Caribbean Music

[BJSteigner]

Since WVIP is flipping to a Christian format, where will the Caribbean Music format end up??
This is sad to see WVIP the Caribbean scene. I will also miss the station for playing Dancehall mixshows on weekends.

 

[davideduardo]

Since WVIP is flipping to a Christian format, where will the Caribbean Music format end up??
This is sad to see WVIP the Caribbean scene. I will also miss the station for playing Dancehall mixshows on weekends.

There is much more than one kind of Caribbean music. First, there is language: Kreyol, French, English, Spanish, Papiamentu, even Dutch. Then there is the region: Windward Islands, Greater Antilles, Jamaica, and the coastal Caribbean from Suriname to Mexico.

Everything from Salsa and Merengue to Calypso and Dancehall and Reggaetón are all Caribbean music styles.

 

[lanceventa]

There is much more than one kind of Caribbean music. First, there is language: Kreyol, French, English, Spanish, Papiamentu, even Dutch. Then there is the region: Windward Islands, Greater Antilles, Jamaica, and the coastal Caribbean from Suriname to Mexico.

Everything from Salsa and Merengue to Calypso and Dancehall and Reggaetón are all Caribbean music styles.

WVIP is 24/7 brokered programming. Most of it is Jamaican reggae, but there are shows from others. "Carribbean" is a catch-all format descriptor for the station that has been used for decades.

 

[davideduardo]

WVIP is 24/7 brokered programming. Most of it is Jamaican reggae, but there are shows from others. "Carribbean" is a catch-all format descriptor for the station that has been used for decades.

So it's about as inaccurate and generic as saying "Latin Music". Gotcha! 😄

 

[OriginalSample]

Or saying Hispanic

 

[Cordelia Chase]

So it's about as inaccurate and generic as saying "Latin Music". Gotcha! 😄

Is it any more inaccurate or generic than saying "Country Music?" For general information about the format, the descriptor "Country Music" is sufficient. Anyone wishing to explore subgenres like Bakersfield, Nashville, Red Dirt, Canadian or Australian, would, A. have to recognize that there is a difference, and B. be willing to dig deeper to get specifics themselves.


(I'd challenge you to point out the differences between East Coast and West Coast Rap, but something tells me you'd actually be able to do it, LOL.)

 

[Cordelia Chase]

There is much more than one kind of Caribbean music. First, there is language: Kreyol, French, English, Spanish, Papiamentu, even Dutch. Then there is the region: Windward Islands, Greater Antilles, Jamaica, and the coastal Caribbean from Suriname to Mexico.

Everything from Salsa and Merengue to Calypso and Dancehall and Reggaetón are all Caribbean music styles.

IIRC, you made a similar observation about the vagueness of the term "World Music." No one is trying to diminish the importance of different musical styles or the diverse groups of people behind them. But there simply isn't enough time to delve into the finer points of every genre all of the time.

 

[CTListener]

And no one thinks of Jamaicans and reggae (and ska, dancehall, dub, etc.) when they hear terms like "Hispanic" and "Latin," any more than they do when they hear "Spanish." But "Caribbean"? That's a geographical term, and to me, any station that plays music or does talk programming originating from or of interest to people with ancestors from that area can be described as "Caribbean" every time.

 

[Barry]

WWRL and WLIB had formats oriented toward listeners from the Caribbean. Of course WWRL, now owned by IHeart, carries the Black Information Network. And WLIB’s owners apparently find it preferable to play Gospel music, when it isn’t running brokered shows.
And there are still numerous unlicensed stations in the local neighborhoods with large populations from Caribbean islands.
Perhaps some of the brokered shows that were on WVIP FM will appear on WPAT AM, which carries a wide variety of leased programming. Or maybe an HD subchannel, like the one that is currently on WVIP HD3.

