Seattle-Tacoma Radio Ratings: August 2023

[boombox4]

BIN's cume drops. The Sound continues to hold itself together. Not bad for a format that many believed would just be a temporary placeholder.

RE: KPNW: Yes, they probably need to reach out and notify potential listeners to gain more of them. I.e., advertise. Shouldn't be too difficult in the internet age. I have a feeling that not too many GenZ and Millennial people cruise the dial, lookin' for new tunes. They do the equivalent on Pandora, Spotify and YouTube instead. They maybe need to be reached out to before they will take a listen.

Then you have KEXP having been already well established.

 

[fordranger797]

I'm not Bob, but the answer to your question is 413,000. And growing.

With a two rimshot FMs (a Regional Mexican and a religious broadcaster), another weak FM out of Covington, and a couple AMs catering to that audience. Granted, many of those folks are second generation, and probably a considerable amount of 3rd Generation people, many of whom may not know all that much Spanish.

Anything is possible, but if a full market FM pops up, it’s going to be difficult to sustain some of the other stations we already have. I’d have to imagine that someone else would close up shop as fragmentation occurs. 102.9 and 99.3 can co-exist since they are both Bustos assets. But competition could be problematic.

 

[fordranger797]

Knowing Lotus as I do, I think it's much more likely they flip one or both AM signals to sports, leaving the news format to 97.7 and the conservative talk listeners hanging. I highly doubt that's going to happen though. When Click went away, the speculation was that 98.9 was going to go sports, and I thought then that it wouldn't happen. I don't see how the landscape has significantly changed since then, so don't see that happening. Actually though now that I think about it, Hubbard could put the sports betting format currently running on 98.9 HD2 on analog, but to me 880 is the more logical place for that. Regardless I'm not sure my head would explode with another sports station in the market, my main issue with 93.3 is that at least from what data we as the public can see, they're not doing any better or worse than they were on 950. If they're doing any better, that number is buried deep in the numbers that only the folks at iHeart can see. I do think it would be a tough go for a new sports station though. If another one does come to town, it'll be sports betting.

On the topic of sports, sure, there’s room for more if someone wanted to do it. It sells, so it could be done. With that being said, I’m no sure anyone would be chomping at the bit to put more canned national sports on one of their best frequencies. KJR is on 93.3 because it sells, and it performs well with a mixture of local hosts and local programming. 950 is now a collection of whatever is left over (national programming, and other content that isn’t as attractive). I’m sure they make money off of it, but it’s not their bread and butter.

 

[fordranger797]

Back to KPMW, I admit I’m part of the problem (and I’m personally a fan of AAA). I definitely check out 98.9 to see what’s on, but admittedly, I get into the car sometimes and tune into other stations when I’m not really in the mood for music discovery. PPM doesn’t lie. But if this were the days of dairies, I’d probably write down KPNW as one of my most listened-to radio stations because I perceive it to be. PPM would tell you that this isn’t true. PPM ultimately led to KMTT’s downfall, and it’s not hard to see why.

I hope the new direction works out for them. I genuinely enjoy listening, but it requires a different musical pallet.

 

[Kelly A]

I'm not aware that Lotus has a reason to sell either station.

Exactly. They got those stations on a sweetheart deal.

 

[DrJerry]

Back to KPMW, I admit I’m part of the problem (and I’m personally a fan of AAA). I definitely check out 98.9 to see what’s on, but admittedly, I get into the car sometimes and tune into other stations when I’m not really in the mood for music discovery. PPM doesn’t lie. But if this were the days of dairies, I’d probably write down KPNW as one of my most listened-to radio stations because I perceive it to be. PPM would tell you that this isn’t true. PPM ultimately led to KMTT’s downfall, and it’s not hard to see why.

I hope the new direction works out for them. I genuinely enjoy listening, but it requires a different musical pallet.

Those are definitely valid points about PPM. But I still find myself wondering why if AAA can do pretty well in places like Portland and even Chicago, why not Seattle? Demographically, it seems like a fit. Perhaps KEXP is stealing the show?

