Radio Discussions dialogue within forums

[pumpin73]

Hello, I have just been added to the Radio Discussions message board. I have a comment/concern. I thought this was supposed to be an open dialogue about radio. It seems like when some people on the board say something others are quick to shoot them down. Or they try to act as if they are above your intelligence level.

Not everyone on here is a radio expert. Some of us are just giving our opinions on what they think of the industry. The radio business may work one way, but that isn't necessarily the BEST way. There is always room for improvement. There is nothing wrong with people voicing their satisfaction (or dissatisfaction) concerning a station or cluster of stations.

We shouldn't have to feel talked down to. Just thought I would throw that out there.

 

[Kelly A]

First of all, welcome. Like any discussion board, there are several walks of life here: Radio hobbyists, who grew up with radio and continue their fascination with it in a hobby form. Also in that category are DX'ers, or distant listeners. Another group are interested in the content side, and which station wins what amounts to a beauty contest within their local market. These are the folks who frequently site publicly-published 6+ ratings to determine who are considered winners and losers. Radio to them is like watching a horse race. Next, we have several professionals who either have, or continue to work in the industry. Many of these folks, me included, have worked in the media business for most of their working careers. Some either already own, or have owned radio stations, and may include LPFM's. Also included in large numbers who enjoy reliving the nostalgic side of radio when it was the only game in town. There are some who are fascinated by music, and how radio relates to music and formats. And finally; the people who worked in radio, but their career was cut short for whatever reason. They're usually the ones who use terms like; "corporate radio", or make up names for radio companies. (Think like some names given by a former President).

The challenge with this mixing bowl of interests, boils down to two ways of looking at radio; from the outside or from the inside. Outsiders only have knowledge of what they hear, and their perception therein. Many of us insiders try to correct, or educate perceptions from the outside view, by explaining how things work from an inside-baseball perspective. Sometimes it comes off textually as 'talking-down' to someone, but just because it's taken that way by the one being corrected, doesn't mean the point, or information is any less valid.
As I've mentioned on this site when someone gets all hurt after being corrected, potentially multiple times; this is a discussion board, not an agreement, nor therapy session-board.

 

[TheBigA]

We shouldn't have to feel talked down to. Just thought I would throw that out there.

You're taking it personally. We all love to talk about radio. That's why we're here. Some of us come from different experience levels. That's good for an open discussion, because there's an opportunity to learn something we might not have considered before. In that way, we all grow individually. So you came here with a certain knowledge base. Every time you engage, that knowledge base grows. Or it CAN grow, if you let it, and you're open to new ways of viewing things.

 

[CTListener]

You're taking it personally. We all love to talk about radio. That's why we're here. Some of us come from different experience levels. That's good for an open discussion, because there's an opportunity to learn something we might not have considered before. In that way, we all grow individually. So you came here with a certain knowledge base. Every time you engage, that knowledge base grows. Or it CAN grow, if you let it, and you're open to new ways of viewing things.

That is the key. My background is in print, a 40+ year newspaper career, but I've always loved radio and everything about it. I've learned tons from the professionals on this board. Some of what they've written over the years has been hard for me to accept and I do occasionally challenge their assertions, but almost all the time, their explanations make logical sense and I accept them, even if deep down I still have my doubts.

There's only so much a hamburger eater can know about the hamburger he's eating if he's never worked anywhere in the meat business, even if he fancies himself a hamburger connoisseur. And whether the eater disapproves of some aspect of the business and thinks that hamburgers would be better if things were different, that doesn't change the reality of what's happening on the farms, in the slaughterhouses, in the packing plants, in the supermarkets, etc. Same goes for radio. When you argue that radio would somehow be "better" if something that's never worked before -- or even been tried before -- were the way things are done, you're just writing radio fan-fic. At some point, reality needs to be accepted and you move on and find easier windmills to tilt at. The pros here have no reason to lie to the fans.