 

[BJSteigner]

WWRL and WLIB had formats oriented toward listeners from the Caribbean. Of course WWRL, now owned by IHeart, carries the Black Information Network. And WLIB’s owners apparently find it preferable to play Gospel music, when it isn’t running brokered shows.
And there are still numerous unlicensed stations in the local neighborhoods with large populations from Caribbean islands.
Perhaps some of the brokered shows that were on WVIP FM will appear on WPAT AM, which carries a wide variety of leased programming. Or maybe an HD subchannel, like the one that is currently on WVIP HD3.

WWRL was an Urban station that people overlooked. It also leaned heavily into the Afro-Caribbean music scene at night. WLIB was the goto station for that same Afro-Caribbean format. This is what I miss the most before WVIP took over the music scene.

 

[davideduardo]

Or saying Hispanic

Remember, "Hispanic" is a U.S. Federal Government construct made to comply with a wide range of "equality" legislation and regulation during the 70's.

Those laws required the quantification of minority groups, but at that time we had Census data on Blacks, Asians, Native Americans and Pacific Island based on race, but no separate data on persons from Spanish speaking nations or people in the US who were current or heritage Spanish speakers.

Since the category covers, potentially, every race on the planet the government was faced with a category now protected by law that overlapped races. So they came up with a recycled and obsolete term based on the Iberian peninsula, Hispania. It seemed neutral and able to be redefined, so the bureaucrats (emphasis on the last four letters in that term) decided that the 1980 Census would ask a separate question separate from "race" about being "Y/N" Hispanic.

And there you have your tax dollars at work, figuring out how to separate rather than join us through the miracles of terminology.

 

[davideduardo]

(I'd challenge you to point out the differences between East Coast and West Coast Rap, but something tells me you'd actually be able to do it, LOL.)

I could, and have actually researched it... but that is one of those rabbit holes I'd rather not jump into again, as laden as it is with the potential to be called all kinds of names for just analyzing cultural trends. First I do LOL and then I feel like crying...

 

[davideduardo]

IIRC, you made a similar observation about the vagueness of the term "World Music." No one is trying to diminish the importance of different musical styles or the diverse groups of people behind them. But there simply isn't enough time to delve into the finer points of every genre all of the time.

But there is a way of narrowing it such as at least specifying the language or region. I think in this case, we are talking about English language Caribbean music, not Salsa and Merengue.

 

[davideduardo]

And no one thinks of Jamaicans and reggae (and ska, dancehall, dub, etc.) when they hear terms like "Hispanic" and "Latin," any more than they do when they hear "Spanish." But "Caribbean"? That's a geographical term, and to me, any station that plays music or does talk programming originating from or of interest to people with ancestors from that area can be described as "Caribbean" every time.

3 of my 4 daughters are from Puerto Rico and I have extended family there, too. None of them think of themselves as "Caribbean" unless they are "deeply probed".

 

[Barry]

I wish the American pop music charts were more open to influences from other countries. It‘s a nice change of pace when the occasional tune in Spanish gets lots of spins. The recent Afrobeat influenced hit “Calm Down,” by Rema was like a breath of fresh air.

 

[CTListener]

3 of my 4 daughters are from Puerto Rico and I have extended family there, too. None of them think of themselves as "Caribbean" unless they are "deeply probed".

But that's the geographical area they are from. Their island is in the Caribbean. What they think of themselves as is irrelevant.

 

[OriginalSample]

Remember, "Hispanic" is a U.S. Federal Government construct made to comply with a wide range of "equality" legislation and regulation during the 70's.

Those laws required the quantification of minority groups, but at that time we had Census data on Blacks, Asians, Native Americans and Pacific Island based on race, but no separate data on persons from Spanish speaking nations or people in the US who were current or heritage Spanish speakers.

Since the category covers, potentially, every race on the planet the government was faced with a category now protected by law that overlapped races. So they came up with a recycled and obsolete term based on the Iberian peninsula, Hispania. It seemed neutral and able to be redefined, so the bureaucrats (emphasis on the last four letters in that term) decided that the 1980 Census would ask a separate question separate from "race" about being "Y/N" Hispanic.

