FM duplication rules and KGLK/KHPT

[Mediafrog+]

Trying to digest this article and how the rules would affect The Eagle’s simulcast on 106.9/107.5: FCC Reinstates FM Duplication Rule For Commercial FMs – RadioInsight

Would they be grandfathered in? Or is this not the sort of situation being addressed here?

 

[Kent]

Seems like that simulcast began before the rule against FM signal duplication was repealed. Don't know if it had to file for an exception to that rule, which used to be granted in a handful of situations (usually that signals didn't do as well in the real world as on-paper), or if the two signals didn't have 50% overlap. If I remember correctly, the rule applied to city grade coverage, which is further inside the red line on Radio-Locator maps. I don't think the two have much city grade overlap.

 

[Ryan Williams]

Seems like that simulcast began before the rule against FM signal duplication was repealed. Don't know if it had to file for an exception to that rule, which used to be granted in a handful of situations (usually that signals didn't do as well in the real world as on-paper), or if the two signals didn't have 50% overlap. If I remember correctly, the rule applied to city grade coverage, which is further inside the red line on Radio-Locator maps. I don't think the two have much city grade overlap.

I don't believe this rule change will affect the The Eagle simulcast at all. KGLK and KHPT only have approximately 20% overlap of their respective 70 dBu contours ("city-grade").

 

[stan]

No change would be expected.

 

[secondchoice]

Are AM station's FM translators included?

 

[Ryan Williams]

Are AM station's FM translators included?

There is already an existing rule about an AM station rebroadcasting on multiple translators that have too much overlap.

 

[johndavis]

I don't believe this rule change will affect the The Eagle simulcast at all. KGLK and KHPT only have approximately 20% overlap of their respective 70 dBu contours ("city-grade").

The city grade contours pretty much miss each other. You can get both in your car, but only one or the other inside a building.

 

[BamaTX]

I don't believe this rule change will affect the The Eagle simulcast at all. KGLK and KHPT only have approximately 20% overlap of their respective 70 dBu contours ("city-grade").

It seems this rule would maybe apply in Salt Lake City where KENZ-FM and KHTB-FM have massive overlap. Outside of that, I can't think of any other examples in major cities.

 

[txchipk]

It seems this rule would maybe apply in Salt Lake City where KENZ-FM and KHTB-FM have massive overlap. Outside of that, I can't think of any other examples in major cities.

It would be close on KENZ/KHTB. The FCC only generates data and plots for 60 dBU contours -- primary coverage -- for the purposes of determining interference, spacing, etc. It doesn't generate the 70 dBU city grade contours, which the simulcast rules use.

I pulled KENZ and KHTB's primary contours (attached). If you use their circle plot tool and plug in the data to generate theoretical non-directional 70 dBU contours, it looks to be close to 50%...but KHTB is directional. There would definitely be city grade overlap in Salt Lake City as the northern end of KENZ's city grade signal would still just fully cover SLC.

 

[radiophiler]

What about the recently announced purchase of WLGD Dallas, PA by Times Shamrock which already owns WEZX Scranton, PA? I looked at the 70 dBu maps on fccdata.org. I don't know how to overlap the maps, but this looks like substantial amount of overlap. Times Shamrock already has an LMA to simulcast WEZX over WLGD.

https://fccdata.org/?lang=en&facid=66364&appid=45af8808c2a1424a9847c1b6063ebeb7&i=2

https://fccdata.org/?lang=en&facid=19564&appid=25076ff379c982f20179ce9b2f3b0101&i=2

 

[txchipk]

What about the recently announced purchase of WLGD Dallas, PA by Times Shamrock which already owns WEZX Scranton, PA? I looked at the 70 dBu maps on fccdata.org. I don't know how to overlap the maps, but this looks like substantial amount of overlap. Times Shamrock already has an LMA to simulcast WEZX over WLGD.

https://fccdata.org/?lang=en&facid=66364&appid=45af8808c2a1424a9847c1b6063ebeb7&i=2

https://fccdata.org/?lang=en&facid=19564&appid=25076ff379c982f20179ce9b2f3b0101&i=2

I think another close one. I can overlap the 60 dBu ones. Because these are class As, the contours shrink quite a bit between primary and city grade. If this were flat terrain and the signals were non-directional, WEZX's facilities would extend a 60 dBU signal 27 km, but a 70 dBu only extends 15 km. In this case, if you pull in the contours, WEZX's city grade signal would just skim Wilkes-Barre and WLGD would lose Scranton inside the city grade signal.

The FCC will be allowing stations to apply for waivers. If they don't meet the rules, they could apply to say that each of the facilities does not fully cover the two primary cities in the Wilkes-Barre/Scranton radio market and they need the simulcast to effectively reach both ends.

The other option may be to use Longley-Rice models due to the terrain that may show the signals have less overlap than what the contour maps show. In the past, the FCC has been willing to accept those.

 

[fybush]

Here's the 70 dBu plots for WLGD and WEZX. If it's 50% overlap, it's just barely 50%, and should be a slam-dunk case for a waiver if one is needed.

Again, I don't understand what the point of the reinstatement of the rule is supposed to be, if there are almost no real-world examples of problems that arose when it was abolished.

 

[txchipk]

Here's the 70 dBu plots for WLGD and WEZX. If it's 50% overlap, it's just barely 50%, and should be a slam-dunk case for a waiver if one is needed.

Again, I don't understand what the point of the reinstatement of the rule is supposed to be, if there are almost no real-world examples of problems that arose when it was abolished.

I don’t know either. With the 70 dBu 50% overlap threshold, there can’t be but a few scenarios where this may be happening and the terrain and market coverage in WLGD/WEZX’s case would seem an easy case to justify. Seems like a solution for not-a-problem…

 

[Ryan Williams]

Again, I don't understand what the point of the reinstatement of the rule is supposed to be, if there are almost no real-world examples of problems that arose when it was abolished.

I’m with you as well. The whole exercise seems like a waste of time and effort.

Is this really a play against certain non-coms operated by national networks with surplus signals that are duplicating city-grade contours?

 

[Kent]

Is this really a play against certain non-coms operated by national networks with surplus signals that are duplicating city-grade contours?

If I remember correctly, the duplication rule only applied to commercial stations.