Richard Wagoner latest take on KABC AM

[Weiserguy]

KABC's transmitter is about four miles from Pico -Robertson, the largest Orthodox Jewish community west of New York. Would a format targeting this community work for KABC?

The Jewish community in SoCal -- not even limiting that to Orthodox Jews near Pico -- is big by comparison to the SFBA or Puget Sound, but it's a fraction of New York City and suburbs. (In fact, Long Island alone dwarfs it.) And there is no radio station anywhere in the entire NYC market that specializes in Jewish programming, and there hasn't been since WEVD was sold off by the Forward Association 20-or-more years ago. There's a program here and there (Zev Brenner's Talkline comes to mind), but no dedicated stations. So why would you think that idea would work on KABC?

Like David says repeatedly, regarding the Hispanic/Latino populations in the USA, the Jewish "community" is made up of many communities, with different levels of religiosity (including "completely secular"), different cultural tastes, different musical/entertainment tastes, different political orientations, different sexual orientations, different, different, different. About the only thing that draws us together is support for Israel, and even there, where there are two Jews, there are three opinions. So again, why would you think that idea would work on KABC? Even assuming it was for sale, and there was a willing and foolish buyer to take it off Cumulus's hands?

 

[BLA]

No, they know exactly what they're buying. Advertisers are not stupid. Especially national ones.

Agencies work with clients to meet certain targets and goals. Companies create sales packages designed to achieve them.



They don't "pay extra for LA." They pay a bulk rate for a percentage of the country.

Of course they are not. The inference was rhetorical. Something still seems amiss to me.

 

[BLA]

They don't "pay extra for LA." They pay a bulk rate for a percentage of the country.

Re: Cumulus' national shows.
O.K. "Extra" may be a misnomer, as seen above, but the "national percentage" is still padded with the L.A. population numbers. Kinda like Confederate money! Again, I don't know what kind of advertisers they have.

 

[ercjncpr]

In Richard wagoners latest article Friday June 16th 2023. Richard has suggested that KABC go all local with talk. Or go play oldies. I'm in favor with him about going all local that should help KABC rise in the Shares. What does everyone think is wagoner right or wrong? Let me know.

Why in the world would anyone in Los Angeles want to put music on AM radio?
(Saul Levine, you didn’t hear that🤣)

 

[Gregg.]

KABC gives Cumulus/Westwood One a station playing its commercials in Market #2. So when advertisers buy a spot on one of the national talk shows, Dan Bongino, Ben Shapiro or Red Eye Radio, it gets aired in the second largest market in the U.S.

I would further guess that a list of Westwood One's affiliates shows 1230 WFAS as its "New York station." Never mind that the station is only 1,000 watts and is licensed to White Plains, about 35 miles north of Midtown. Should I add that it can't be received by conventional AM radios, that you need an AM HD radio to hear it?

WFAS is owned by Cumulus and plays nearly every show that comes down the Westwood One network line. The one exception is Mark Levin, which is carried on 770 WABC from that station's days when Cumulus owned it.

 

[TheBigA]

I would further guess that a list of Westwood One's affiliates shows 1230 WFAS as its "New York station." Never mind that the station is only 1,000 watts and is licensed to White Plains, about 35 miles north of Midtown.

Cumulus sold WFAS at the end of last year:

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But there are other area stations that carry Cumulus talk shows. As I've been saying, sales for national shows are based on markets cleared, not actual listeners.

 

[Robert Douglas]

Why in the world would anyone in Los Angeles want to put music on AM radio?
(Saul Levine, you didn’t hear that🤣)

Why in the world would anyone in San Antonio want to put music on AM radio? I don't know, but there are 12 of them. And FM works better there than in LA since there are no significant shadows.

 

[michael hagerty]

KABC gives Cumulus/Westwood One a station playing its commercials in Market #2. So when advertisers buy a spot on one of the national talk shows, Dan Bongino, Ben Shapiro or Red Eye Radio, it gets aired in the second largest market in the U.S.

