Older Audiences & Advertiser Appeal (For All Markets)

[Steve Green NEPA]

Re the original subject title:
Some folks here in the Northeast US will remember stations such as WNAR 1110 Norristown PA .... WNLK 1350 Norwalk CT ..... WRIV Riverhead Long Island ..... WHTG 1410 Eatontown (NJ shore) .... WBRE 1340 Wilkes-Barre .....
..... and even some of the 'newer' ones -- the shoehorn AMers like WKER Pompton Lakes NJ, WGCH 1490 Greenwich CT, WPRJ 1310 Parsippany NJ, WNRK 1260 in Delaware.
They each had, and served, their local COL niche -- their mom & pop clientele, their adults. There was even some token national ad prestige and imagery from spots on respected network newscasts.
Point is, LPFM stations originally were instituted to be, essentially, the same service, for the same older audiences of the time.
The suspicion here is that Big Radio all of a sudden didn't enjoy one bit the possibility of potential nickels and dimes headed elsewhere from the pockets of a demo they basically didn't want, anyway. Imagine you acquired some used second-hand flea market, decided it was ballast on your overall portfolio, and had it up for sale -- but wait! -- some think it possibly houses some legitimate antiques that were worth more than you thought.
That can't be the best analogy, of course. But with all the resistance to those original LPFM filings, most glaringly from the NAB (the aging, gingivitis pit bull of big radio) and from NPR ('Hey! Listener support is OUR monopoly territory!') the horror of competition, however minor the $ portended to be, was obvious. Right off the vat, newer regulations, restrictions and purely craven obstacles got mandated for such new stations to exist.
In one fashion or another, the mom & pop-type of community service radio that once existed for decades in its own local, workmanlike way was forbidden from returning or even getting a foothold. The original LPFM vision -- largely suggesting and even anticipating the response, involvement and appeal from an older audience -- got buried by interests who didn't want such demos in the first place.
How long would a normally licensed, commercialized, sensibly regulated, audio version of a corner deli have existed in communities outside the shadows of the skyscraper boardrooms? We'll never know. The two-tiered system of standards for club membership credentials that got unmasked and revealed were at the least a sign ; even perhaps a self-prophecising proof that the 'undesirable' older demos don't count because, well, they don't exist.

 

[Steve Green NEPA]

Re the original subject title:
Some folks here in the Northeast US will remember stations such as WNAR 1110 Norristown PA .... WNLK 1350 Norwalk CT ..... WRIV Riverhead Long Island ..... WHTG 1410 Eatontown (NJ shore) .... WBRE 1340 Wilkes-Barre .....
..... and even some of the 'newer' ones -- the shoehorn AMers like WKER Pompton Lakes NJ, WGCH 1490 Greenwich CT, WPRJ 1310 Parsippany NJ, WNRK 1260 in Delaware.
They each had, and served, their local COL niche -- their mom & pop clientele, mostly their adults. There was even some token national ad prestige and imagery from spots on respected network newscasts.
Point is, LPFM stations originally were instituted to be, essentially, the same service, for the same older audiences of the time.
The suspicion here is that Big Radio all of a sudden didn't enjoy one bit the possibility of potential nickels and dimes headed elsewhere from the pockets of a demo they basically didn't want, anyway. Imagine you acquired some used second-hand flea market, decided it was ballast on your overall portfolio, and had it up for sale -- but wait! -- some think it possibly houses some legitimate antiques that were worth more than you thought.
That can't be the best analogy, of course. But with all the resistance to those original LPFM filings, most glaringly from the NAB (the aging, gingivitis pit bull of big radio) and from NPR ('Hey! Listener support is OUR monopoly territory!') the horror of competition, however minor the $ portended to be, was obvious. Right off the vat, newer regulations, restrictions and purely craven obstacles got mandated for such new stations to exist.
In one fashion or another, the mom & pop-type of community service radio that once existed for decades in its own local, workmanlike way was forbidden from returning or even getting a foothold. The original LPFM vision -- largely suggesting and even anticipating the response, involvement and appeal from an older audience -- got buried by interests who didn't want such demos in the first place.
How long would a normally licensed, commercialized, sensibly regulated, audio version of a corner deli have existed in communities outside the shadows of the skyscraper boardrooms? We'll never know. The two-tiered system of standards for club membership credentials that got unmasked and revealed were at the least a sign ; even perhaps a self-prophecising proof that the 'undesirable' older demos don't count because, well, they don't exist.

