IMO, the only seriously bitter poster here is "tbolt909." There are some snarky responses from time to time, particularly to out-of-market posters who don't really have a feel for what's going on here or the history of broadcasting in a market that's gone from Top 25 to #59 in their lifetimes. The broadcast community here is generally quite collegial, but we've seen a real decline in local participation on this board over time. Part of that is due to the frustration of having "experts" with little or no background in the market telling us rubes how we should be thankful for the blessings that Big Corporate bestows on us.
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February '24 Rolling Average
- Thread starter SirRoxalot
- Start date
Right. Buffalo is the mecca of all Radio knowledge. Maybe you haven't noticed, but most of the stations in Buffalo have been Corporate owned for well over 30 years. That's not a new development. Many of the people who have never worked outside of Buffalo must think time stopped in 1990...
A relevant perspective.
Danny, Roberts, Sandy, Santella, Lacy, O'Connell, Norton and many others are retired, a few occasionally appearing on commercials.
Clint, Masters, Roddy, Armstrong, Berns, Shane and other personalities of yore have signed off, permanently.
"Personality radio," such as it once was defined, is not about long, drawn out shtick. Listeners ... aside from those who listen to sports or news talk ... have limits. The KB of the mid and late 60s halcyon days would get killed today ... although not as "killed" as KB's present laughable and embarrassing zero point one. Abysmal. What's the over-under? You can't get much "under" than a zero point 1.
Two minute bits that may or may not be funny, relevant or entertaining are tune-outs ... even in morning drive, which in the past provided greater latitude for such. Attention spans are shorter, entertainment and information options are greater. RDS gives us the artist and title; our dashboard gives us the time and temp; Youtube, Instagram, Tik-Tok and Facebook gives us pictures, humor ... and snark. "Alexa play" is, to younger demos, the new audio provider ... instant access, instant gratification.
The air talent's act needs to be informative, entertaining and well-packaged, laser-focued on subject matter or localism. And, oh ... sound like it's real, enjoyable and inviting. Piece of cake, eh. Hardly. Being a DJ isn't what it once was. The days of bells, gongs and whistles, wild-tracks and resident morning show laughing sidekicks are long in the rear view mirror. Being an air talent is more demanding than ever ... especially when the air talent is voice-tracking five stations in five different markets. It can be exhausting. Burnout much? This issue is real and has been discussed and debated by national and local media mavens more knowing than I. Voice-tracking is not going away ... ever ... radio, whether OTA or streamed, is in a tight, and getting tighter, corner.
Fred Jacobs recently blogged about the value of air personalities "sounding like they're having a good time" ... genuinely having fun ... it's a key issue whether the DJ is live or voice-tracked. Voice trackers need to be good actors and sound "in the moment." It can be done, and the better voice-trackers do it well ... however, most do not. It's rote to them: Many voice trackers sound as if they're dictating stock quotes or a shopping list. The good ones go far beyond that. Voice tracking is here to stay, so the imperative is to make it sound as real ... and as immediate ... and entertaining ... fun ... as possible. It's not an easy gig.
All this reality noted, the days of "four and out the door" are over. They have been re-defined: four and out the door means four hours of voice tracking five four hour air shifts ... in different markets. All for $18 an hour.
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A very astute observation, Rusty. I’d like use Joey Reynolds as an example. He’s remembered as a legendary nighttime jock on KB in the mid ‘60s. I’m not here to disparage Joey. He’s a true talent who gained national fame as one of the industry’s first “shock jocks.” But I recall checking out an aircheck of Joey about a year ago — maybe from ‘62 or ‘63. And I didn’t think it was very good. The bit went on too long. It wasn’t really funny. Annoying sound effects. Yet, as you point out, those were the halcyon days of Buffalo radio.
Jack Armstrong was a way better nighttime jock. High energy. He didn’t waste time. Kept his show and the music moving.
Even Danny Neaverth of the early ‘60s was a shadow of what he became. Again, I recently heard an aircheck of Danny from the early ‘60s. Not really funny. Sounded disorganized. But by the time he started his morning show on KB in 1970, Danny was nailing it. He never failed to make me laugh most mornings. His bits with Jim McLaughlin were priceless. Sandy Beach’s DJ patter was biting. Don Berns was super creative. The KB days of the early ‘70s were clearly superior to a decade earlier.
