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Saving AM Radio

Hyrum said:
Aren't we getting away from the general topic.? There are a million reasons and causes of the electrical noise that has made AM radio unlistenable. No one is getting rid of their solar panels, microwave ovens, and aging insulators. The noise will remain. So AM stations won't. The lower powered stations are already hash 10 miles from the transmitter. The big guns are still there, but with half the range of 30 years ago. If they don't all switch to a digital format and all radios can't receive the signals, they will continue the progression of fading away. No legislation is or should be made to require HD radios. Even if it were so, how many would invest in one? The answer is simply to have better programming than anyone else on a band that people tune too, FM, satellite, or internet. If the message is worth hearing, the delivery system shouldn't matter. AM should not be encouraged to stay and burn a lot of electricity in 2024. There are too many boring stations offering too little quality. The big guys already know this and that's why so many group owned AM stations are rebroadcasting signals from a co-owned FM or infomercials simply to keep modulating. (please don't start a column to inform me that infomercials are a source of revenue to justify keeping AM alive) Just like the buggy whip, AM's time has come. Or is it AM's time has gone? Let's put something that might even generate water cooler talk on the air, whatever that air might be and then people might listen. Maybe advertisers might want to be a part of that and the money could be added to the budget of the FM station carrying it.
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As I said before on this thread, it depends on where you live. in Cincinnati, 2 of the top 5 rated stations are AM.in other markets. AM doesn't show up at all in the ratings.
You can't just say no one listens to AM anymore, it depends on where you live.
 
BruceB said:
As I said before on this thread, it depends on where you live. in Cincinnati, 2 of the top 5 rated stations are AM.in other markets. AM doesn't show up at all in the ratings.
You can't just say no one listens to AM anymore, it depends on where you live.
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Very true. Realistically though in most places AM gets a tiny percentage of the overall listenership. The most wanted programs will eventually have to move elsewhere as the AM signals decay even more. They will. Urban sprawl eating up once prime AM transmitter sites, electric noise and all the stuff that will continue.
 
Hyrum said:
Very true. Realistically though in most places AM gets a tiny percentage of the overall listenership. The most wanted programs will eventually have to move elsewhere as the AM signals decay even more. They will. Urban sprawl eating up once prime AM transmitter sites, electric noise and all the stuff that will continue.
Click to expand...
I agree with you that the decline will be at different rates in different parts of the country and Cincinnati is a very conservative market.There is an old joke attributed to Mark Twain that if the world comes to an end he wanted to be in Cincinnati because everything happens there five years later.
 
BruceB said:
As I said before on this thread, it depends on where you live. in Cincinnati, 2 of the top 5 rated stations are AM.in other markets. AM doesn't show up at all in the ratings.
You can't just say no one listens to AM anymore, it depends on where you live.
Click to expand...

I think, given the side discussion on electrical interference, it might be worth digging into why that is the case in Cincinnati.

Are those two stations the proverbial "blowtorches" that can power through the interference (like my earlier examples of KFI and KNX here in L.A.)? If that is the case, the side discussion is very relevant. If a signal can be strong and listenable, you can put almost anything in the way of programming on it and get a decent audience. In fact, I would think that talk-based formats (including News) have the best chance of overcoming listener resistance to electrical noise. The static is not going to be as objectionable -- again, especially with a strong signal in the first place -- with that programming.

Similarly, religious programming can still work (especially the preachers) for the same reason, plus that audience is going to tolerate the background noise to listen ... although I suppose they might also be saying prayers for the noise to go away. An ethnic audience with no other radio programming in their native language would also be more inclined to accept the interference, although I readily admit that I have done zero research into streams, podcasts and the like aimed at those listeners.

But mainstream music programming is pretty much out of consideration on AM anymore, unless it's there in order to feed a FM translator (or, as I am led to believe, rebroadcasting the translator which is getting the direct program feed). Even formats that are non-saleable because of aging demos -- how many stations are still doing Adult Standards? -- are already doomed to extinction as the few listeners over 65 who might be more tolerant of interference and listen on AM literally die off, one by one.

So here is what I think: The "blowtorches" will be the last to go. They will be preceded by, in no particular order, by the non-viable talk-formatted stations (the ones that are 99.9% syndication and won't be missed), the religious music-based formats, the ethnic stations as their audiences find streams and podcasts, and those hyper-local stations with just enough signal to cover their communities and have a loyal local following.