 

[guruofradio]

I doubt much will change until 2024 for any station. It does appear there is only room for one Country station (THE WOLF) and one AAA in Seattle (KEXP). The total cume for either format doesn't seem big enough to sustain two which may be part of the issue for 98.9 when it was Country and now AAA. KNWN at some point will need a full market FM to compete with KIRO-FM and KUOW-FM especially if they want anyone under 55 to tune in. Election year 2024 would be the smartest time to make that move simulcasting with 101.5 or buying another non-performing full market signal. 97.7 (spotty downtown and north end at best) could be used for KVI-AM. 93.3 will stay the course, sports radio is not necessarily reliant on ratings for revenue. All speculation, smart money is on stations staying the course at least into 2024.

 

[fordranger797]

Those are definitely valid points about PPM. But I still find myself wondering why if AAA can do pretty well in places like Portland and even Chicago, why not Seattle? Demographically, it seems like a fit. Perhaps KEXP is stealing the show?

I think KEXP has a lot to do with it. I can understand why, but also not understand why at the same time. On one hand, KEXP is literally “all about the music.” On the other hand, I’ve listened to KEXP before and can’t see why anybody likes it. Every time I tune in, it’s a collection of bizarre music that I have no interest in. I wonder if some listeners force themselves to stay locked in on 90.3 just because they’re hipsters and want to like something different. Someone else commented on KEXP in a different thread, mentioning their strange “theme hours” and how it turns them off from listening. From where I’m standing, KPNW does AAA better and doesn’t push the boundaries too far.

Long story short, I’m not crazy about the college radio vibe. I used to volunteer for a college radio station before, and found it to be one of my most boring radio experiences to date.

 

[Kelly A]

I think KEXP has a lot to do with it. I can understand why, but also not understand why at the same time. On one hand, KEXP is literally “all about the music.” On the other hand, I’ve listened to KEXP before and can’t see why anybody likes it. Every time I tune in, it’s a collection of bizarre music that I have no interest in. I wonder if some listeners force themselves to stay locked in on 90.3 just because they’re hipsters and want to like something different. Someone else commented on KEXP in a different thread, mentioning their strange “theme hours” and how it turns them off from listening. From where I’m standing, KPNW does AAA better and doesn’t push the boundaries too far.

Long story short, I’m not crazy about the college radio vibe. I used to volunteer for a college radio station before, and found it to be one of my most boring radio experiences to date.

In my mind there are a couple of different ways to parse this: Radio listeners with esoteric music taste are limited in number as compared with the greater listening population. That means that a particular audience will likely be hanging around one familiar station, maybe occasionally jumping around to other stations. Adding another station that caters to the same listener, now breaks off a small chunk of that already limited listener base. The original familiar station still has the majority of the loyal listeners (when listening to radio in particular, not streaming). Remember too that the overall radio audience isn't growing in numbers, so the listener base is getting older. People die, leave town, etc., so all you have is that remaining base audience to serve.
Kind of like our discussion around Country: When it comes to any specific format, there is usually only one stand-alone winner. Unless other stations bring something other than music, like a popular morning show, you're just cutting the pie into smaller slices, understanding there's only so much pie to begin with.

 

[OldYeller]

In my mind there are a couple of different ways to parse this: Radio listeners with esoteric music taste are limited in number as compared with the greater listening population. That means that a particular audience will likely be hanging around one familiar station, maybe occasionally jumping around to other stations. Adding another station that caters to the same listener, now breaks off a small chunk of that already limited listener base. The original familiar station still has the majority of the loyal listeners (when listening to radio in particular, not streaming). Remember too that the overall radio audience isn't growing in numbers, so the listener base is getting older. People die, leave town, etc., so all you have is that remaining base audience to serve.
Kind of like our discussion around Country: When it comes to any specific format, there is usually only one stand-alone winner. Unless other stations bring something other than music, like a popular morning show, you're just cutting the pie into smaller slices, understanding there's only so much pie to begin with.

Great points. Mass appeal format vs niche format.
The AAA fight for listeners will be a long, costly battle. This is a slow crawl.