All that said, I agree KB of that era wouldn’t resonate today. Radio has evolved into what we’re hearing — soul-less voice tracks of announcers with a computerized playlist stuffed between five to six minute stopsets. I don’t see how that is sustainable longterm, not with so many ad-free alternatives available to music listeners. Sure, there are a few remaining talented music personalities on Buffalo radio. But they’ve all been around a while — Shredd and Ragan (who just celebrated 30 years as a team), Janet Snyder, Clay Moden and Joe Chille. There really is no new talent with a “wow” factor, is there?
Huh? Really? Which stations do you listen to?
WYRK's Clay & Co. has won the CMA Award for Broadcast Personality of the Year. I suggest Clay is a real personality.
But there are several others who I'd put in that category. You might not listen because you don't like the music. But they are there.
Name all the great engaging music personalities on streaming radio. On Spotify, Pandora, Apple Music. The ones people talk about.
Radio changed. It changed a long time ago. An entire generation has grown up in this new era of radio. They have no knowledge or recollection of KB or Jack Armstrong. They know a world where the artists who make the music are accessible. That didn't exist 50 years ago. They don't need intermediaries. They don't need translators. They can go to the artists directly. That inherently changes the role of the presenter.
I agree with that. People who just want the music can get it from streaming services. That's why they're there. Those services pay the record labels for the right to do that. It's completely changed the nature of the music business, from one that sold hard goods to one that derives its revenue from royalties. Radio stations aren't in that business. Radio plays music to attract an audience to sell to advertisers.
You bring up advertising and the amount of it. I suggest that all of what you hear on commercial radio with regards to on-air presentation has to do with advertising. All of the research is geared around delivering an audience of a certain demographic to the advertisers. They're the ones paying for the time, so they're the clients. Not the listeners.
If you want to hear PERSONALITIES, then you probably don't want that personality interrupted by music. Howard Stern realized that 30 years ago. Imus realized that over 30 years ago. Music not only interrupts, but it biases the listener. There was a situation in Seattle with DJ Ichabod Caine. He did mornings on the country station. People in Seattle loved Ichabod, but they hated country music. So what do you do in such a situation? The station cut back on the music. You hear that same thing done in Buffalo today.
In the 60s & 70s, you had fewer radio stations, and those stations had to be all things to all people. That's why it was possible to hear Frank Sinatra on the same station as The Beatles. There was also less competition from other media. Format radio as we know it now didn't really exist until the late 70s. At the same time, radio researchers discovered that music listeners didn't like chatty DJs. This still comes up in research today as the #1 complaint, over #2, which is too many commercials. The common theme is that people who want music don't want interruptions. People who want personality don't want it interrupted by music. It's been that way for over 30 years.
So getting back to your point, how does radio create something that is unique to attract listeners that doesn't hurt ratings? The answer is creating online content, such as podcasts, where the local personalities can be themselves, uninterrupted by music or commercials. That's what I see a lot of personalities doing. Its also become the farm system for future radio personalities.
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As a local sales rep once remarked, quite seriously, "The music is just there to fill the time between the real important stuff ... the commercials."
The same could be said about talk radio, substituting "personalities and phone calls" for "the music."
I think you are off by about 15 years. That should read "in the 50's and earlier 60's"
The mid-50's marked the transition from decades of crooners and bands to Rock 'n Roll. And that caused the formation of stations that appealed to younger people and stations that appealed to older folks... Top 40 and MOR. And we had "race stations" (yep, that is what they were called) and country stations, too.
By the end of the 50's, MOR stations started appearing in varieties, ranging from traditional sound to more modern ones who even dared play Neil Sedaka and Paul Anka.
The fact that Top 40 stations did play Sinatra or Paul Mauriat was simply related to that era being transitional from MOR and Big Band music to pop sounds.
As I just mentioned, by the early 50's we had the first Top 40 stations, with a very distinct format while the traditional old line stations still retained their CBS-NBC-ABC-Mutual base for a few more years. And we had Black stations, country stations, religious stations as the huge post-WW II boom in the number of stations settled in. And in 1950 we had over 1,000 new FM stations, mostly doing classical, jazz and instrumental formatsd
Not in my research. What they don't like is DJs who talk too much and don't say anything interesting. They love entertaining talents, even more than the music.
The #1 reason for tune-out, of course is....
... no, not commercials. It is "a song I hate". That is usually the product of the still-alive concept that playing more different songs beats fewer strong songs.
And the middle ground is the peak of that "graph" of music <---> talk. That is the right playlist with entertaining hosts.
