Working out in Juarez/El paso for a few days and i have been listening to Latinx 94.3 when i looked into it i realized it's a translator licensed to el paso but when searching for the primary it turns out to be KSIL in rincon NM nowhere near El Paso i would say 2 hours away maybe. and i know translators are no meant to extend coverage. so is this a Illegal translator? or does it somehow qualify? Nice little coverage and i like the station but just seems strange.
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IS IT LEGAL? AND HOW?
- Thread starter radioislife2020
- Start date
Non-fill-in translators are permissible, so long as the ownership is not the same as the parent station and the parent station is not paying the translator for its service
These 2 stations are owned by the same company as can be seen. i dont think you are right I could not have a translator in San Antonio and feed it from a station in Houston if i don't own the primary.
They are not. KSIL is owned by Rincon Ventures LLC, and K232FC is owned by RF Services Inc.
I didn't look into who the stockholders of these two corporations are, so maybe they are trying to pull a fast one by using a shell company.
Still not sure i understand how this is legal if the primary signal is not even in the same market
This is the way most religious/educational and some non-religious/non-educational organizations broadcast programming. They have translators across the country that use programming originating from somewhere else. A fill-in translator has more strict rules regarding operation, in that they have to be within the service contour of the primary station. A non-fill-in translator, which is what this is, doesn't have to be within the contour of the primary station. The owner of the translator can use the signal from the originating station, in this case KSIL, to fill in a 'white' or unserved, area by getting permission from the originating station and getting a waiver from the FCC. The waiver will also allow the translator to receive the programming by other means since they are outside of the originating station's service contour.
got it. How would i go about seeing or knowing if a translator is a fill in translator or not?
About the only way is to look at the originating station and see if the translator falls in it's 60 dbu contour. If it does, it's a fill-in. If it doesn't, it's a non-fill-in.
Look at who owns the originating station, and if it is a non-profit operation it is likely that it can have translators outside the service area of that station. Perhaps Lance or Michi, who know a lot more on this subject, can expand on the way it works so all of us can learn!
OK.. see if you can answer this question. I dont know much about translator rules. Could KSIL (if they had a hd2 Could they feed another translator in the el paso market that is not a fill in translator?
That's going to have to come from Michi or someone above my pay grade. I would assume the same rules would apply that it has to serve a 'white' or unserved area and can't be owned by the originating station.
First, KSIL and K232FC (the translator at 94.3 in El Paso), are not owned by the same people, at least according to the documents I was able to find on the FCC website. Commercial non fill-in translators are legal provided they are not co-owned and that they capture the signal they're relaying over-the-air. I believe, as PT Board Op mentions, the owner of the translator is not allowed to be paid by the parent station to carry its signal either. Remember, just because you can't get KSIL off-air when driving around El Paso doesn't mean it's not possible for the translator to receive it. That translator would appear to be on top of a mountain, and that location can likely receive signals you can't receive at ground level.
Second, far as I know, the law doesn't prohibit relaying an HD2 signal on a commercial non fill-in translator. So, KSIL could feed another translator in the El Paso market so long as that hypothetical translator meets all required conditions, including not being co-owned with the parent signal and picking up the signal off-air. Not to say that none exist, but I'm not aware of any commercial non fill-in translators relaying a digital signal, though, probably at least partly because pure digital signals aren't generally known for their reliability. HD digital signals are typically more difficult to pick up off-air at a distance and tend to have more frequent drop-outs the farther away from the transmitter. The multicast channels, of course, also have an added obstacle in that they don't have an analog signal to fall back on when they drop out; when they're gone, they're just gone.
Finally, the way you would know if a translator is a fill-in or non fill-in service is by the signal contour of the parent station. If the translator's signal lies wholly inside the parent station's primary signal contour, it's a fill-in translator. If it lies partially or completely outside the parent station's primary signal contour, it's a non-fill-in translator.
Translator recieve sites also often multiple several very directional recieve antennas. you can do amazing things with a few antennas and some height.
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