That's the licensed facility, but it's gone. You need to also look at current STA records, which show that it's been operating from West Orange at low power for over a year now.
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Status of WFME 1560?
- Thread starter MarcB
- Start date
it hasnt in over a year.... what it shows as licensed, doesnt mean thats what its operating with.. and theyve had an STA for 1 to 10kw for the last year or two.
It's... it's almost like someone said the exact same thing, except with apostrophes and capital letters, right in the post just above this.
I know a guy who always used to criticize posters who didn't read the rest of the thread first... 🤣
For whatever reason, your post didnt show till AFTER i posted mine.
It takes longer for those tiny electrons to get all the way to Alaska...
It’s Future Sound forum posting… the wave of the future! Just fire up that EMT-140 plate.
I knew there had to be a reason that I was getting such an exceptionally weak signal up here in Ontario at night. I was right to think that they were operating at lower than 1000 watts.
Apparently since June. STA request from May to lower to 500W due to causing interference to a nearby Goddard School. Amazing my little RADIWOW can sometimes pick them up listen-ably with a good fade in. Otherwise WGLB Milwaukee's 250W east-facing lobe across Lake MI dominates.
Apparently since June. STA request from May to lower to 500W due to causing interference to a nearby Goddard School. Amazing my little RADIWOW can sometimes pick them up listen-ably with a good fade in. Otherwise WGLB Milwaukee's 250W east-facing lobe across Lake MI dominates.
The saga continues.
Back on December 29th, Family Radio filed to reinstate and extend its STA to continue operating 1560 WFME from a temporary antenna at reduced power. WFME hasn’t yet been able to resolve the interference issues experienced at a nearby school due to the station’s operation at power levels higher than a kilowatt or so. This time they are seeking permission to continue the STA using 500 watts day and night. Usually that’s the end of it. The FCC issues another 6-month STA.
However an individual from Illinois has objected:
Albert David informal objection
In short, he has suggested that Family Radio should apply to downgrade the 1560 facility to class B. He states that by continuing these STA extensions, it blocks co-channel stations from possibly adding nighttime service, and that at 500 watts, the station is “failing to provide the levels of secondary service that clear-channel status is intended to protect and is not proving the public service that a Class A station is intended to provide.“
The WFME STA extension has not yet been approved.
Back on December 29th, Family Radio filed to reinstate and extend its STA to continue operating 1560 WFME from a temporary antenna at reduced power. WFME hasn’t yet been able to resolve the interference issues experienced at a nearby school due to the station’s operation at power levels higher than a kilowatt or so. This time they are seeking permission to continue the STA using 500 watts day and night. Usually that’s the end of it. The FCC issues another 6-month STA.
However an individual from Illinois has objected:
Albert David informal objection
In short, he has suggested that Family Radio should apply to downgrade the 1560 facility to class B. He states that by continuing these STA extensions, it blocks co-channel stations from possibly adding nighttime service, and that at 500 watts, the station is “failing to provide the levels of secondary service that clear-channel status is intended to protect and is not proving the public service that a Class A station is intended to provide.“
The WFME STA extension has not yet been approved.
How long will the FCC continue to grant the STA's? I know some stations have operated for years, like WPAT FM, but there were extenuating circumstances. Here it's just a matter of FR refusing to spend money that they have to address the issue.
D
Deleted member 108832
Guest
A 10kW AM in Houston has been doing so for over 2 years, from what's left of a damaged and partially collapsed tower left standing after Hurricane Alicia broke it in half in 1983.
They sold the land the array is on, so rebuilding an array in NYC area would cost millions. youre assuming alot.
it would be stupid to spend that much rebuilding an AM.
They need to diplex on another tower array somewhere
While nowhere near a record for STA extensions, WRKL in Rockland County has operated at reduced power under a series of STAs since the structural failure and collapse of one of their four towers in February 2017. The fallen tower remains in place, and the licensee sold the building and tower property in 2021.
Numerous STA requests (14, if I counted correctly) over the years alternated with short silent periods authorized, then resumed operations under a new STA. In the STA apps they’ve said they (a) may seek to modify the license, (b) may seek another transmitter location, or (c) may rebuild the collapsed tower, using one of these reasons in each request.
