Los Angeles Ratings ... NOT the 6+ numbers

[K.M. Richards]

From Research Director:

RADIO RATINGS ROUNDUP, May 2024, Part I | Research Director, Inc.

Like crabgrass in your lawn, The Ratings Experts from RESEARCH DIRECTOR, INC. – along with the data diviners from XTRENDS – are back to take anot

researchdirectorinc.com

Ignoring the 6+ numbers ...

25-54: 1. KIIS 2. KOST 3. KBIG 4. KLVE 5. KCBS/KLAX (tie) 7. KRTH
18-34: 1. KIIS 2. KLVE/KCBS (tie) 4. KBIG 5. KRTH 6. KOST
18-49: 1. KIIS 2. KBIG 3. KLAX 4. KLVE 5. KOST 6. KRTH

There. Now you have a good basis for discussion. Enjoy!

 

[davideduardo]

Note that in 18-49 and 25-54, there are two Spanish language stations in the top 5.

 

[101.9 La Kalle]

Note that in 18-49 and 25-54, there are two Spanish language stations in the top 5.

And one's R/M, the other one is a Spanish A/C that managed to adapt to the times.

 

[davideduardo]

And one's R/M, the other one is a Spanish A/C that managed to adapt to the times.

And the R/M is 30+ focused with lots of gold, as is KLVE. Neither looks too strongly at 18-34.

 

[K.M. Richards]

Note that in 18-49 and 25-54, there are two Spanish language stations in the top 5.

And one's R/M, the other one is a Spanish A/C that managed to adapt to the times.

And the R/M is 30+ focused with lots of gold, as is KLVE. Neither looks too strongly at 18-34.

And meanwhile, the once dominant Regional Mexican station(s), the 94.3/105.5 "Que Buena" trimulcast is ... where? (Hand me my binoculars, I can't see them clearly from here.)

 

[henry]

Note that in 18-49 and 25-54, there are two Spanish language stations in the top 5.

I'd be concerned if there wasn't.

 

[101tm]

Wow, KROQ is actually edging out ahead of KYSR these days. Didn’t think I’d see that again.

 

[hotpatrick2004]

But it be interesting to see a deep dive into the Kroq vs Kysr numbers.

 

[K.M. Richards]

Wow, KROQ is actually edging out ahead of KYSR these days. Didn’t think I’d see that again.

You're talking 6+ numbers again, Patrick. As David says (and will likely continue to until it finally sinks in with everyone) those numbers are of little, if any use in determining a station's actual standing. Every station has a target demographic and what is important to them -- and which should be what's important to everyone here, since you all obviously care who's doing better than their competitors -- is not going to be the 6+ numbers.

That is why I quoted the demographic rankings which Research Director has legally posted on a public website (obviously they have a license with Nielsen to do so) ... so you can have an intelligent discussion. Using 6+ as a basis instead is contrary to that, to me. (Probably not to David either).

 

[hotpatrick2004]

You're talking 6+ numbers again, Patrick. As David says (and will likely continue to until it finally sinks in with everyone) those numbers are of little, if any use in determining a station's actual standing. Every station has a target demographic and what is important to them -- and which should be what's important to everyone here, since you all obviously care who's doing better than their competitors -- is not going to be the 6+ numbers.

That is why I quoted the demographic rankings which Research Director has legally posted on a public website (obviously they have a license with Nielsen to do so) ... so you can have an intelligent discussion. Using 6+ as a basis instead is contrary to that, to me. (Probably not to David either).

No no no I know those are six plus numbers I have known for years you cant tell the health of a station by those that's why I say a deep dive would be interesting. I never said that about Kysr 6+ numbers someone else did but K.M. I do appreciate your wealth of knowledge on radio. You David and Michael are great.

 

[CTListener]

No no no I know those are six plus numbers I have known for years you cant tell the health of a station by those that's why I say a deep dive would be interesting. I never said that about Kysr 6+ numbers someone else did but K.M. I do appreciate your wealth of knowledge on radio. You David and Michael are great.

Chances are good that any "deeper" dive than the Research Director rankings would land someone in deep trouble with Nielsen. "Research Director" gets to publish the demo-specific rankings because he/they/it doesn't publish the actual demo-specific numbers (shares) of the stations involved.

 

[K.M. Richards]

No no no I know those are six plus numbers I have known for years you cant tell the health of a station by those that's why I say a deep dive would be interesting. I never said that about Kysr 6+ numbers someone else did but K.M. I do appreciate your wealth of knowledge on radio. You David and Michael are great.

You are correct, Patrick. My apologies for the misattribution. Mr. "101tm" should have been the target of my statement (and I hope he reads it and gets the point).

 

[davideduardo]

You're talking 6+ numbers again, Patrick. As David says (and will likely continue to until it finally sinks in with everyone) those numbers are of little, if any use in determining a station's actual standing.

Everything has a price in accordance with its value and need. Nielsen, and Arbitron before it, have given away the 12+ numbers, some limited daypart rankings and cume numbers. That is because they are of no value to their customers, but help to keep the ratings company in the public eye.

So when a household is contacted to do a radio or TV survey, if people know and appreciate the name "Nielsen" they are more likely to listen to the pitch than if the company was unknown.

Every station has a target demographic and what is important to them -- and which should be what's important to everyone here, since you all obviously care who's doing better than their competitors -- is not going to be the 6+ numbers.

