Radio Discussions dialogue within forums

[michael hagerty]

For better or worse, there are some professions where it's more about who you know, where you've been, where you've worked and whom you've worked with, rather than a piece of paper from a college or a certificate saying you have knowledge. Radio Broadcasting, especially on the on-air side, even when jobs were more plentiful and many stations were local and had staff manning the board 24/7, has often been one of those. I've worked at stations where they sometimes did review resumes and listen to airchecks that were sent to them if they were thinking about building out their staff of part-timers or replacing somone in the coming weeks, but when they needed to quickly find a jock, announcer or staff member, the PD or station manager might have a drawer full of resumes, but the first question they'd often ask is "Who do we know that's good and available?"

And that makes sense. Hiring a perfect stranger should be done with care. If you have an immediate opening and there’s someone you know and trust who’s available, that’s a much safer bet.

 

[tall_guy1]

For better or worse, there are some professions where it's more about who you know, where you've been, where you've worked and whom you've worked with, rather than a piece of paper from a college or a certificate saying you have knowledge. Radio Broadcasting, especially on the on-air side, even when jobs were more plentiful and many stations were local and had staff manning the board 24/7, has often been one of those. I've worked at stations where they sometimes did review resumes and listen to airchecks that were sent to them if they were thinking about building out their staff of part-timers or replacing somone in the coming weeks, but when they needed to quickly find a jock, announcer or staff member, the PD or station manager might have a drawer full of resumes, but the first question they'd often ask is "Who do we know that's good and available?"

That is probably true. The degree (a comm./ broadcast degree) unfortunately did not lend itself to other Comm. type jobs either, which is how I got into blue collar work. If I could go back and do something back then to potentially lead to a different outcome, I would...but it is too late. There are some openings at my forklift company, so hopefully at least the comm. side comes in use, or else I might have to go back to school for something else.

 

[davideduardo]

That is probably true. The degree (a comm./ broadcast degree) unfortunately did not lend itself to other Comm. type jobs either, which is how I got into blue collar work. If I could go back and do something back then to potentially lead to a different outcome, I would...but it is too late. There are some openings at my forklift company, so hopefully at least the comm. side comes in use, or else I might have to go back to school for something else.

The real issue here is that any field of endeavor that requires creativity, personality and some kind of charisma or image requires more than a college degree as none of those qualities is learnable in formal education. And, to a much greater extent than most careers, the formal classwork does not reach or even discuss those talents.

Like in the movies, there are hundreds of best boys and grips and gaffers for every starring performer.

 

[Daryl Lynn L.A.]

That sounds like a real world experience, People may wonder what it's like to make these kinds of decisions professionally, and the answer is there's a lot of scolding, shaming, and condescension. If you want to know how good your opinions are, just post them on a message board and see how they hold up. You might get an honest response.

Radio broadcasting is part of the realm of performing arts. Sometimes, work environments in the performing arts can be very stressful, because talented people with strong creative visions get crosswise into disputes about creative differences with other artists. That's when the yelling and insults start. So, some workplaces in radio, television, film, etc. can be very toxic. Or, they were in the past, before research started to happen in the effects that a toxic workplace can have on employees.

But, this is an internet discussion board, where the purpose is social interaction and congenial conversation. It's not a high stakes performing arts venue with millions of dollars on the line or creative differences between artists that can cause a performance to win or lose, with a loss of money.
So, it should be possible for people to disagree in a civil manner without being disagreeable. This is a board for social chat, and hopefully internet friendships.

 

[Kelly A]

So, it should be possible for people to disagree in a civil manner without being disagreeable. This is a board for social chat, and hopefully internet friendships.

If you want to talk-about, and potentially learn something about radio as an industry, this is the place to discuss all things media. If you're looking for a friend; get a dog.
And "performing arts"?? You obviously haven't worked much, or at all in the business.
Working at a Top40 station back in the 70's, there was a sign on the wall that said it all:
"Radio is a long plastic hallway, where pimps and thieves run free, and weak men die like dogs"
Performing arts? Now that's funny.