 

[phantomcume]

In my mind there are a couple of different ways to parse this: Radio listeners with esoteric music taste are limited in number as compared with the greater listening population.

I would also argue that the KMTT that this station is modeled after hasn’t existed for more than 15 years. In the Mountain’s final years, it was mix of KJR-FM and KZOK.

From a marketing perspective, it’s also a station that’s hard to define. It’s easy to explain what you will hear on Warm or the Jet or Movin. Given that this market hasn’t had this particular format in so long, I think it makes attracting an audience even more of an uphill climb.

Which is too bad. Given how much the radio audience has been shrinking it is nice to see someone try something different. But this needed to be finely tuned and marketed well right out of the gate.

 

[semoochie]

Maybe KPNW will change back to Country in a year or so.

The Bull's ratings went up significantly after the format change and weren't that bad before that. I think it's perfectly reasonable to think they would reconsider.

 

[TheBigA]

The Bull's ratings went up significantly after the format change and weren't that bad before that. I think it's perfectly reasonable to think they would reconsider.

As I've said, Hubbard is still paying Fitz and syndicating his national country show. I'm sure they'd love to have a station in Seattle.

 

[bobdavcav]

I doubt much will change until 2024 for any station. It does appear there is only room for one Country station (THE WOLF) and one AAA in Seattle (KEXP). The total cume for either format doesn't seem big enough to sustain two which may be part of the issue for 98.9 when it was Country and now AAA. KNWN at some point will need a full market FM to compete with KIRO-FM and KUOW-FM especially if they want anyone under 55 to tune in. Election year 2024 would be the smartest time to make that move simulcasting with 101.5 or buying another non-performing full market signal. 97.7 (spotty downtown and north end at best) could be used for KVI-AM. 93.3 will stay the course, sports radio is not necessarily reliant on ratings for revenue. All speculation, smart money is on stations staying the course at least into 2024.

Valid points, and I can't see any changes until after Christmas either. All, or most, of the changes I speculated on earlier assumed KPLZ continues to struggle like they have been for the past several books, but if they start trending up again, really the only question is what happens with 98.9.
Re: full market Spanish anything. I've said it before, the parts of the market that need stations in Spanish have them already. I was simply stating that in my mind, Lotus is more likely to do something in Spanish than sports on FM. Would I have flipped 93.3 to sports a year or so ago? I'm honestly not sure. Back then, the only other option I could have seen was to clone 107.9 Sacramento.

 

[Delete My Account]

Nuance to the KMTT flip to KHTP was that (at the time) Entercom wanted to move it to a more classic rock base ala their "Mountain" in Denver and compete more with KZOK. The Triple A Mountain wasn't flipped immediately because it wasn't working, it was simply that their owners felt it could do better with that approach under PPM.

Taking on KZOK and 95.7 didn't give their listeners much reason to flip, but gave the KMTT core reasons to go elsewhere. It satisfied no one, the ratings went down further, and the Mountain was a brand with a murky format. Their recognizable jocks left and then came KHTP.

KEXP is a world unto itself. While 20 years ago, it may have shared more with the audience KPNW wants, the modern KEXP has shifted from "AAA" or "indie" towards a very diverse music discovery "community" - if you look at the recent programming changes, most of the shows and DJs that they've set aside are more appealing to the KMTT/KPNW audience. They're not chasing the Triple A core if they ever did. What they do is valuable and obviously successful, but I wouldn't say it has much to do with the viability of a well programmed commercial Triple A like WXRT.

I also think one of the other non-comms like the secondary NWPR classical at 90.9 or KBCS could have seized the opportunity to grab the "pure Triple A" base and listener support before KPNW entered the picture but no one had that vision. Still, as the market supports public radio well, it could have been a solid niche. In which case, KPNW probably wouldn't have attempted Triple A at all.

It's genuinely great to have some of the DJs back on air in the market, especially Marco Collins. His "Friday Dance Party" segment is a fun addition to Fridays, and he sounds like he's having a good time. More than I can say for a lot of commercial music radio these days.

 

[crainbebo]

I'm not Bob, but the answer to your question is 413,000. And growing.