 

[davideduardo]

In one fashion or another, the mom & pop-type of community service radio that once existed for decades in its own local, workmanlike way was forbidden from returning or even getting a foothold. The original LPFM vision -- largely suggesting and even anticipating the response, involvement and appeal from an older audience -- got buried by interests who didn't want such demos in the first place.
How long would a normally licensed, commercialized, sensibly regulated, audio version of a corner deli have existed in communities outside the shadows of the skyscraper boardrooms? We'll never know. The two-tiered system of standards for club membership credentials that got unmasked and revealed were at the least a sign ; even perhaps a self-prophecising proof that the 'undesirable' older demos don't count because, well, they don't exist.

You are blaming the wrong people. Start with the big box stores, and then move on to Amazon and the online vendors.

Local smaller market radio thrived on local direct business. They did not get much in the way of agency buys, but the local jeweler and appliance store and auto dealer bought big campaigns and the station rate card had "annual rates" to reward them.

The big chain retailers killed many of the local smaller businesses or put them in such a precarious financial state that they subsisted and no longer advertised. New shopping centers in the 70's and 80's filled up with national chains, from bed & bath merchandise to jewelry stores. Local "Main Street" merchants failed, and downtown filled with vacant storefronts.

Then Amazon & Friends hit the big box stores and malls with wider assortments and better prices. The few chain stores that did buy local radio quit doing that and the little local stores became even less likely to advertise on radio.

Radio responded in the only way it could. In 1995, 50% of all stations were not profitable. Only by combining stations in clusters could many of them survive.

 

[Steve Green NEPA]

Points noted, David.
And I actually remember past posts of yours which mentioned the percentage of stations that were not profitable. (Matter of fact, I recall at least one discussion that the percentage of non-successes was notably higher than 50%.)

Disclosure: I had run into similar posting problems to here before -- that 'try again later' or 'server is busted' stuff -- so didn't get to edit any final submission rant as usual, hence; I was surprised to see not only that my clamor actually went through but drew a response.
So anyway, yup ; agreed. My assessment / blame post was harsh, and was laid in the cone of just a few degrees on that overall 360-degree paperwork vista. My point was that those very initial asterisks placed on applicants for such stations were altogether too swift and sudden to've come from nowhere but the reaction of a form of worrisome self-preservation. Emerging internet shopping could not have cared less about wee peanut-whistle radio stations.
Bi-partisan support for such small radio voices from (R) McCain, (D) Obama and (R) Feingold had to've weighed somewhat on FCC Chairman Kennard's mind when he stamped 'OK' on the LPFM venture. And Kennard must've been expecting the affront from Big Radio ; he ruled 'non-commercial' almost as if he'd predicted it. And NPR's sole gripe about hearing service frequency problems got laughed out of court almost as soon as they were introduced.

Odd and funny in a way. The mission statement submitted from the group of applicants up this way -- with its decidedly 'adult', AARP/retirement/medical emphasis, and which got it's construction permit in just three days -- was right in exact virtual stride with the sample that Kennard had held out for approval. Thing is -- God's truth, David -- despite all the piecemeal eMails, phone calls, discussion and wisdom behind the group's LPFM filing, not one of the applicants were even about to SEE, READ or KNOW, until weeks later, how identical they were to Kennard's wording and intent on the matter.

Hopefully, internet editing goblins aside, best to you in the New Year!

 

[Mike Sheridan]

You're confusing business as exclusion or 'marginalization'. From it's beginnings, radio has always been about trying to target an audience that either advertisers want to reach, or for non-profit, donor's want to give money to. There are literally hundreds of examples of media that target boomers where they live: 'Diginets' like MeTV, 'conservative' talk radio, magazines, Facebook groups, and local TV news, just to name a few.

Okay but no matter how old I happened to be I would not want to hear anyone disrespected like that. I was taught to respect my elders, I know this is unfortunately an old fashioned concept.

The first station I jocked at was an established MOR leaning A/C station and I loved it! Why? Because we were playing music not heard anywhere else. I was brought in to break the overnight simulcast with our Beautiful Music FM sister station. Let me tell you not everyone was happy about it. One lady who was very irate totally surprised me. I explained we were trying to do something different. If she wanted to hear Beautiful Music, I invited her to tune to our FM station. She said since I had been nice enough to explain it to her, she'd give me a try. I had completely turned her around just by being nice to her!