 

[TheBigA]

But, this is an internet discussion board, where the purpose is social interaction and congenial conversation.

What I've found about this discussion board is that people are passionate about the topics they discuss. It might be passion about a particular genre of music, or it might be passion about a particular radio station. They're dedicated and passionate about it. That leads to, as you say, "creative disputes" that can be every bit as deep as a work situation. That's what the OP is talking about.

 

[Mikey Radio]

It's also worth noting that Radio Broadcasting, at it's core, has traditionally always been a competitive business and industry. Some of these points may not pertain to every station or 'group', and some may not be as relevant in 2023 as they were in the past, but you get the idea: GMs or ops managers compete for the best staff, to have the best/most efficient operation and try and make their station(s) as profitable as can be, while also trying to "beat" the other competing signals in their market; Sales people compete for the highest sales numbers and other metrics; PDs and MDs are competing to get the best possible ratings for the station, depending on circumstances (yes, I know there are exceptions) and manage many areas of their business with that end goal. Engineers are competing to have the best-sounding signal in a given market and most try and keep up on latest technologies and industry standards for equipment (again, I know this isn't always a "thing" of late with 1 engineer covering a heap of stations and budget limitations); Jocks and on-air staff compete for the best shifts, most exposure, best possible ratings, they may be trying to get their voice on stations in other markets if they work for a larger company to get more exposure and increase their paychecks, etc. Ultimately, most all the people listed above are also trying to maintain jobs and prove their worth in an increasingly competitive industry and marketplace.

While I'm sure the regulars on this board can pick many of those apart, the point is that many facets of Radio Broadcasting involve competition, opinions and debate. Strong opinions form about what's "best" - Music selection and rotation, equipment and systems choices, how a station should position itself, how the jocks should sound and their presentation, who'd do the best job in each daypart and why and the long list goes on. Debates among the staff sometimes happen, professional jealousy sometimes ensues either between stations or among their own staff, etc. BUT, that doesn't mean all or even most stations are "toxic environments" and I've seen employees both on- and off-air actually feed off all that and make themselves and their station as a whole, notably better in the process. Since so many on this site came from the broadcasting profession or are still involved in it, it makes sense that those kinds of opinions and debates will sometimes carry over here. And as stated in my post above with the coffee shop analogy, some will be stronger in their delivery, others will have the experience and earned their "lumps" over the course of their careers to carry a heavier weight, etc.

 

[tall_guy1]

It's also worth noting that Radio Broadcasting, at it's core, has traditionally always been a competitive business and industry. Some of these points may not pertain to every station or 'group', and some may not be as relevant in 2023 as they were in the past, but you get the idea: GMs or ops managers compete for the best staff, to have the best/most efficient operation and try and make their station(s) as profitable as can be, while also trying to "beat" the other competing signals in their market; Sales people compete for the highest sales numbers and other metrics; PDs and MDs are competing to get the best possible ratings for the station, depending on circumstances (yes, I know there are exceptions) and manage many areas of their business with that end goal. Engineers are competing to have the best-sounding signal in a given market and most try and keep up on latest technologies and industry standards for equipment (again, I know this isn't always a "thing" of late with 1 engineer covering a heap of stations and budget limitations); Jocks and on-air staff compete for the best shifts, most exposure, best possible ratings, they may be trying to get their voice on stations in other markets if they work for a larger company to get more exposure and increase their paychecks, etc. Ultimately, most all the people listed above are also trying to maintain jobs and prove their worth in an increasingly competitive industry and marketplace.

While I'm sure the regulars on this board can pick many of those apart, the point is that many facets of Radio Broadcasting involve competition, opinions and debate. Strong opinions form about what's "best" - Music selection and rotation, equipment and systems choices, how a station should position itself, how the jocks should sound and their presentation, who'd do the best job in each daypart and why and the long list goes on. Debates among the staff sometimes happen, professional jealousy sometimes ensues either between stations or among their own staff, etc. BUT, that doesn't mean all or even most stations are "toxic environments" and I've seen employees both on- and off-air actually feed off all that and make themselves and their station as a whole, notably better in the process. Since so many on this site came from the broadcasting profession or are still involved in it, it makes sense that those kinds of opinions and debates will sometimes carry over here. And as stated in my post above with the coffee shop analogy, some will be stronger in their delivery, others will have the experience and earned their "lumps" over the course of their careers to carry a heavier weight, etc.