This is why I'm not an agency buyer. Because my first instinct is----"Great. My client is on the air in L.A. Does anyone hear them?" Otherwise, this is of extremely little value.

I went through this programming TV 15 years ago. Syndicators: "We're cleared in 54% of the country." Me: "Half of that is on digital subchannels at 2:00 AM Sundays."

(cue Casey Kasem: "TWO?????")

 

[ChannelFlipper]

This is why I'm not an agency buyer. Because my first instinct is----"Great. My client is on the air in L.A. Does anyone hear them?" Otherwise, this is of extremely little value.

I went through this programming TV 15 years ago. Syndicators: "We're cleared in 54% of the country." Me: "Half of that is on digital subchannels at 2:00 AM Sundays."

(cue Casey Kasem: "TWO?????")

My Favorite Casey quote ever (with all appropriate apologies to Snuggles). For those who don't know what this is, Casey is taping a bunch of individualized spots for his affliates when he reads:

"American Top 40 has moved to new time. I hope you will join me this Saturday and every Saturday moning at two. Two??!!"

Still Awesome. Some other good ones online too that I can't quote on a family website.

 

[Weiserguy]

This is why I'm not an agency buyer. Because my first instinct is----"Great. My client is on the air in L.A. Does anyone hear them?" Otherwise, this is of extremely little value.

Buyers don't seem too concerned whether listeners are going to be positively or negatively influenced by the programming environment their ads run in. As an example, Rush (until he became full of himself) created a giant club that made listeners feel part of an "in" crowd, a net plus for advertisers regardless of his actual subject matter. Levin, by contrast, sounds so shrill and his content so hate-filled that he probably couldn't sell gold ingots at a 90% discount. That should be part of the agency's thinking, and to the extent it's not, that itself is a huge fail.

 

[TheBigA]

Buyers don't seem too concerned whether listeners are going to be positively or negatively influenced by the programming environment their ads run in.

It depends on the advertisers. I still get "do not air" notifications from certain advertisers who don't want their spots in any controversial programming. But you may be right about balance of nature and other health advertising. And those are probably most of the spots you'll hear on KABC.

 

[michael hagerty]

Buyers don't seem too concerned whether listeners are going to be positively or negatively influenced by the programming environment their ads run in. As an example, Rush (until he became full of himself) created a giant club that made listeners feel part of an "in" crowd, a net plus for advertisers regardless of his actual subject matter. Levin, by contrast, sounds so shrill and his content so hate-filled that he probably couldn't sell gold ingots at a 90% discount. That should be part of the agency's thinking, and to the extent it's not, that itself is a huge fail.

Valid points, but ones that assume there's an audience. Not sure you can make that case for KABC.

"I'm on the air in L.A., but reaching the same number of people I could with a buy on the number 11 station in Salt Lake City? Swell."

 

[TomásEstefan]

Valid points, but ones that assume there's an audience. Not sure you can make that case for KABC.

"I'm on the air in L.A., but reaching the same number of people I could with a buy on the number 11 station in Salt Lake City? Swell."

I think what Richard Wagoner really wants is that KABC programming should be something like what's on WABC. Although WABC is a rich man's "hobby station" in NYC like 1260 is here.

I think one idea for 790 that eventually might work and possibly get some listeners is that 1580 KBLA programmers should enter into an LMA with 790 which has a superior signal which will reach all of their target audience throughout Greater LA. After a reasonable period of simulcasting to transfer the audience, the current owners of 1580 could then sell their facility to any number of religious organizations who are dying to own their own station or possibly could just lease all of the available time to whoever wants to "get on the air". One interested party might be that gentleman on another thread who wants to start his own Short Wave Station! He could reach quite a bit of LA on the cheap!

But then again 790 is Cumulus and well you know...

 

[TheBigA]

I think what Richard Wagoner really wants is that KABC programming should be something like what's on WABC.

You may be right, and that goes back to my first post in this thread, that it will take a new owner to carry out that vision.

