards between the tunes and a thousand minutes of commercials. We have non commercial internet sources for music without commercials as you pointed out. So I must believe that if we giver listeners something they enjoy with the music, it will be better for the broadcaster. Radio today is boring. Nearly all of it. Maybe the friendly DJ is a thing of the past but we need some kind of entertainment or information beyond the music.
Nobody has figured that out yet. We know that talking over the intro is mortal today, and dated artist news we saw yesterday online is deadly as well. Except for some excellent national or regional shows, most "talent" is.... well... isn't.
You are also correct that radio is not very profitable today and that would probably be true even if there were still limits on number of stations owned in a market. I will say that I believe with the competition that existed under the old rules, the decay would have been slower even though some of the AM signals would have faded and died without the translators clogging up the FM band. and there would probably be fewer signals although stronger stations than today.
So few stations could make money with increasing expenses, the additional Docket 80-90 stations and new media entering the scene that consolidation was inevitable. I owned 9 stations in a single market in the later 60's and several of the formats could not be done by stand-alone station, but when combined for sales, engineering and G&A they were nicely profitable and gave me (and the market) diversity.
 
Regarding the translators; yes they were designed to make the AM station listenable. I understand the rules about feeding it from the AM source. I'm just suggesting that the rules be altered. The AM station would be authorized a translator and would broadcast on both frequencies for a finite time. Then after a period, the AM would go dark and the license would be for the translator to continue in its place. This might stop some of the buying and selling of translators by speculators. The AM signal seems unnecessary.

I understand the People Meters and how we program to them. That ignores the problem of making the product that people really want to listen to, even through the commercial sets. I can't imagine a local sponsor paying for the 6th position in the set. Yes, I know the national buy won't even know where they are placed, except that their spot aired at 3:34:50. It's a matter of how to make the product listenable, which it is not. I also understand where agency spots come from and how they are bought. My suggestion was that if the revenue generators were entertaining, people would sit through them and the advertiser would get a better bang for the buck. Local spots were never as good as the national spots, but the local product was better in the past, in my opinion. With today's digital toys, the spots today should be as good and better than the ones in the past, but I am not hearing it. I can remember taking an hour to loop part of a song for a needed effect in the past. That would take seconds to do today, so at least that part of the operation should and could be faster and cheaper in manpower hours. And no, I don't pretend to understand the current tastes, mostly because being in the higher, unnecessary demos, I just don't care. I know we can't talk over intros today, but I also know that if we read a liner card about the hottest hits and a chance to win tomorrow morning at 7:20, no one will pay attention because it is soooo very bland and boring. I don't understand how the shouting commercials are doing anyone any good. There has to be a survey about listener retention and how well a spot message is retained. I understand and agree with what you say, my only concern is why no one is trying harder to make it listenable as the diminishing returns make an investment in radio a risky and worthless investment. It's kind of like buying a pay phone company in 1990.

I was never one of the guys who preach "the public good" nonsense printed somewhere in the licenses. The public didn't invest a million bucks for a transmitter and tower. I am a guy who thinks you have to provide a product of value to be paid for it and I can think of few stations which do so in 2023. For now it's free and I can choose to listen or not. As a taxpayer I worry that I Heart and the others will come to the government with hat in hand for taxpayer dollars to keep their "importan public services" on the air when the ad dollars finally dry up. I never want to see that although I'm guessing it will happen in the future. No one asked, but I'll also suggest that PBS be turned off if it can't raise funds to continue operation without the government assistance.

It is expensive indeed to operate in today's environment. If you own nine stations in a market and provide several formats which could not survive alone, I'd suggest those formats should die. Part of the revenue problem has to be the pie being cut into tiny pieces. Yes, I understand that nine stations sharing a building and engineer saves money, but it really doesn't produce an interesting product. I don't pretend to have the answers for building something listenable which will attract an audience and revenue, but I know the current product doesn't, even with the sales touting the benefits of group buys for all those formats. I don't know the format of the future, but someone needs to discover it.

I very much enjoy your thoughts and I can't find much to disagree with. You are correct in what you say. It saddens me to hear what has become of some of the once great radio stations. Maybe it's nostalgia. Maybe it's sadness that no one today wants to be in that business. I know some of today's salaries are about what we were making in 1985 at a somewhat successful station. Not long ago, I met some talent of a very well know and popular station in the Hudson Valley. It is a market leader that few have not heard of. I met him at a local bar where he was serving drinks to make ends meet. I know you can't get blood from a stone and I don't know if the egg or the chicken comes first, but if we can't find a way to get some blood from that stone to pay talented people, and find interesting things to program, there is no reason for we old codgers or even the young whippersnappers to tune in. We're proving that every day.
 
If you own nine stations in a market and provide several formats which could not survive alone, I'd suggest those formats should die. Part of the revenue problem has to be the pie being cut into tiny pieces. Yes, I understand that nine stations sharing a building and engineer saves money, but it really doesn't produce an interesting product. I don't pretend to have the answers for building something listenable which will attract an audience and revenue, but I know the current product doesn't, even with the sales touting the benefits of group buys for all those formats. I don't know the format of the future, but someone needs to discover it.
I don't own them any more.

But I was able to get a number of early FM licenses at nearly no cost, and I used several of them to do niche formats that were not costly to program but could be sold both alone and in packages. I had every significant format covered with my main stations, so if I wanted to increase revenue and give ad agencies and advertisers no reason to go elsewhere (the market had over 40 fulltime, full facility stations) I needed to cover both the gold mines and the tin and zinc mines, too.
I very much enjoy your thoughts and I can't find much to disagree with. You are correct in what you say. It saddens me to hear what has become of some of the once great radio stations. Maybe it's nostalgia. Maybe it's sadness that no one today wants to be in that business. I know some of today's salaries are about what we were making in 1985 at a somewhat successful station. Not long ago, I met some talent of a very well know and popular station in the Hudson Valley. It is a market leader that few have not heard of. I met him at a local bar where he was serving drinks to make ends meet. I know you can't get blood from a stone and I don't know if the egg or the chicken comes first, but if we can't find a way to get some blood from that stone to pay talented people, and find interesting things to program, there is no reason for we old codgers or even the young whippersnappers to tune in. We're proving that every day.
There is nothing that would put me back in radio operations in the US. I earn more from investments than I ever made in radio, and I have no concerns about the decline of the business. On the other hand, there are options in some underdeveloped nations that are truly exciting as they combine audio with bank-free money management such as being done in Subsaharan Africa and which are totally "new" concepts.
 
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