Some might look at some stations through a postmodernist lens, as stations tend to only choose one "lane" while other people look at the situation differently.

 

[Kelly A]

Some might look at some stations through a postmodernist lens, as stations tend to only choose one "lane" while other people look at the situation differently.

Some may look at it through a proctologist lens; backwards and inside out.

 

[AbrahamJSimpson]

Some might look at some stations through a postmodernist lens, as stations tend to only choose one "lane" while other people look at the situation differently.

They choose an audience and work to deliver it.

 

[VMan]

I was really tempted to use ol' Orange Julius as an example, but the Message Of The Day yesterday (at the top of the page) had warned us off delving too deeply into politics. (But if ever the concept of Karma was on point...)

Actually the guy I really had in mind is the moderator of an entirely different message board. He would make posts that corrected or challenged him just completely evaporate, even when he was verifiable wrong. Very thin-skinned and, in that way, immature.

What on earth does evoking the former president, as several of you have done, have to do with broadcasting? It’s beyond ironic that an original post asking why certain topics turn political for no reason ... did exactly that?

For those of us that enjoy writers’ opinions about radio, why should we have to wade through your political opinions? As soon as I see a thread has turned political, I bail out, and I suspect others do.

My advice is to stop being “too hip for the room” and just give us what you’ve got, without the politics.

 

[Daryl Lynn L.A.]

If you want to talk-about, and potentially learn something about radio as an industry, this is the place to discuss all things media. If you're looking for a friend; get a dog.
And "performing arts"?? You obviously haven't worked much, or at all in the business.
Working at a Top40 station back in the 70's, there was a sign on the wall that said it all:
"Radio is a long plastic hallway, where pimps and thieves run free, and weak men die like dogs"
Performing arts? Now that's funny.

Wait a sec.
Radio station are on the air for the purposes of informing and entertaining the listening audience. Radio is a form of entertainment. Entertaining an audience with music, comedy, or conversation is a performing art. Yes? Is there a reason that a radio personality is not an entertainer?

No, I haven't worked in the business. But I never said that I worked in the business. So, why is radio not a form of entertaining an audience and therefore not a performing art?
I'm talking about the air talent. Are they not performers?

Is there a reason that people cannot have a friendly conversation? Or, I have to get a dog? That is a strange instruction on a social chat board, set up for the purpose of socializing and having a dialog.

"Radio is a long plastic hallway, where pimps and thieves run free, and weak men die like dogs".
Sounds like something Hunter S. Thompson wrote for Rolling Stone. Either that, or B. Mitch Reed on a bad day.
Do you agree with this; and if so, could you explain your bitterness?
If so, do you regret your years in radio, or are you bitter about your career?

 

[Kelly A]

Wait a sec.
Radio station are on the air for the purposes of informing and entertaining the listening audience. Radio is a form of entertainment. Entertaining an audience with music, comedy, or conversation is a performing art. Yes? Is there a reason that a radio personality is not an entertainer?

You're trying to glamorize something that isn't. Elliott in the Morning, Howard Stern, Ryan Seacrest, Ellen K, Bill Handel, Rover's Morning Show, whatever; are radio talk/entertainment programming. Many are syndicated TO radio stations, or are structurally their own independent companies. It's like BigA's point (many times) about music's relationship to radio: Radio doesn't create the music, it delivers it to the general public, then sells advertising/underwriting to pay for it.

No, I haven't worked in the business.

Clearly.

Is there a reason that people cannot have a friendly conversation? Or, I have to get a dog? That is a strange instruction on a social chat board, set up for the purpose of socializing and having a dialog.

I'm neither dissuading nor condoning your personal interaction with other's on some discussion board. The dog was a suggestion of a better place to find a friend, than some textual medium like a discussion board.