And there you have your tax dollars at work, figuring out how to separate rather than join us through the miracles of terminology.

Yes, Hispania is what the Romans called the Iberian Peninsula and where Spain gets its modern day name. And the word is Hebrew in origin for island of rabbits that the Carthaginians borrowed. It’s been a while since I studied the History of Spain. The Greeks called it Iberia after the Ebro river before the Roman conquest.

At any rate, I have no recent ties to Spain. On both sides of my family we go back to 5 or 6 generations in Puerto Rico (and most likely longer). I always viewed myself as Puerto Rican if asked about my ethnicity. And American overall since I was raised here primarily. After all, when I talked to Brits or Canadians that’s how they categorize me.

But I get it. The groups that lobbied for this designation did so after being undercounted severely. There was a contentious debate whether Latin American or Hispanic should be used on the 1980 census. Hispanic won out, largely by advocates that had recent kin from Spain.

I prefer Latino over Hispanic. It’s more accurate culturally and geographically of where my family comes from.

 

[davideduardo]

But that's the geographical area they are from. Their island is in the Caribbean. What they think of themselves as is irrelevant.

I'm pointing to perceptions used in radio to identify content and, thus, aid in attracting listeners.

"Caribbean music" as a title will not attract Puerto Ricans... or Dominicans or Cubans for that matter. Naming the specific type of music may, depending on each person's taste. The Caribbean is filled with stations that don't play any music that is specific to that geographical area.

 

[davideduardo]

But I get it. The groups that lobbied for this designation did so after being undercounted severely. There was a contentious debate whether Latin American or Hispanic should be used on the 1980 census. Hispanic won out, largely by advocates that had recent kin from Spain.

I never heard anything except that the term was a compromise between groups who wanted to not use "Latin" derivatives and to avoid confusion with Portuguese speakers of persons of Portuguese and Brazilian heritage.

I was on a local committee in Puerto Rico at the time as I was manager and programmer of 11-Q and Z-93 and had been the instigator of having San Juan ranked in national population lists. The real issue was the discussion of whether to use a Spanish word, like "Latino" or not.

The deciding factor was that "Hispanic" could be attributed to the long-time usage of "Hispanoamerica" as a term specific to Spain's area of influence and not confusable with "Latin America" which incorporated Spain, Portugal and even France into the geographic areas.

There was conversation at the national level about such things as people from Hispanoamerica who spoke indigenous languages. Also brought up was the issue that the term had to cover all races and combinations due to immigration.

The end result was the thought that "Hispanic" covered peoples from a region or of an origin from a region where the predominant or official language for the last four and a half centuries had been Spanish. Everyone was content, but nobody was thrilled. But we accepted that something had to be done to allow the 1980 census to proceed

I never heard about people with recent kinship with Spaniards had anything to do with that. The last Spanish migrations to the "new world" had pretty much ended in the later 19th Century, so that was several generations away from anyone that was part of the process.

I prefer Latino over Hispanic. It’s more accurate culturally and geographically of where my family comes from.

And my family, on both sides, prefers the name of the country.... they are of and from Mexico, Ecuador and Puerto Rico. They will all use those names first, and only use Hispanic if on a form or something official that demands it.

 

[CTListener]

The deciding factor was that "Hispanic" could be attributed to the long-time usage of "Hispanoamerica" as a term specific to Spain's area of influence and not confusable with "Latin America" which incorporated Spain, Portugal and even France into the geographic areas.

And then you have Hispaniola, an island that is home to two nations with vastly different histories, languages and cultures: Haiti and the Dominican Republic. Haiti is a former French colony and its people speak two languages: French and Kreyol. Dominicans are also bilingual, speaking Spanish and Baseball.

Come to think of it, if people from the Dominican Republic are Dominicans, what are people from the island of Dominica called?