I believe that by decade's end most of the AM daytimers and the like with translators will be allowed to take the AM silent and license the FM as a separate class of service (Class A1?). The FCC is going to have to approve that, sooner or later.
 
K.M. Richards said:
I believe that by decade's end most of the AM daytimers and the like with translators will be allowed to take the AM silent and license the FM as a separate class of service (Class A1?). The FCC is going to have to approve that, sooner or later.
Click to expand...

The FCC doesn't "have'' to do anything. There is nothing in the law that requires that. What I foresee the FCC doing is continue to chop away at protections for FM adjacent frequencies, and expanding the power of translators. They did it with docket 80-90, and other subsequent decisions.
 
K.M. Richards said:
I think, given the side discussion on electrical interference, it might be worth digging into why that is the case in Cincinnati.

Are those two stations the proverbial "blowtorches" that can power through the interference (like my earlier examples of KFI and KNX here in L.A.)? If that is the case, the side discussion is very relevant. If a signal can be strong and listenable, you can put almost anything in the way of programming on it and get a decent audience. In fact, I would think that talk-based formats (including News) have the best chance of overcoming listener resistance to electrical noise. The static is not going to be as objectionable -- again, especially with a strong signal in the first place -- with that programming.

Similarly, religious programming can still work (especially the preachers) for the same reason, plus that audience is going to tolerate the background noise to listen ... although I suppose they might also be saying prayers for the noise to go away. An ethnic audience with no other radio programming in their native language would also be more inclined to accept the interference, although I readily admit that I have done zero research into streams, podcasts and the like aimed at those listeners.

But mainstream music programming is pretty much out of consideration on AM anymore, unless it's there in order to feed a FM translator (or, as I am led to believe, rebroadcasting the translator which is getting the direct program feed). Even formats that are non-saleable because of aging demos -- how many stations are still doing Adult Standards? -- are already doomed to extinction as the few listeners over 65 who might be more tolerant of interference and listen on AM literally die off, one by one.

So here is what I think: The "blowtorches" will be the last to go. They will be preceded by, in no particular order, by the non-viable talk-formatted stations (the ones that are 99.9% syndication and won't be missed), the religious music-based formats, the ethnic stations as their audiences find streams and podcasts, and those hyper-local stations with just enough signal to cover their communities and have a loyal local following.

I believe that by decade's end most of the AM daytimers and the like with translators will be allowed to take the AM silent and license the FM as a separate class of service (Class A1?). The FCC is going to have to approve that, sooner or later.
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The two stations in the top five. One is WLW
700 kHz AM. One of the old 50kw former "all clear channel " stations, while no longer the only station on 700 kHz in north America, is still 50kw non directional. The other is WKRC
550 kHz. 5kw directional but that low frequency...? So, yes, I see your point.
 
TheBigA said:
The FCC doesn't "have'' to do anything. There is nothing in the law that requires that. What I foresee the FCC doing is continue to chop away at protections for FM adjacent frequencies, and expanding the power of translators. They did it with docket 80-90, and other subsequent decisions.
Click to expand...
You're probably correct and with more adjacent interference from more stations, it will cause deterioration of FM signals and make it more difficult to be successful on that band. I don't believe we need more stations, low power translators or full power stations. We need to hold the line on new anything and let the ones currently operating have a chance to make good programming and hopefully turn a profit.
 
Probably never. If we have so many radio stations rebroadcasting the same old stuff and few innovative ideas, I believe there are enough transmitters. I'd like to see NO new licenses issued and let new operators compete to bid on stations as they are put for sale or let them apply for the vacant license should the station go out of business and go silent.
 
Hyrum said:
Probably never. If we have so many radio stations rebroadcasting the same old stuff and few innovative ideas, I believe there are enough transmitters. I'd like to see NO new licenses issued and let new operators compete to bid on stations as they are put for sale or let them apply for the vacant license should the station go out of business and go silent.
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If they go out of business, they should stay dark, license deleted and not allowed to have anyone fill that frequency for 10 years

A station going dark is going dark for a reaosn, adding it back doesnt save am in any sense and drains the revenue when it comes back on... and it likely went dark because of poor revenue.

I worked for a 3 station cluster in NW PA, 2 FMs and 1AM with massive translator.... despite being the second oldest station in the region, it wouldve gone dark YEARS ago if it wasnt for the cluster propping it up... and its not for a lack of trying or lack of local effort on the part of the company
 
Hyrum said:
I'd like to see NO new licenses issued and let new operators compete to bid on stations as they are put for sale or let them apply for the vacant license should the station go out of business and go silent.
Click to expand...