"Radio is a long plastic hallway, where pimps and thieves run free, and weak men die like dogs".
Sounds like something Hunter S. Thompson wrote for Rolling Stone. Either that, or B. Mitch Reed on a bad day.
Do you agree with this; and if so, could you explain your bitterness?

There you go again, assuming "bitterness" based on a textual comment. If you had actually worked in the business for as long as I have, including station ownership, you would also see the validity (albeit hyperbolic) with the saying. Just like the hospitality business, and I emphasize the term business, radio has always had a lot going on behind the curtain that some listener never sees. Some of it pretty unpleasant and seedy. If I had been "bitter" as you choose to define it, I wouldn't have been in it for my entire working career. And still am. Just because everything isn't sunshine and flowers, doesn't mean it's crap. Radio has always been an incredibly difficult business, especially since 2008. There are a lot of moving parts that you don't see as a listener.

If so, do you regret your years in radio, or are you bitter about your career?

Not at all. I've worked very hard, and radio/TV has been very good to me. But it hasn't come without a lot of personal and financial trials too. Especially, as I mentioned, after the business came out the other side of the 2008 recession and never recovered.

 

[TheBigA]

Is there a reason that people cannot have a friendly conversation?

It depends on the person.

 

[tall_guy1]

That is the key. My background is in print, a 40+ year newspaper career, but I've always loved radio and everything about it. I've learned tons from the professionals on this board. Some of what they've written over the years has been hard for me to accept and I do occasionally challenge their assertions, but almost all the time, their explanations make logical sense and I accept them, even if deep down I still have my doubts.

There's only so much a hamburger eater can know about the hamburger he's eating if he's never worked anywhere in the meat business, even if he fancies himself a hamburger connoisseur. And whether the eater disapproves of some aspect of the business and thinks that hamburgers would be better if things were different, that doesn't change the reality of what's happening on the farms, in the slaughterhouses, in the packing plants, in the supermarkets, etc. Same goes for radio. When you argue that radio would somehow be "better" if something that's never worked before -- or even been tried before -- were the way things are done, you're just writing radio fan-fic. At some point, reality needs to be accepted and you move on and find easier windmills to tilt at. The pros here have no reason to lie to the fans.

In terms of those factory farms though, those conditions are pretty horrid! Even if it is ecomically sound, I would totally rail against that on whatever "forum" that is!

 

[Kelly A]

In terms of those factory farms though, those conditions are pretty horrid! Even if it is ecomically sound, I would totally rail against that on whatever "forum" that is!

Forum list

Forum4Farming - Britain & Ireland Farming Forum, Agricultural Discussion Boards. IE & UK

www.forum4farming.com

 

[tall_guy1]

Forum list

Forum4Farming - Britain & Ireland Farming Forum, Agricultural Discussion Boards. IE & UK

www.forum4farming.com

I'd better not. On there, I'd probably be even more bullish than I am on here!

 

[boombox4]

To the OP: First of all, welcome to RD, and I (along with others here) hope you stay.

First off, don't take any backlash personally. After all, this is a forum on the internet, and stuff happens.

That said, RD is a place for Radio "Discussion", and if radio fans come on here and get some facts wrong, or perhaps say things that go against the way radio is operated as a business, you're going to hear it, because getting corrected by people who know and have worked in the business for years is a valid part of the "discussion".

That doesn't mean you should have to be personally attacked by experts or others here if they are countering your opinions. Mr. Frank Berry, who owns this place, has stated more than once that he doesn't want this discussion forum to be a place for people to call each other names over the other's opinions -- no matter how faulty those ideas about radio, or opinions, may be. He said the following in the top thread of the Political Forum, and I would think it applies everywhere else on RD as well:

"Please be kind to each other and avoid name-calling and insults."

There are ways to get ideas across without attacking the other person or insinuating they are stupid, or calling them names.

That doesn't mean it always works out that way -- radio is full of people who love to talk (after all, it's radio), have strong opinions about things (after all, it's radio) and are passionate about the industry and what they do, or have done. Everyone here, after all, is human, and nobody's perfect.