Imagine for a minute if I had been rude and blown her off. What if her son or daughter had heard about it. Not a smart thing to do.

Even Miami's Top 40 Y-100 had little old ladies (who really sounded old) winning contests and they not only put them on the air but also used their voices in contest promos) at Y-100 no one was excluded or disrespected. Everyone was in on the fun!

 

[davideduardo]

Even Miami's Top 40 Y-100 had little old ladies (who really sounded old) winning contests and they not only put them on the air but also used their voices in contest promos) at Y-100 no one was excluded or disrespected. Everyone was in on the fun!

Having been in the building with Y-100 for quite a few years and still having friendships with people ranging from sales to engineering to programming, I can say that the station was wonderfully diverse in all aspects. That diversity at Y-100 and Metroplex meant that all of us worked together and our variety of backgrounds made for marvelous ideas and a loot of fun as well.

Bill Tanner, David Ross and Doug Holland have recently passed, but a lot of the crew from the 1980-1985 period when I was there is around and I love keeping up with them on social media.

 

[Mike Sheridan]

Doug Holland was a good friend of mine and a great engineer! I met him when we both worked at WAXY-FM back in 1973. He was a lot of fun to be around. We both moved to WFTL/WGLO in 1974. Great memories!

 

[davideduardo]

Doug Holland was a good friend of mine and a great engineer! I met him when we both worked at WAXY-FM back in 1973. He was a lot of fun to be around. We both moved to WFTL/WGLO in 1974. Great memories!

I worked with him at WHTT/WHYI and then again at KTNQ/KLVE.

 

[Mike Sheridan]

Not to beat a dead horse but I was very fortunate to work all nights at WFTL 14 Fort Lauderdale. In addition to having an excellent staff WFTL's focus was adults 35+. On the all night show in the '70's the TV stations signed off at 1:00am, there were no VCR's, DVD's or internet, just radio.

The listeners appreciated and paid attention. If I accidently gave out the wrong time or made some other mistake I got roasted!! I took it in stride, at least they were paying attention. At that time of day let's face it there are few distractions as long as I kept them awake, I tried my best. There were enough 3rd shift workers and insomniacs listening fortunately. WFTL was the best experience in my 20+ years on the air.

 

[The Beat]

Always embrace the elderly, they are the ones who value FM radio the most.... but.... pretend like its the younger people who like your station the most when chatting with agencies. They don't like old people.

 

[davideduardo]

Always embrace the elderly, they are the ones who value FM radio the most.... but.... pretend like its the younger people who like your station the most when chatting with agencies. They don't like old people.

Oversimplification.

The clients of ad agencies specify age and other demographic targets. Agencies buy time on stations that deliver that segment.

In radio, nearly all local station agency buys target all or some part of 18 to 54. If a station does not deliver in the target area and at a competitive CPP or CPM (Cost per Point or Cost per Thousand) or other metric, they don't get bought.

"Older" is 35-54. "Younger" is 18-34.

A lot of buys now are not determined by humans... a computer looks at the ratings, station rates and a few other factors and decides which stations to make buys on.

 

[Plate Blocker]

I'm 14 pages late to this discussion, but.....

I'm in my late 60s....a late baby-boomer.....yes, I get a lot of insults from the late 30s and early 40s children of friends about how old I am and how I know nothing technical, but both me and most of my acquaintances are very much up to date with current consumer offerings, and for the most part MUCH more technical than a lot of those calling us names. I have the latest smart phone, and purchase high tech equipment, cars, and other consumer items all the time.

In the marketing world I think there may be a little 'holdover' assumptions based upon my parents generation, who were indeed technical holdouts and nay-sayers that might be painting the current people in my age group inappropriately. It really doesn't matter; I'm not particularly influenced by advertising, and I become exposed to most of the higher-end items I purchase via online exposure and research, not radio or TV. I find a lot of the spots I hear and see there pointed at lesser thoughtful group, to put it politely.

Bottom line, market to me or not; it doesn't matter a lot, but I think the 60's person of 2024 is very different than the 60's person of 2002, which seems to be the assumptive marketing target today as regards older people.