With a two rimshot FMs (a Regional Mexican and a religious broadcaster), another weak FM out of Covington, and a couple AMs catering to that audience. Granted, many of those folks are second generation, and probably a considerable amount of 3rd Generation people, many of whom may not know all that much Spanish.

That's still only 10% when you add up the 4 million+ who live in the Seattle-Tacoma Metro.

Yakima County is 50.6% Hispanic/Latino. What's interesting is the TRI-CITIES has a Grupera station and a Spanish/Bilingual CHR on a translator and rimshot. Yakima doesn't have anything close. Multiple Regional Mexican stations, La Estacion de La Familia (Spanish Religion), a couple of LPFM Spanish Religious stations too, including one in Toppenish at 100.3. And of course, KDNA. But no urbana/CHR-type format in Spanish. Most are listening to urban formats on their phones, I suppose, and I know 99.7 KHHK (rhythmic English CHR) does quite well with the younger Hispanic demographic.

 

[Kelly A]

Great points. Mass appeal format vs niche format.
The AAA fight for listeners will be a long, costly battle. This is a slow crawl.

Also in an already crowded market, being a conventional pure-ratings play may not be necessary.
Just as with Sports being a natural sale to ad agencies trying to reach 18-54M, this station could just be a market demo hole filler targeting affluent 25-54M/F. Sure, showing up up in those numbers would be nice, but not surprisingly, ultimately this forum may be concerned about nothing.

 

[Kelly A]

That's still only 10% when you add up the 4 million+ who live in the Seattle-Tacoma Metro.

Yakima County is 50.6% Hispanic/Latino. What's interesting is the TRI-CITIES has a Grupera station and a Spanish/Bilingual CHR on a translator and rimshot. Yakima doesn't have anything close. Multiple Regional Mexican stations, La Estacion de La Familia (Spanish Religion), a couple of LPFM Spanish Religious stations too, including one in Toppenish at 100.3. And of course, KDNA. But no urbana/CHR-type format in Spanish. Most are listening to urban formats on their phones, I suppose, and I know 99.7 KHHK (rhythmic English CHR) does quite well with the younger Hispanic demographic.

And that's a great point. With a documented 400,000 Hispanic population in the market, only roughly 3-5% of that would be within the demo and interested in a CHR format. And just like recent English CHR, the music may not be usable on radio due to language. That likely knocks another 2% potential audience out of the equation. A full class FM reaching only maybe 4,000 persons out of 4,000,000? Sounds like a losing plan to me.

 

[boombox4]

I think KEXP has a lot to do with it. I can understand why, but also not understand why at the same time. On one hand, KEXP is literally “all about the music.” On the other hand, I’ve listened to KEXP before and can’t see why anybody likes it. Every time I tune in, it’s a collection of bizarre music that I have no interest in. I wonder if some listeners force themselves to stay locked in on 90.3 just because they’re hipsters and want to like something different. Someone else commented on KEXP in a different thread, mentioning their strange “theme hours” and how it turns them off from listening. From where I’m standing, KPNW does AAA better and doesn’t push the boundaries too far.

Long story short, I’m not crazy about the college radio vibe. I used to volunteer for a college radio station before, and found it to be one of my most boring radio experiences to date.

Some of those "theme hours" are specialty shows. They had them at KCMU when I was there. I think some of them have carried over onto KEXP and still run today, although with different hosts.

Specialty shows seem to be a big thing on public radio, which, after all, KEXP is.

But your idea that people tune them out is understandable. I would hazard a guess that when I was there, the KCMU listeners who weren't into rap, metal, reggae, blues, or rockabilly might have tuned out for the hour and then tuned back in when the regular airshifts went back to playing more alt, punk, grunge, etc.

I think KPNW is trying to ride the fence between listeners who tune into KEXP for the alt and variety, and classic rock GenX'ers and older Millennials.

 

[pjc1961]

But if this were the days of dairies, I’d probably write down KPNW as one of my most listened-to radio stations because I perceive it to be.

Ah, yes, back when cows ruled the world - and the radio ratings service(s)!

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