If you come on here and say something that goes against the grind, and get flack for it, shrug it off. Maybe your opinion is one they've heard a million times before and tire of countering for the 1000th time. Or maybe the other poster was having a bad day. Cut 'em some slack. And hopefully someone cuts you some slack in return.

The experts here are well aware that RD has been used as a resource for Radio research, and consequently they're also very aware that namecalling, mudslinging -- the kind of stuff you may see on social media -- doesn't really fit in a forum populated by a lot of radio veterans and professionals, or a forum that can be used by other professionals for research. And 99.99% of the time they conduct themselves here in a professional, but lively manner here, something that befits radio.

I'll conclude by saying I think BigA said it well upthread. Try not to take stuff personally. Shrug it off, move on. Engage, learn, have fun.

 

[pumpin73]

You're taking it personally. We all love to talk about radio. That's why we're here. Some of us come from different experience levels. That's good for an open discussion, because there's an opportunity to learn something we might not have considered before. In that way, we all grow individually. So you came here with a certain knowledge base. Every time you engage, that knowledge base grows. Or it CAN grow, if you let it, and you're open to new ways of viewing things.

It isn't necessarily about taking it personally. It is the "If it isn't broke, don't fix it attitude." Just because someone has been in the industry for many years, doesn't mean they don't miss the mark. They are human just like everyone else. I feel as if people in radio don't listen to their listeners enough. I realize programmers and station owners have an obligation to TRY to make everyone (or most) listeners happy. But isn't one of the ways of doing that LISTENING to ALL of your audience? They don't have to take EVERY suggestion to heart, but they need to be aware of what is going on around them. There are many other sources to get music now days and I feel radio isn't doing enough to compete. The "If it isn't broke, don't fix it attitude" radio has now is going to end up being its downfall.

 

[pumpin73]

To the OP: First of all, welcome to RD, and I (along with others here) hope you stay.

First off, don't take any backlash personally. After all, this is a forum on the internet, and stuff happens.

That said, RD is a place for Radio "Discussion", and if radio fans come on here and get some facts wrong, or perhaps say things that go against the way radio is operated as a business, you're going to hear it, because getting corrected by people who know and have worked in the business for years is a valid part of the "discussion".

That doesn't mean you should have to be personally attacked by experts or others here if they are countering your opinions. Mr. Frank Berry, who owns this place, has stated more than once that he doesn't want this discussion forum to be a place for people to call each other names over the other's opinions -- no matter how faulty those ideas about radio, or opinions, may be. He said the following in the top thread of the Political Forum, and I would think it applies everywhere else on RD as well:

"Please be kind to each other and avoid name-calling and insults."

There are ways to get ideas across without attacking the other person or insinuating they are stupid, or calling them names.

That doesn't mean it always works out that way -- radio is full of people who love to talk (after all, it's radio), have strong opinions about things (after all, it's radio) and are passionate about the industry and what they do, or have done. Everyone here, after all, is human, and nobody's perfect.

If you come on here and say something that goes against the grind, and get flack for it, shrug it off. Maybe your opinion is one they've heard a million times before and tire of countering for the 1000th time. Or maybe the other poster was having a bad day. Cut 'em some slack. And hopefully someone cuts you some slack in return.

The experts here are well aware that RD has been used as a resource for Radio research, and consequently they're also very aware that namecalling, mudslinging -- the kind of stuff you may see on social media -- doesn't really fit in a forum populated by a lot of radio veterans and professionals, or a forum that can be used by other professionals for research. And 99.99% of the time they conduct themselves here in a professional, but lively manner here, something that befits radio.

I'll conclude by saying I think BigA said it well upthread. Try not to take stuff personally. Shrug it off, move on. Engage, learn, have fun.

Thanks for responding. I don't mind an open dialogue, but it goes BOTH ways. Rather than cutting someone down based on what they say; ask them why they feel the way they do. Then explain in a professional manner the way things are done. That doesn't mean there isn't room for improvement in the radio industry. Maybe I am being naive, but I thought radio was supposed the AUDIENCE, not a few shareholders.