HD1 BallPark mode

[xmtrland]

Any one using Ballpark when broadcasting Sports on an FM with HD1? I know how to switch to BallPark. It looks like a two step process, Turn off the delay on the analog FM processing (turn off the delay on the analog FM wherever you insert the delay) and turn on BallPark mode on the Importer/Exporter.

Reading about BallPark mode it turns off the HD1 delay that aligns it with the main analog FM and prevents the receiver from switching to HD1 if it is present. but does not actually turn off the HD1.

I'm curios how stations that use BallPark, switch in and out of the mode during a sporting event.

 

[Kelly A]

Any one using Ballpark when broadcasting Sports on an FM with HD1? I know how to switch to BallPark. It looks like a two step process, Turn off the delay on the analog FM processing (turn off the delay on the analog FM wherever you insert the delay) and turn on BallPark mode on the Importer/Exporter.

Reading about BallPark mode it turns off the HD1 delay that aligns it with the main analog FM and prevents the receiver from switching to HD1 if it is present. but does not actually turn off the HD1.

I'm curios how stations that use BallPark, switch in and out of the mode during a sporting event.

I've never used it, and don't see how it could work. You delay your analog audio by +8sec to match the digitally encoded HD-1 audio. Seems like the only way you could return the analog back to real time would be to suspend using the HD-1 stream. In that case, the station is analog-only. Encoding the HD audio takes roughly eight seconds, period.

 

[boiseengineer]

Was told long ago a mode was available to only send display data. Example would be for an AM station to show RDS like info without full HD.
For *sports on an AM we'd turn off the HD and since our delay was not in the exciter/exporter ramp it down. One command channel on the remote control.
Also had to separately ramp down the #$@^ delay at the studio.
*local games only

 

[Kelly A]

Was told long ago a mode was available to only send display data. Example would be for an AM station to show RDS like info without full HD.
For *sports on an AM we'd turn off the HD and since our delay was not in the exciter/exporter ramp it down. One command channel on the remote control.
Also had to separately ramp down the #$@^ delay at the studio.
*local games only

That's essentially what I was thinking; a way to quickly shut down the HD1 stream without having to go in and make changes in the importer, or exporter software UI, and then restart. One could set it up to switch modes quickly.
The only problem is that doesn't account for doing the same in the audio processing which, in most cases, is the device providing the analog delay. Also, I don't believe the analog audio delay returning to hybrid mode would ramp up, but more likely just go silent for eight seconds until built back up. In that case, to the listener, there would be eight seconds of silence until everything re-synced.

 

[HGR1290]

I used a small Netgear Ethernet switch to do this exact thing. I ran the Switch DC supply through a latching relay on my remote control. The switch was wired in to the E2X data flow from the exporter to the exciter. When the E2X data goes away, so do your IBOC carriers. Used it for numerous local football and basketball games. I used a macro to control the ethernet switch, and to ramp the IBOC/Analog diversity delay down to zero.

On some transmitters, this may produce a red status light.....but thats about it. Note that this will ALSO remove any HD2 , HD3 etc.

 

[Kelly A]

I used a small Netgear Ethernet switch to do this exact thing. I ran the Switch DC supply through a latching relay on my remote control. The switch was wired in to the E2X data flow from the exporter to the exciter. When the E2X data goes away, so do your IBOC carriers. Used it for numerous local football and basketball games. I used a macro to control the ethernet switch, and to ramp the IBOC/Analog diversity delay down to zero.

On some transmitters, this may produce a red status light.....but thats about it. Note that this will ALSO remove any HD2 , HD3 etc.

So, is your audio processing providing the 8-second analog delay? If so, how are you switching the exciter/exporter and stopping the audio processing delay at the same time? Then when the game is over, what does it sound like on the air when the 8 second analog audio delay returns?

 

[xmtrland]

Ballpark mode keeps the HD going but inhibits the radio from switching from the analog FM to the HD1 and ramps the delay for the HD down so it's just the delay of the encoding. The HD2 and beyond keep going. To make it effective, you would have to enable the Ballpark mode almost an hour before the start of the game. People entering the stadium who turn on their radio if it has HD the radio does not go to the HD1.

The sequence to enable would be to log into exporter enable Ballpark mode then turn off the delay on the analog FM either through the processor or transmitter depending on where the delay is added. Again to be effective you would have to do it well before the start of game, 30-60 minutes.

I was just wondering if any one was doing this for an FM station and how they did it elegantly. From what I can tell dumping the delay on the analog FM would be like the old school profanity delays before there was ramp down and ramp up.