Seems to me that's how things work. However, people aren't lining up to apply. Especially with the ones going dark.
 
Hyrum said:
Very true. Realistically though in most places AM gets a tiny percentage of the overall listenership. The most wanted programs will eventually have to move elsewhere as the AM signals decay even more. They will. Urban sprawl eating up once prime AM transmitter sites, electric noise and all the stuff that will continue.
Click to expand...
And there are well over 1000 AM stations that must stay on the air to sustain a translator on FM. The real business comes from the FM service, but the FCC requires the AM to be on the air for a translator to operate.

Until the FCC allows those translators to be a fully-classed (A2?) and protected service, those AMs will remain on the air.
 
SomeRadioGuy said:
If they go out of business, they should stay dark, license deleted and not allowed to have anyone fill that frequency for 10 years
Click to expand...
But some "good" stations go out of business due to bad owners and bad management.
SomeRadioGuy said:
A station going dark is going dark for a reaosn, adding it back doesnt save am in any sense and drains the revenue when it comes back on... and it likely went dark because of poor revenue.
Click to expand...
Again, it might be profitable with a new owner, and new format or some other change.
SomeRadioGuy said:
I worked for a 3 station cluster in NW PA, 2 FMs and 1AM with massive translator.... despite being the second oldest station in the region, it wouldve gone dark YEARS ago if it wasnt for the cluster propping it up... and its not for a lack of trying or lack of local effort on the part of the company
Click to expand...
And most of those AMs with a translator sell the FM signal both to listeners and advertisers.
 
DavidEduardo said:
But some "good" stations go out of business due to bad owners and bad management.

Again, it might be profitable with a new owner, and new format or some other change.

And most of those AMs with a translator sell the FM signal both to listeners and advertisers.
Click to expand...

Not all AM's need to be saved.. ive worked for another one (not in Pa, mentioned in earlier posts) that hasnt been profitable in... 2 decades under multiple owners and formats, it needs to just die for good but it keeps limping along by people who think they have some revolutionary idea, it never works.

Its also been silent at times the fcc never knew about.
 
DavidEduardo said:
And there are well over 1000 AM stations that must stay on the air to sustain a translator on FM. The real business comes from the FM service, but the FCC requires the AM to be on the air for a translator to operate.

Until the FCC allows those translators to be a fully-classed (A2?) and protected service, those AMs will remain on the air.
Click to expand...
Back to the original query - what if AM isn't capable of being saved?

Someone a lot smarter than I am has probably done some back-of-the-envelope calculations, but just what *is* the capacity of the FM broadcast band in the continental US, taking into account the separation requirements along both borders?

What percentage of AM's could go off-air and be replaced with an FM?
 
kwthom said:
Back to the original query - what if AM isn't capable of being saved?
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Saved from what? Like any business, if there isn't enough financial support you can't stay in business. Advertisers follow certain listeners they're trying to reach. If listeners aren't interested, neither are advertisers.
kwthom said:
Someone a lot smarter than I am has probably done some back-of-the-envelope calculations, but just what *is* the capacity of the FM broadcast band in the continental US, taking into account the separation requirements along both borders?

What percentage of AM's could go off-air and be replaced with an FM?
Click to expand...
Not many if at all. With the addition of LPFM's and translators for AM stations, the band is really getting jammed up.
 
SomeRadioGuy said:
If they go out of business, they should stay dark, license deleted and not allowed to have anyone fill that frequency for 10 years

A station going dark is going dark for a reaosn, adding it back doesnt save am in any sense and drains the revenue when it comes back on... and it likely went dark because of poor revenue.
Click to expand...

I'm inclined to agree with you, Paul. Of course, any AM that goes silent and relinquishes its license cannot be reapplied for under the current regulations anyway. And the one recent instance where AM licenses were revoked (involuntary silence) there were no takers at auction.

What you suggest makes sense if it were to apply to FMs that go silent and relinquish. And it would not take much in the way of policy review at the FCC, since any such vacant frequency would have to be included in a future auction to be "brought back to life" and there's nothing stopping the Commission from simply not having any more FM auctions for a decade or so.

There is most certainly going to be continued attrition on the AM band. And despite this thread going on for over 200 posts, there isn't any "magic solution". Either stations find a way to stay viable, or they don't. The real question, in my mind, is whether or not there are too many FMs -- full power stations and translators -- for us to avoid having this same conversation about them, years from now.
 


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