P.S. Current owner Cantico Nuevo has an active STA extension in effect right now, but in reality WRKL has been off the air for four weeks, and is overdue to file for silent status.
Numerous STA requests (14, if I counted correctly) over the years alternated with short silent periods authorized, then resumed operations under a new STA. In the STA apps they’ve said they (a) may seek to modify the license, (b) may seek another transmitter location, or (c) may rebuild the collapsed tower, using one of these reasons in each request.
P.S. Current owner Cantico Nuevo has an active STA extension in effect right now, but in reality WRKL has been off the air for four weeks, and is overdue to file for silent status.
Exactly, I wasn't expecting them to rebuild, but they should have cut a deal with another operator to diplex the station by now.
They own the land and a single tower in West Orange where they're at now. That is the former tower for 94.7. It might still operate as a back-up. They're working with Tom Ray, the longtime engineer at WOR. I think the issue is the directional array required for the 50,000 watts. Anywhere they go, it will be an issue. I think the property in West Orange is too small to build a full 4-tower array.
There's no real need to spend lots of money for an AM signal. Like a lot of AMs, the emphasis is on streaming.
What some fail to understand is that using an existing array is not always possible.
Let's see if I can simplify:
A directional system is based on placing two or more towers with spacing and layout that cause the signal at the specific frequency to radiate more or less in different directions.
Every frequency on AM has a different wavelength. So tower spacing that "works" at one frequency will create an entirely different pattern at another.
Using electronic components (coils and condensers) one can control the way the signal is split and assigned to each tower as well as the "phase" of the feed to each tower. With control of phase (which is, in a sense, the "timing of the circuit") each tower can enhance the signal in a particular dimension or null and reduce it.
If an existing array can not create the desired (and different) radiation pattern for a second frequency, that array can not be used.
Even tuning two non-directional stations into a single tower requires a network that, separately, tunes the station's transmitter to the tower while rejecting the signal from the other station.
Right at the top of this page David Gleason adds more stations in Ecuador is a picture of a tuning unit that allowed 570 AM and 805 AM to use a single tower in 1966. That is a much younger me standing by the unit.
Let's see if I can simplify:
A directional system is based on placing two or more towers with spacing and layout that cause the signal at the specific frequency to radiate more or less in different directions.
Every frequency on AM has a different wavelength. So tower spacing that "works" at one frequency will create an entirely different pattern at another.
Using electronic components (coils and condensers) one can control the way the signal is split and assigned to each tower as well as the "phase" of the feed to each tower. With control of phase (which is, in a sense, the "timing of the circuit") each tower can enhance the signal in a particular dimension or null and reduce it.
If an existing array can not create the desired (and different) radiation pattern for a second frequency, that array can not be used.
Even tuning two non-directional stations into a single tower requires a network that, separately, tunes the station's transmitter to the tower while rejecting the signal from the other station.
Right at the top of this page David Gleason adds more stations in Ecuador is a picture of a tuning unit that allowed 570 AM and 805 AM to use a single tower in 1966. That is a much younger me standing by the unit.
I sort of think this guy is right.
Some of the extenuating circumstances are unavoidable problems. Fine.
This specific "circumstance" was 100% created by Family Radio. I don't blame them for taking the deal for the land, but that should not serve as an excuse for a seemingly endless string of STAs. Either come up with a plan to return to licensed specifications, or modify/turn in the license accordingly. It's been years!
I guarentee with the engineer they have on this project, they have been trying.. hes a pretty top notch guy. I.. you, and everyone else has no idea whats going on behind the scenes
I think they had four towers in Maspeth. Those were heritage towers from a very long time ago. There is a post in this thread (#10) where the poster suggested WFME might return with 50K sharing tower space in the Meadowlands. That post was over a year ago. Anything that happens in the Meadowlands would have to be approved by the EPA as well as the FCC. Because that site is about 20 miles west from Maspeth, and they have to protect a station out west, it might become a problem to return to the full 50K.