Does Omnia 9 0r 11 have a delay ramp up/down. If you use for example a Nautel transmitter for your delay you would simply switch presets one with HD enable adding your analog delay and one with HD with no analog delay. From what I can tell it's a two step process involving the switching on Ballpark mode and disabling the delay on the analog signal. I'll have to log into the Optimods I have access to and see if there is a way to turn off the delay in a nice way. But overall it kinda looks like a pain going into and out of Ballpark mode.

 

[HGR1290]

I was using a Justin 808 for most of the delay. There was a second of delay in the audio proc. The 808 was told to slowly remove delay thru a closure. The one second delay in the audio processor was barely noticeable. When the game was over, the Justin was ramped back up. All in one Burk macro.

I think the Nautel Exporter plus has a GPIO port that allows delay up/delay down. So, you could probably tell it to do the same with closures. Not sure about other manufacturers, or some of the newer embedded exporters.

 

[Kelly A]

Does Omnia 9 0r 11 have a delay ramp up/down.

That's the thing, I don't think it does. You set the analog delay in the setup menu. Your routine would require going into the Omnia setup menu and zero out the analog delay settings. Once you change the setting to zero, you'll lose the eight seconds prior.
The same would happen going back into delay, except you would lose eight seconds of audio until it catches up.

If you use for example a Nautel transmitter for your delay you would simply switch presets one with HD enable adding your analog delay and one with HD with no analog delay.

The problem with using the Nautel exporter delay, is you'll risk the dreaded HD1 sync wandering between the analog and HD.

From what I can tell it's a two step process involving the switching on Ballpark mode and disabling the delay on the analog signal. I'll have to log into the Optimods I have access to and see if there is a way to turn off the delay in a nice way. But overall it kinda looks like a pain going into and out of Ballpark mode.

It really does. Might want to try it on a non-game situation to verify the process.

 

[speer360]

How many people actually listen to FM radios for Play by Play while watching at the event?

 

[Kelly A]

How many people actually listen to FM radios for Play by Play while watching at the event?

Anymore that's a great point. Although I have to admit, last Thanksgiving while attending the Seahawks game in Seattle, for a moment I was thinking how nice it would have been to hear the live PBP from the local flagship station rather than an occasional blurp from the PA announcer. But to your point; portable radios haven't been a thing for many years. You could probably count the number of attendees on one hand that would bring a portable radio, let alone be able to get it through security. Doubt if many of the security folks even know what one would look like.

 

[xmtrland]

For the record if you are able to bring an AM radio to Lumen field KIRO 710AM is in real time with the the Seahawks PbP of the game. Lumen field is an open air stadium so reception is possible but I have never tried myself. Since Ballpark mode is such a process to enable/disable. I have wondered if maybe adding more delay to the FM simulcast on KIRO FM so it matches the TV PbP might be an option.

I have noticed the TV broadcast can be almost 60 seconds or more behind the actual live game. So AM would be real time, FM delayed for listening at home while watching the game. Just a thought. Being in broadcast your always looking at options for the terrestrial signals. Using Ballpark is one option and it has been good seeing some of the feedback.

 

[xmtrland]

To further expand on why a station would want to be able to provide a listenable signal for a live home professional sports game, is to allow a vision impaired people to enjoy a live venue, but have the option to hear the "Radio" P-B-P, to enhance the experience of being at a live event. This has been brought to my attention a few times so I do believe a small radio would be allowed into a sporting event. Basketball comes to mind since it is in an indoor closed arena some stations have set up micro transmitter inside to accommodate listening to the live P-B-P the station provides.

I know cell phones are allowed in most stadiums, a small radio should not be that much different. I'll mention here that listening to a station stream is not the same because it has inherent delay due encoding and transport over the internet. Versus live un-delayed over the air.

 

[Kelly A]

I know cell phones are allowed in most stadiums, a small radio should not be that much different. I'll mention here that listening to a station stream is not the same because it has inherent delay due encoding and transport over the internet. Versus live un-delayed over the air.

Two thoughts Steve:
1. I'm not sure how well an AM receiver would work under the seating overhangs. I'd check it first with those new field lights on before doing much work on promoting it. Could be the noise floor would be a nightmare.
2. There's such a thing as a portable AM radio?? Oh yeah, grandpa said something about those back in the old days. Have no idea where to find one today.

 

[xmtrland]

If you need it, can't find it, Google it. Actually a lot of the headsets I see workers wearing have AM/FM radios in them. I bet I could walk into Harbor Freight and find one. Don't really want to go down that rabbit hole. Another reason to at least go through the thought process of what the sequence of events to use Ballpark mode for FM/HD1 is.

Turns out Optimod does have a assignable I/O to turn on/off the delay. but no ramp up/down. I'm sure Omnia has something to accommodate.

Discussion has been useful. Hadn't thought about the stadium lights.