 

[Mikey Radio]

Hello, I have just been added to the Radio Discussions message board. I have a comment/concern. I thought this was supposed to be an open dialogue about radio. It seems like when some people on the board say something others are quick to shoot them down. Or they try to act as if they are above your intelligence level.

Not everyone on here is a radio expert. Some of us are just giving our opinions on what they think of the industry. The radio business may work one way, but that isn't necessarily the BEST way. There is always room for improvement. There is nothing wrong with people voicing their satisfaction (or dissatisfaction) concerning a station or cluster of stations.

We shouldn't have to feel talked down to. Just thought I would throw that out there.

I sometimes find it helpful to think about the RadioDiscussions site overall as a bunch of radio guys (and gals) sitting in a coffee shop, shooting the breeze about different subjects. Some of those guys will be more knowledgeable than others, some are wiser as they've been around for years, some have the 'inside track' and insight into certain happenings within the industry, and others may just be hobbiests or fans of the medium but like to hang out there and contribute to the banter when they can.

Sometimes chatter about a certain subject may wander into other areas, or even turn political. There are moderators to move it back to the subject at hand if it starts to go too far off the rails. And, of course, in that coffee shop full of radio people, you'll get the occasional guy (or gal) who comes off as abrasive or may not suffer what he views as fools, wisely. Others have all the time in the world for the newbies or novices and don't mind imparting knowledge or helping them understand a certain subject or concept better. You'll also find the occasional "old curmudgeon" as well as a few that are maybe a bit more green and eager but are convinced that they know best, and maybe try and put forth the same ideas over and over, maybe in a different way to different groups, in an effort to finally find acceptance for them. Then you get the "special" ones who are kept around for their entertainment value more than anything.

 

[Larry]

one put down that you might see that I sadly think is at least somewhat justified (sorry) is when a poster repeats the same thing over and over in the same or different threads. As an example when a popular radio station recently brought on new hosts for their morning show one poster posted repeatedly in the same thread he would never listen to that radio station again, then in subsequent threads he posted he listened to the new morning team, didn’t like them and the music and he would never listen to that station again. The exception to the rule but very irritating because of it’s repetition.

 

[davideduardo]

We shouldn't have to feel talked down to. Just thought I would throw that out there.

Where we most often see dismissive responses that, in lot's more words, seem to say, "that's stupid" is when a person with no practical experience in broadcasting uses the word "should" as in "stations should play more different songs."

The way to start that discussion is "why do stations seem to play so few songs when there are lots that I think they should play." In other words, present a premise, not a conclusion.

 

[michael hagerty]

I'll say one other thing too. If you write something factually wrong, you'll hear about it. If not from me, from David, or Kelly, or Big A, or somebody.

This board is used as source material for students of broadcasting, for journalists writing about the field and for filmmakers trying to re-create eras. Several of us here, myself included, answered questions and provided archival material for Quentin Tarantino's company when they were in pre-production research on "Once Upon a Time in Hollywood" (a good portion of the soundtrack is from airchecks of KHJ and there was a scene shot with an actor playing Humble Harve that wound up on the cutting room floor).

They found us through this site.

There is at least one documentary currently being filmed about AM radio that some of us here have provided research and interviews for. One of the first things we did was suggest the writer/producer read this board.

So, facts matter and we're pretty protective of this site in that regard. That said, we're all human and when I get it sideways, I acknowledge and correct it as soon as I'm aware I goofed.

 

[Weiserguy]

So, facts matter and we're pretty protective of this site in that regard. That said, we're all human and when I get it sideways, I acknowledge and correct it as soon as I'm aware I goofed.

That is a **huge** thing. Being willing to admit you -- anyone -- were, or might be, wrong. Going back and doing a little research. Not just doubling down, and doubling down again.

There are individuals who seem constitutionally incapable of ever admitting they were wrong, even about the most insignificant facts or opinions.

 

[semoochie]

That is a **huge** thing. Being willing to admit you -- anyone -- were, or might be, wrong. Going back and doing a little research. Not just doubling down, and doubling down again.