The "Computerized Playlist" is based on the misconception that a computer picks the music. In fact, what Selector and Music Master do is the same as what a PD who had 12 spare hours a day would do.
You don't want the same artist too close to another song by them? You don't want the same song in the same hour for 3 days? You don't want two very soft songs in a row?
Those are your rules. You just code each song with the characteristics you feel it has on anything from tempo, gender and music style to things you make up like "fit" and "intensity". Then you tell the software what to do with your rules, and each time it is through, you "humanize" what the computer could not do.
No. Owned by the Langston family, one of the longest-running Black station owners in the country.
That's all well & good until it dries up. Many stations are facing that reality now. WBUF is a dumpster fire. It was mentioned above that the music is researched to get an audience that advertisers want. How's that working out on WBUF and WLKK? Recycling stagnant Programming ideas isn't a viable solution going forward...
Which is why Cumulus, even coming out of bankruptcy, continues to pay Shredd & Ragan whatever they want. If they could find a few more like them, they'd gladly pay them. They picked the right time to transition them to classic rock. Great move that has paid off.
While on that subject, I just saw a poll of country listeners that was presented at the Country Radio Seminar. It confirms what you say about talent that talks but doesn't say anything. The panel was asked about the value of local talent, and the thing that meant the least to the respondents was where the talent is. They don't care if it's local or national, as long as it's entertaining.
But this poll also points out that opinions about talent are dependent on format. Country radio is built on live talent. WYRK is a great example. Alternative radio HATES live talent. Given a choice between a hosted morning show and unhosted music, they prefer the unhosted music. KITS in San Francisco and KVIL in Dallas are just two examples that prove my point.
I think there's a real push to find "entertaining talent." The problem is what constitutes "entertaining." If they can't sing, then they have to be clever with words. There was a guy in Buffalo who thought it was entertaining to compare women's complexion with toast. Let's pause for a moment. Can you believe that actually happened? Whenever anyone complains about emotionless VT, I bring up that example.
All that name means is that the station licensee is named after the county the station is in. I could buy a station in Buffalo and incorporate as "Erie County Broadcasting, Inc." and be a totally commercial station unrelated to the county government.
Good observations. The issue of finding talent is what many European and Latin American broadcasters have resolved by doing "national stations" with one format on many transmitters.
The TV networks figured this out in the 1950's with Steve Allen and then Johnny Carson being the television equivalents of "morning men". Radio, enhanced by FCC "localism" policies, stuck with the same wheel being reinvented hundreds of times all across the USA.
I've programmed "national" stations in several countries and consulted several more. In Argentina, our classic rock station was rebroadcast in over 60 cities from Patagonia to the Bolivian border and was hugely successful. But we only trained one team of air talents... and I could focus on airchecking each one, even weekenders and the overnight guy... every week.
The only real issue with great talent is they want great talent money. They know they're great, and like great athletes, they demand top dollar. You don't get top quality talent but sticking them in the overnight shift to learn their trade. Those days are over. If they don't know what they're doing, they shouldn't be learning on the air. There are lots of other sandboxes in which to play and learn your craft.
The top talent wants top money, so they hire agents to negotiate for them. Once again, just like in pro sports. These agents not only get them the radio deal, but a book deal, various product endorsements, and maybe even some TV gigs. This is what's involved in getting entertaining talent. The public has grown up with media, so they know the difference between professionals and amateurs. If you're a top talent with an agent, you're not going to be satisfied with market #59. You're going to want syndication. That's what Steve Harvey got. That's what Bobby Bones got. So that's the reality when you talk about entertaining talent. This isn't the 1960s when a 50K radio station was a big enticement. That's not enough to get the real talent. With advertising for local radio (commercial or non-commercial) dropping, the ONLY way to ensure quality talent is to do what they did in Europe.
Here are links to some of the presentations about personalities at this year's CRS.
www.insideradio.com
www.insideradio.com
Personalities Power Radio, Says CRS Research Presentation.
“In a world of on-demand … you and what you do are very much still in demand,” Smith Geiger Group’s Andrew Finlayson told CRS attendees on Thursday. Smith Geiger’s national
A&O&B’s Kenny Jay On The Myths Country P1s Debunk.
Albright & O’Malley & Brenner’s RoadMap has tracked the habits and trends of country radio P1s for 22 years, helping the industry better understand how to super-serve its best customers.
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I doubt Cumulus, who is ready for bankruptcy 2, is paying S and R “ whatever they want”
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