I do have another question to through out there. Since LPB is not around that I can find to provide those 20-100 watt AM low power transmitters. Where do you find one if you were to need one. I know Google it and I have. My search dug up broadcasterswarehouse.com, pcs-electronics.com and srkelectronics.com.au. I know what I would do for a low power FM but not sure about AM if I had too or was paid to.

 

[MarioMania]

Why do stations broadcast sports in HD still?

There's like 8 sec delay, I don't like that at all

While my brother watches football, I listen on AM Radio

 

[Kelly A]

Why do stations broadcast sports in HD still?

There's like 8 sec delay, I don't like that at all

While my brother watches football, I listen on AM Radio

Good Lord. Read the entire thread.

 

[Kelly A]

I do have another question to through out there. Since LPB is not around that I can find to provide those 20-100 watt AM low power transmitters. Where do you find one if you were to need one. I know Google it and I have. My search dug up broadcasterswarehouse.com, pcs-electronics.com and srkelectronics.com.au. I know what I would do for a low power FM but not sure about AM if I had too or was paid to.

This is completely out in left field (pardon the sports venue pun), but I noted while at Lumon Field that T-Mobile had installed a ton of pizza box PCS systems all over the stadium aimed into the seats everywhere. In the case of Thanksgiving being a night game, they gave out these bracelets with green and blue LEDs to attendees which flashed in sequence during timeouts and (a pathetic) halftime. They were triggering the bracelets using the T-Mobile RF system.

Thinking about the goal of 'controlling the user experience'; what would likely be more effective than looking for fans to find antique devices for radio listening, would be to have your sales folks talk with T-Mobile about leveraging that pretty extensive T-Mobile RF network they've installed in the stadium. T-Mobile and KIRO could offer an app, or an add-in to the existing KIRO mobile app where attendees could stream the game in real-time from their phone. The station just sends T-Mobile a program dedicated non-delayed stream that could even have special in-arena spots or promotions just for KIRO and T-Mobile. It would be a win for the station being a sales partnership, and provide exactly what you're thinking of without attendees having to purchase or bring dedicated electronics or deal with noise and reception problems.

 

[xmtrland]

We already provide the real time audio for the PA/concourse feed when fans are out getting food at the concession area at both venues. I have to wonder if any audio delivered over the PCS system would be in actual real time or have a 2 second or more delay to the cell phone without a custom app/codec.

Just did some Googling, this actually falls under assisted listening devices, Houses of Worship, Venues with spoken word events. Closed loop FM is mentioned a lot in those type of systems. But there looks to be some breakthrough in WiFi delivered systems in real time. Have to say Good Suggestion Kelly! Now if I could think of large Church group that might employ such a system or might be a knowledge base to draw on....Hmm who should I contact. Actually I know who to talk to. The more I think about it the more I have to wonder if such a system hasn't been deployed in the past at either Venue in Seattle. I know Microsoft has company events at one of those venues wonder if such a system was used for listening or assisted listening.

Some good discussion in this thread. It has definitely expanded my thinking and possible solutions.

 

[Kelly A]

We already provide the real time audio for the PA/concourse feed when fans are out getting food at the concession area at both venues. I have to wonder if any audio delivered over the PCS system would be in actual real time or have a 2 second or more delay to the cell phone without a custom app/codec.

Just did some Googling, this actually falls under assisted listening devices, Houses of Worship, Venues with spoken word events. Closed loop FM is mentioned a lot in those type of systems. But there looks to be some breakthrough in WiFi delivered systems in real time. Have to say Good Suggestion Kelly! Now if I could think of large Church group that might employ such a system or might be a knowledge base to draw on....Hmm who should I contact. Actually I know who to talk to. The more I think about it the more I have to wonder if such a system hasn't been deployed in the past at either Venue in Seattle. I know Microsoft has company events at one of those venues wonder if such a system was used for listening or assisted listening.

Some good discussion in this thread. It has definitely expanded my thinking and possible solutions.

It sounds weird to say on a radio discussion board, but I'd forget using radio in the stadium, AM or FM. But, if you can make it work on the attendee's smartphones? Then it might be worth the effort. Especially if the sales department can hook a contract with T-Mobile as a business partner for the project. If the T-Mobile corporate guys push the low latency to the pizza-box network there at the stadium-plan, their engineers will be tasked to figure it out. I'll bet having the game played out the unique in-stadium network, you can get latency down to under a couple seconds, and any special in-arena content KIRO wants to air is kept inside the stadium for copyright reasons, creating more in-stadium NTR.
The whole idea is to eliminate the need for fan's having to bring in additional devices like portable radios, earphones, whatever.
You also get T-Mobile to help promote it. They would likely not be interested in promoting some FM church assisted listening system.