There are individuals who seem constitutionally incapable of ever admitting they were wrong, even about the most insignificant facts or opinions.

One of them has orange hair.

 

[michael hagerty]

One of them has orange hair.

Yes, but he's unconstutionally incapable of ever admitting he's wrong.

 

[tall_guy1]

I'll say one other thing too. If you write something factually wrong, you'll hear about it. If not from me, from David, or Kelly, or Big A, or somebody.

This board is used as source material for students of broadcasting, for journalists writing about the field and for filmmakers trying to re-create eras. Several of us here, myself included, answered questions and provided archival material for Quentin Tarantino's company when they were in pre-production research on "Once Upon a Time in Hollywood" (a good portion of the soundtrack is from airchecks of KHJ and there was a scene shot with an actor playing Humble Harve that wound up on the cutting room floor).

They found us through this site.

There is at least one documentary currently being filmed about AM radio that some of us here have provided research and interviews for. One of the first things we did was suggest the writer/producer read this board.

So, facts matter and we're pretty protective of this site in that regard. That said, we're all human and when I get it sideways, I acknowledge and correct it as soon as I'm aware I goofed.

I was a student of broadcasting and got a bachelor's degree (never found a job there, so work in a warehouse) but never was directed to this site by any professors...I found it on my own. Also, like any media, some companies make bad decisions which the listener side weighs in on (though mine are generally more left field than most.)

 

[davideduardo]

I was a student of broadcasting and got a bachelor's degree (never found a job there, so work in a warehouse) but never was directed to this site by any professors...I found it on my own. Also, like any media, some companies make bad decisions which the listener side weighs in on (though mine are generally more left field than most.)

Anecdote time: The sole owner of station group I was manager for in the 80's and consulted for through around 2010 had a policy of not hiring college grads with a major in broadcasting or communications. He said, simply, "they come in with the belief that they know more than I do".

This was the owner of, among other stations, a top 20 market's 25 year #1 station in audience and billing. We apparently had a fairly good idea of what might be successful.

 

[Weiserguy]

One of them has orange hair.

Yes, but he's unconstutionally incapable of ever admitting he's wrong.

I was really tempted to use ol' Orange Julius as an example, but the Message Of The Day yesterday (at the top of the page) had warned us off delving too deeply into politics. (But if ever the concept of Karma was on point...)

Actually the guy I really had in mind is the moderator of an entirely different message board. He would make posts that corrected or challenged him just completely evaporate, even when he was verifiable wrong. Very thin-skinned and, in that way, immature.

 

[CTListener]

Anecdote time: The sole owner of station group I was manager for in the 80's and consulted for through around 2010 had a policy of not hiring college grads with a major in broadcasting or communications. He said, simply, "they come in with the belief that they know more than I do".

This was the owner of, among other stations, a top 20 market's 25 year #1 station in audience and billing. We apparently had a fairly good idea of what might be successful.

Are you referring to entry-level hires fresh out of college or applicants with experience in broadcasting who happen to have majored in communications years ago? I disagree with automatically eliminating communications majors in either situation, as there are always exceptions to arbitrary rules based on limited observations and stereotypes, but holding a degree against job seekers who have spent years in radio building an impressive resume is as repugnant to me as holding their religion, race or ethnicity against them.

 

[TheBigA]

This was the owner of, among other stations, a top 20 market's 25 year #1 station in audience and billing. We apparently had a fairly good idea of what might be successful.

Hey look at one time, the folks running ABC Radio knew what might be successful. Then someone moved their cheese.

 

[tall_guy1]

Anecdote time: The sole owner of station group I was manager for in the 80's and consulted for through around 2010 had a policy of not hiring college grads with a major in broadcasting or communications. He said, simply, "they come in with the belief that they know more than I do".

This was the owner of, among other stations, a top 20 market's 25 year #1 station in audience and billing. We apparently had a fairly good idea of what might be successful.