KBLA programmers should enter into an LMA with 790 which has a superior signal

That makes a lot of sense. Unfortunately, Tavis is already stretched very thin paying off the $7 million he paid for KBLA. I bet he could have bought KABC for half of that.

 

[TomásEstefan]

The Jewish community in SoCal -- not even limiting that to Orthodox Jews near Pico -- is big by comparison to the SFBA or Puget Sound, but it's a fraction of New York City and suburbs. (In fact, Long Island alone dwarfs it.) And there is no radio station anywhere in the entire NYC market that specializes in Jewish programming, and there hasn't been since WEVD was sold off by the Forward Association 20-or-more years ago. There's a program here and there (Zev Brenner's Talkline comes to mind), but no dedicated stations. So why would you think that idea would work on KABC?

Like David says repeatedly, regarding the Hispanic/Latino populations in the USA, the Jewish "community" is made up of many communities, with different levels of religiosity (including "completely secular"), different cultural tastes, different musical/entertainment tastes, different political orientations, different sexual orientations, different, different, different. About the only thing that draws us together is support for Israel, and even there, where there are two Jews, there are three opinions. So again, why would you think that idea would work on KABC? Even assuming it was for sale, and there was a willing and foolish buyer to take it off Cumulus's hands?

Your opinion, my opinion, and the truth...a concept lost on too many people today...

 

[michael hagerty]

I think what Richard Wagoner really wants is that KABC programming should be something like what's on WABC. Although WABC is a rich man's "hobby station" in NYC like 1260 is here.

The big difference is that WABC is 50,000 watts and can actually be heard throughout the metro. So, if Catsimatidis had something a large audience wanted to hear, they could.

KABC, on the other hand (as David has pointed out many times) is primarily a West L.A. signal. It does not cover the metro adequately any more (hasn't for decades, and it's only gotten worse along with the increase in the noise floor). IF they suddenly found themselves in the Zeitgeist, doing the one thing that 25-54 year old Southern Californians want to hear, they aren't in a position to deliver it to enough of them to have the ratings reflect it.

I think one idea for 790 that eventually might work and possibly get some listeners is that 1580 KBLA programmers should enter into an LMA with 790 which has a superior signal which will reach all of their target audience throughout Greater LA. After a reasonable period of simulcasting to transfer the audience, the current owners of 1580 could then sell their facility to any number of religious organizations who are dying to own their own station or possibly could just lease all of the available time to whoever wants to "get on the air". One interested party might be that gentleman on another thread who wants to start his own Short Wave Station! He could reach quite a bit of LA on the cheap!

So, the current owners of KBLA, who've been counting on a $7 million payday from Tavis that may never be fully realized, are supposed to just sell it for next to nothing?

 

[michael hagerty]

That makes a lot of sense. Unfortunately, Tavis is already stretched very thin paying off the $7 million he paid for KBLA. I bet he could have bought KABC for half of that.

You think Cumulus would have taken $3.5 million for KABC?

 

[TheBigA]

You think Cumulus would have taken $3.5 million for KABC?

Disney just took $5 million for KRDC, and that's a bigger signal than KABC. On the other has Cumulus sold WFAS for $7.5 million and it's a POS in White Plains.

 

[michael hagerty]

Disney just took $5 million for KRDC, and that's a bigger signal than KABC. On the other has Cumulus sold WFAS for $7.5 million and it's a POS in White Plains.

All good points. I'm surprised nobody's offered them that much in the years it's been (arguably) available.

 

[Rollo-Smokes]

Cumulus sold WFAS at the end of last year:

Radio Industry News, New Music, Music Promotion, Radio Station Song Charts

All Access offers the latest radio industry news and music news, music promotions for record companies new music, radio station song charts, and much more. AllAccess.com has been serving the radio and music industry since 1995, always bringing you the highest quality content with...

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But there are other area stations that carry Cumulus talk shows. As I've been saying, sales for national shows are based on markets cleared, not actual listeners.

Cumulus sold WFAS-FM. You obviously misread the very article which you linked.

WFAS (AM) is still a Cumulus property.