 

[CTListener]

I'm not particularly influenced by advertising, and I become exposed to most of the higher-end items I purchase via online exposure and research, not radio or TV. I find a lot of the spots I hear and see there pointed at lesser thoughtful group, to put it politely.

Discriminating or high-end buyers are not what advertisers on mainstream radio and TV are targeting. Advertising there is a lowest-common-denominator business, trying to sell to the easily persuaded, less discriminating consumer. You fish where the fish are biting.

 

[Plate Blocker]

Agreed, but to my point, I think that perhaps the marketeer's perception of an 'older' listener may be that of a 60-ish listener in 2000 and perhaps not so accurate today. I see their point in the 70-80 year old group clearly.

But, as I've said so many times before, in the larger sense I don't think it much matters. The preference away from broadcast toward streaming is a much bigger issue, and renders at what upper age cutting off targeted advertising to the importance of Nero fiddling while Rome burns. I have a 33 year old niece with 3 children under 3. There is no radio in the house. She knows my work history well and we've discussed it extensively....when she was single and brought her girlfriends to our resort area, I would grill them extensively about listening habits....radio is purely and simply not relevant to she and her friends. Either there is one hell of a sampling anomaly going on in my research, or there is a trend. YMMV.

 

[davideduardo]

Discriminating or high-end buyers are not what advertisers on mainstream radio and TV are targeting. Advertising there is a lowest-common-denominator business, trying to sell to the easily persuaded, less discriminating consumer. You fish where the fish are biting.

Yep. And there are further issues....

First, the older a person gets, the more "preferred brands" they have, making it harder to change and requiring more ads more often to "make a sale".

Second, older people (meaning over 55 to advertisers) are generally empty-nesters and buy less "stuff".

And the majority of those older people who are retired have more limited incomes and are more frugal "too make the money last". In my family, I have retirement income that is about 30% of my last years of work income, so things changed at our house for sure!

There is an exception as there are of products and services that are elderly-appropriate. Not just prescription drugs, special canes, adult diapers and stair lifts... also dietary supplements, OTC remedies, cruises, comfort-clothing and so on. But those products tend to use national media outlets that include video as most of those products need visuals to show lifestyle enhancements.

Radio can get very little of the budgets for senior-targeted campaigns because there are no full national every-market radio networks targeting seniors specifically and buying locally is way to complex for most accounts.

 

[gr8oldies]

Discriminating or high-end buyers are not what advertisers on mainstream radio and TV are targeting. Advertising there is a lowest-common-denominator business, trying to sell to the easily persuaded, less discriminating consumer. You fish where the fish are biting.

The argument has been made about seniors buying technology and luxury cars, but how many ads does it take to close one transaction? Phones every couple of years, a car every 7?

 

[Mike Sheridan]

It made me laugh when I heard our local News/Talk station playing an E-D commercial. I guess they know their audience. They might as well sell ads for cemetery plots.

 

[davideduardo]

The argument has been made about seniors buying technology and luxury cars, but how many ads does it take to close one transaction? Phones every couple of years, a car every 7?

There are too many other variables... the creative and the content in an ad, the audience perception of the brand or advertiser, the timing of the message delivery and so on. Radio is a delivery system... the key to an ad "working" involves the product and the way it is promoted, not the medium.

 

[boombox4]

It made me laugh when I heard our local News/Talk station playing an E-D commercial. I guess they know their audience. They might as well sell ads for cemetery plots.

I hear those -- and the natural testosterone boosting supplements -- on Sports talkers, too. I also heard some spots that one would think would be on conservative, overnight talk shows on the local non-political, FM news-talker recently. as well as other ads on that station (and its conservative talk sister station) that obviously target older demos (alternative therapies for joint issues).

 

[Mike Sheridan]

The argument has been made about seniors buying technology and luxury cars, but how many ads does it take to close one transaction? Phones every couple of years, a car every 7?

A car every 7? Depends more on where you live. If you're up north in the rust belt, cars rust out before they wear out. I believe the days of people buying a car every 2-3 years is a thing of the past. Most working class folks don't buy a car until they need to.

I like the phone I have now and will soon spring for a new battery for it. I used to buy a new phone when the one in my phone got weak but the newer phones don't offer anything I need or want. Still lots of my fellow geezers are buying new Samsung and Motorola foldables and Pixel Pros.