That is some small consolidation. Most positions weren't even available to me, and those who were and I interviewed for were passed over for those with more experience.

Where we most often see dismissive responses that, in lot's more words, seem to say, "that's stupid" is when a person with no practical experience in broadcasting uses the word "should" as in "stations should play more different songs."

The way to start that discussion is "why do stations seem to play so few songs when there are lots that I think they should play." In other words, present a premise, not a conclusion.

It looks like some coastal cities have better variety than a lot of towns people post from. KBIG has a pretty good variety I think and Z100 Portland has tracks like Rather Be by Clean Bandit as golds, but a lot of towns draw it looks like from the songs that test only the very top, whereas some stations out there it looks like draws from songs in the "light green." Although it is possible some songs are only somewhat liked certain areas, but some stations seem overly rigid.

 

[Daryl Lynn L.A.]

First of all, welcome. Like any discussion board, there are several walks of life here: Radio hobbyists, who grew up with radio and continue their fascination with it in a hobby form. Also in that category are DX'ers, or distant listeners. Another group are interested in the content side, and which station wins what amounts to a beauty contest within their local market. These are the folks who frequently site publicly-published 6+ ratings to determine who are considered winners and losers. Radio to them is like watching a horse race. Next, we have several professionals who either have, or continue to work in the industry. Many of these folks, me included, have worked in the media business for most of their working careers. Some either already own, or have owned radio stations, and may include LPFM's. Also included in large numbers who enjoy reliving the nostalgic side of radio when it was the only game in town. There are some who are fascinated by music, and how radio relates to music and formats. And finally; the people who worked in radio, but their career was cut short for whatever reason. They're usually the ones who use terms like; "corporate radio", or make up names for radio companies. (Think like some names given by a former President).

The challenge with this mixing bowl of interests, boils down to two ways of looking at radio; from the outside or from the inside. Outsiders only have knowledge of what they hear, and their perception therein. Many of us insiders try to correct, or educate perceptions from the outside view, by explaining how things work from an inside-baseball perspective. Sometimes it comes off textually as 'talking-down' to someone, but just because it's taken that way by the one being corrected, doesn't mean the point, or information is any less valid.
As I've mentioned on this site when someone gets all hurt after being corrected, potentially multiple times; this is a discussion board, not an agreement, nor therapy session-board.

It's not the presence of knowledge, Kelly; it's the lack of civility. It's the tone of the responses, with the ad hominem attacks and the personal insults. You have misinterpreted the objections to the demeaning writing and believe that it is because the outsiders don't want to have knowledge or want a "personal therapy" group. Most outsiders are here to gain knowledge and information, and they are grateful to have it. But they are taken aback by the scolding, shaming, and condescending personal put downs. It's very possible to impart knowledge in a civil, conversational tone. When the discussion takes on an angry or rude tone, with the personal attacks, then people like the OP will speak up. -- Daryl

 

[TheBigA]

But they are taken aback by the scolding, shaming, and condescending personal put downs.

That sounds like a real world experience, People may wonder what it's like to make these kinds of decisions professionally, and the answer is there's a lot of scolding, shaming, and condescension. If you want to know how good your opinions are, just post them on a message board and see how they hold up. You might get an honest response.

 

[Mikey Radio]

That is some small consolidation. Most positions weren't even available to me, and those who were and I interviewed for were passed over for those with more experience.

For better or worse, there are some professions where it's more about who you know, where you've been, where you've worked and whom you've worked with, rather than a piece of paper from a college or a certificate saying you have knowledge. Radio Broadcasting, especially on the on-air side, even when jobs were more plentiful and many stations were local and had staff manning the board 24/7, has often been one of those. I've worked at stations where they sometimes did review resumes and listen to airchecks that were sent to them if they were thinking about building out their staff of part-timers or replacing somone in the coming weeks, but when they needed to quickly find a jock, announcer or staff member, the PD or station manager might have a drawer full of resumes, but the first question they'd often ask is "Who do we know that's good and available?"