Exactly. Does anyone think that an all-sports station cares about the female numbers? Nope. That is because buyers for sports are looking for men in a certain age range and ignore everything else.

That is why I quoted the demographic rankings which Research Director has legally posted on a public website (obviously they have a license with Nielsen to do so) ... so you can have an intelligent discussion. Using 6+ as a basis instead is contrary to that, to me. (Probably not to David either).

For many years I would explain to my staff when I was a GM or to the talent when I was PD or consultant that they should not look at the 12+ numbers or their equivalents in other nations where I have worked.

Back when I was doing a Hot AC in Puerto Rico, I occasionally got a comment that "...but we are only #2".

I'd say, "look at the #1 station. They are all news. Nearly all their audience is over 50. Now look at 18-49. Who is #1 by a big margin? We are. And do you think advertisers want 18-49 women or grumpy old men who spend the day arguing about statehood?"

It only took one of those dissertations every year or so to keep out talent and sellers focused on what we had and not what we neither had nor wanted.

 

[101tm]

You are correct, Patrick. My apologies for the misattribution. Mr. "101tm" should have been the target of my statement (and I hope he reads it and gets the point).

Yes, I’m well aware of 6+ vs. demo ratings. KROQ vs. KYSR using 6+ numbers has been a discussion point on this board almost every month, plus thread after thread about KROQ for years so I pointed something out. Sorry.

 

[VMan]

Yes, I’m well aware of 6+ vs. demo ratings. KROQ vs. KYSR using 6+ numbers has been a discussion point on this board almost every month, plus thread after thread about KROQ for years so I pointed something out. Sorry.

You have nothing to be sorry for. Your original comment was about KROQ and KYSR. I read, and reread, Research Director's analysis of the demographic rankers, and there was no mention of either KROQ or KYSR in it, presumably because both weren't players in the demo rankings.

In the absence of having access to the rankers, the 6+ numbers are the only data points available to discuss, "worthless" as they are. Reasonable people can understand that advertisers don't use 6+ to make buying decisions, but it doesn't change the fact of what the 6+ numbers are.

If the 6+ data is irrelevant, then why does Research Director spend the first paragraph of each market's write up talking about the 6+ numbers? Perhaps it's not you who needs to get the point.

 

[CTListener]

If the 6+ data is irrelevant, then why does Research Director spend the first paragraph of each market's write up talking about the 6+ numbers? Perhaps it's not you who needs to get the point.

Good question. I'm guessing it's to get clicks from fans who don't know the numbers are meaningless and don't understand demographic breakdowns. Stupid clicks are worth just as much as smart clicks to the bottom line of a website trying to make some money off giving away something rather than asking payment for it.

 

[davideduardo]

If the 6+ data is irrelevant, then why does Research Director spend the first paragraph of each market's write up talking about the 6+ numbers? Perhaps it's not you who needs to get the point.

Because they know that producing any type of report on the ratings will get them publicity on the websites and boards and social media sites that station owners and managers might look at.

 

[ChannelFlipper]

Because they know that producing any type of report on the ratings will get them publicity on the websites and boards and social media sites that station owners and managers might look at.

It is always hard to tell which is more annoying, the posters who use 6+ ratings to make their points, which are sometimes valid, sometimes not, or the mods, Karens, and ruler-clutching schoolmarms who, like Pavolov's dog, will instantly come down on them hard and let them know that their opinions shouldn't be posted because they are not radio insiders privy to the stratified breakouts that must be paid for.

Actually it is not, it is quite easy. This is a radio discussion board, people discuss with the information they have. You can limit the posting to only "knowledgeable" radio insiders with only the most relevant information if you like. Of course the entire website will go away because that means only a few dozen people will be posting to each other, and no business model can support such an insiders-only paradigm. The board is a business right, not just a social club? Sometimes it's best just to chill.

 

[K.M. Richards]

Since some of the previous remarks are (barely disguised) arrows pointed at me, I will offer my opinion about discussion of stations based on the 6+ numbers in the hope that everyone will understand why I tried to create a more focused discussion by providing the rankings from Research Director.

As David has said so many times that he is probably extremely tired of having to do so, the 6+ numbers are released by Nielsen for public relations purposes ... to keep their brand name awareness high to aid them in soliciting new participants for the ratings process. Nothing more, nothing less. My guess is that Research Director only covers those because with those numbers being the most public, they would be criticized for ignoring them. But the stations themselves do not care what their 6+ numbers are (and the agencies especially do not), so any opinion expressed by anyone based on those numbers is essentially meaningless.

There is no valid reason to "discuss" stations that are not among the top players in their target demographics based on the 6+ numbers, because even if you had their demo numbers, the difference between -- to take the current example -- KROQ and KYSR is likely to be within the margin of error and therefore essentially the same rating.

By all means, compare stations by programming. Is "The Woody Show" doing better than Klein/Ally? Is the music mix more attractive to the target demo for one station than another? Is there a specific current title or titles that Alt plays to death and 106.7 won't touch (or vice versa)? Those are valid discussion points. How a station is doing is 6+ is not.

To sum up my overall opinion -- attack me if you want, but I am entitled to one -- anyone who passionately defends one station over another based on the meaningless, PR-driven, non-demo ratings makes themselves look totally clueless.

 

[semoochie]

Leaving out its effects on the success of a given station, are 6+ ratings a somewhat accurate estimation of its total audience?