A little harsh reality here:
The AM infrastructure in the US is, for the most part, ancient and on its last legs. The vast majority of AM DAs still standing are 60 or more years old and are probably decades behind in maintenance and reconstruction - because the AM band itself is in a death spiral that makes it economically unfeasible to do much of anything to improve or rebuild existing facilities as they fail.
The FCC knows this, which is why that petition from whatsisname in Chicago will go nowhere. Because again, here's the harsh reality: if WFME were to be relicensed at less than class A status, there's no other station anywhere in the country on 1560 that would spend a dime to build its own improved facility to take advantage of any opening that might result for new night service. The other 1560s anywhere in the midwest and east are largely one-lung daytimers and if they're making any money at all, it's off an FM translator, not any hypothetical AM nighttime signal.
The WFME STA will continue to be extended. Family Stations actually has been working on finding a new home for the signal if it can do so at minimal cost. I can't go into details, but there have been several attempts made already and there are more still in the pipeline. So long as Family can show the FCC it's continuing to make even the most modest attempt to find a licenseable facility, there's nothing that would cause the STA to be revoked.
(And as a general matter, I do not care for busybodies who try to inject themselves into FCC proceedings that don't directly affect them. Does this guy have the right to file informal objections against anything and everything that gets filed? Sure he does - but it mostly ends up wasting the FCC's time and costing stations money on lawyers to fend him off. Even if you think you have a good point to make, it's better to do so as a rulemaking proposal than as an informal objection that's inevitably going to be dismissed. I've always believed it's best to pick my battles carefully and not go out of my way to insert myself into proceedings where I have no stake in the outcome.)
The AM infrastructure in the US is, for the most part, ancient and on its last legs. The vast majority of AM DAs still standing are 60 or more years old and are probably decades behind in maintenance and reconstruction - because the AM band itself is in a death spiral that makes it economically unfeasible to do much of anything to improve or rebuild existing facilities as they fail.
The FCC knows this, which is why that petition from whatsisname in Chicago will go nowhere. Because again, here's the harsh reality: if WFME were to be relicensed at less than class A status, there's no other station anywhere in the country on 1560 that would spend a dime to build its own improved facility to take advantage of any opening that might result for new night service. The other 1560s anywhere in the midwest and east are largely one-lung daytimers and if they're making any money at all, it's off an FM translator, not any hypothetical AM nighttime signal.
The WFME STA will continue to be extended. Family Stations actually has been working on finding a new home for the signal if it can do so at minimal cost. I can't go into details, but there have been several attempts made already and there are more still in the pipeline. So long as Family can show the FCC it's continuing to make even the most modest attempt to find a licenseable facility, there's nothing that would cause the STA to be revoked.
(And as a general matter, I do not care for busybodies who try to inject themselves into FCC proceedings that don't directly affect them. Does this guy have the right to file informal objections against anything and everything that gets filed? Sure he does - but it mostly ends up wasting the FCC's time and costing stations money on lawyers to fend him off. Even if you think you have a good point to make, it's better to do so as a rulemaking proposal than as an informal objection that's inevitably going to be dismissed. I've always believed it's best to pick my battles carefully and not go out of my way to insert myself into proceedings where I have no stake in the outcome.)
In that case he's right, though. If WFME has no intention on ever returning to a 50kw Class A signal, then why shouldn't those other stations on 1560 have the opportunity to upgrade their nighttime signals and better serve their own communities?
Will Family Radio's response become part of the public record that anyone can read? It would be interesting to see what they say they have attempted so far, and what their plans are.
It's possible that he's a DXer and feels that it does directly affect him in that sense. Or perhaps there is a 1560 in his market with poor nighttime coverage and he'd like to see it improve. The reason doesn't really matter, the airwaves belong to the public, not corporations, so honestly the process seems fair.
Also, I did a search on his name and it seems he filed at least one other informal objection against another broadcaster for breaking FCC rules which resulted in disciplinary action against that broadcaster. So at least that one had merit and was not a waste of the FCC's time. The public absolutely has the right to do this.
Translator Faces $9,000 Penalty and Consent Decree After Objections - Radio World
An Illinois translator station looking to renew its license now faces a $9,000 civil penalty and a consent decree after questions were raised about the licensee’s candor.
www.radioworld.com
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