No Sale Looming, ESPN 98.7 expected to pivot to Music

[K.M. Richards]

Not to “well actually” but Z100’s time as a de facto Alt would have been the best ratings the format has ever had in NYC. Especially in 1994 and 1995, Z100 was basically an alt-rock station that happened to play some Eurodance, Bon Jovi, and Madonna.

Look at the calendar. That was 30 years ago.

That was then, this is now. The world has changed. Listening preferences have changed. And radio has changed to adapt.

Since everyone has -- once again -- ignored Lance, let me quote him here ... with highlighting:

No matter how many times you say it, it cannot happen. #1 Audacy is at the ownership cap and cannot add another FM. #2. If Alternative was successful and more importantly profitable they would have retained it.

He is right. The rest of you dreamers are wrong. Your fantasy about Alternative ever working in NYC today are misplaced.

The horse is dead. Please stop beating it.

 

[tvk5195]

Alternative is already in NYC as Alt 92.3 via WINS-HD2 and it sounds great! Get yourself an HD Radio or stream on the Audacy app.

 

[K.M. Richards]

Alternative is already in NYC as Alt 92.3 via WINS-HD2 and it sounds great! Get yourself an HD Radio or stream on the Audacy app.

Actually, the fact that it is only on HD2, with that transmission mode's limited reach, proves the point about its lack of viabilty on a full signal.

 

[luperm]

Alternative is already in NYC as Alt 92.3 via WINS-HD2 and it sounds great! Get yourself an HD Radio or stream on the Audacy app.

...and they complain about that. Why would any sensible person want to invest in the format in this market?

 

[lanceventa]

Even the 80’s golds Z100 played in those days tended to reflect what Alts were playing inbetween new songs and not Z100’s past hits from that decade.

I know it was never an official flip and R&R at least kept Z100 on their CHR panel because so much alt-rock was crossing over, but if you look at what they were playing at the time they were basically an Alternative.

No Alternative station had Mariah Carey in heavy rotation. Just like any Top 40 station should do, it followed the trends and played the hits... But it may have been better off going all the way to Alternative like Y100 in Philadelphia, Power 99 (to 99X) in Atlanta, and a few others did.

It was the same issue WNEW had when it went mostly Alternative in 1995, but still couldn't completely pull the plug on its AOR heritage.

What you may also not remember is that era of Z100 nearly killed the brand. It wasn't just speculation, but Z100 came VERY close to flipping at multiple times in late 1995 and early 1996. Bonneville was even getting ready to flip Mix 105 to Top 40 should Z100 have abandoned the format. That's why Steve Weed was brought in as PD and Kelly & Kline hired to do mornings. Once Z100 brought in Tom Poleman and Cubby from KRBE and moved Elvis Duran to mornings with Elliott and decided to go back to a pure Pop leaning CHR, Bonneville instead took WMXV to Modern AC (albeit too heavy on obscure 80s New Wave to succeed).

 

[lanceventa]

...and they complain about that. Why would any sensible person want to invest in the format in this market?

To be fair, Audacy putting the Spanish Mets broadcasts on 92.3 HD2 as well is not conducive to supporting the brand either. Especially when they're currently running Channel Q on both 92.3-3 and 102.7-2 and could've built something around the Spanish broadcasts on one of them.

 

[macattack]

Look at the calendar. That was 30 years ago.

That was then, this is now. The world has changed. Listening preferences have changed. And radio has changed to adapt.

Since everyone has -- once again -- ignored Lance, let me quote him here ... with highlighting:


He is right. The rest of you dreamers are wrong. Your fantasy about Alternative ever working in NYC today are misplaced.

The horse is dead. Please stop beating it.

When did I say any of what you're saying? I never said or implied any of this? I said one teeny tiny anecdote from the annals of radio history and you're rushing me like a drunk elderly knight desperately looking for a dragon to slay only to find a windmill. I am very well aware that this was 30 years ago and all I was saying that a de facto version of the format got the best ratings in NYC... 30 years ago. I never said it could remotely apply to right now! The closest thing I have ever said to that anywhere on this forum is that there is a minute chance of the format working if every single thing goes right and that's not exactly a ringing endorsement of Alt in NYC!

Stop charging windmills and making "I like pancakes/so you hate waffles then?" discourse. You're being blinded by frustration with idiots and are lumping me in with them. I have always tried to either limit the scale and scope of my anecdotes and provide some sort of data to back them up, and I am not saying anything remotely close to what you are accusing me of. Period.

 

[K.M. Richards]

I'd like to make a point here that I hope will make the Alternative format cheerleaders (and their excessive use of exclamation points) go away.

As is well known, the last station in the market in the format was WNYL (Alt 92.3), which Audacy flipped to a simulcast of WINS almost two years ago. It would show a complete lack of understanding how this business works to believe that the ad revenue on 92.3 was sufficient to prevent a simulcast of the all-News format from happening.

That is what this is about: Ad revenue. Alt 92.3 didn't have it and Audacy believed they would do better with the simulcast. It was a business decision and none of your emotional attachments to the previous format matter. At all.

Before WNYL, the last time the format had any longevity in the market was the Active Rock/Alternative hybrid on the then-WXRK, which in my opinion was not a real attempt at the format. I suppose you could add in WNEW's Active Rock period, which lasted less than two years; at least Alt 92.3 made it to five.

The point is: Alternative has been tried -- more than once -- in modern NYC radio history. Station owners do not pull the plug on a format that is successful, defined by ad revenue. Therefore, all of the times Alternative has been done, it has failed in the long run.

And -- to revisit an earlier post of mine, pages ago -- look at what happened when 103.1 in Los Angeles dropped Alternative. For several years afterwards, people kept hoping beyond reason that the format would return. It has been over 15 years and that hasn't happened. Nor is it likely to, because once a format has been tried and failed multiple times in a market, no other station owner is ever going to try it again.

Listen to Lance and stop trying to prove that you know better than he does. He has a lot more knowledge about this, because he follows the industry as a journalist. In a match of credentials, I know very few people who can stand at his level.

The argument is over. All you will accomplish by continuing your cheerleading (and that's all it is, because not one of you has provided any factual basis for an argument that would sway a station owner) is this thread being closed. You've already diminished your credibility; don't go for the ignominious honor of "thread-killer".

 

[K.M. Richards]

I said one teeny tiny anecdote from the annals of radio history and you're rushing me like a drunk elderly knight desperately looking for a dragon to slay only to find a windmill.

However, that is the impression that I get when reading your posts. I am likely not alone in that perception.

 

[macattack]

However, that is the impression that I get when reading your posts. I am likely not alone in that perception.

I have long been a supporter of the Alternative format and that’s probably why you get that impression. But I am not so blind as to be unable to see reality. The format has never worked in NYC for a sustainable amount of time. Even the Z100 version was burning out by Christmas 1995 as Lance pointed out above. If I give the argument any room to breathe, it’s from the mindset of “never say never”. But the odds are exceptionally stacked against Alternative, or Country for that matter, working in NYC.

Maybe Lance is right and Z100 should have flipped outright in 1995 before competition showed up. It probably would have hung around for a while. Though ultimately I think the longest an “Alt Z100” could have lasted was maybe to the 2010-12 range when it undoubtedly would have met its demise like a lot of big market Alts did during that time. We’d still be right here arguing over the viability of the format in NYC. Nothing major would have changed.

 

[luperm]

To be fair, Audacy putting the Spanish Mets broadcasts on 92.3 HD2 as well is not conducive to supporting the brand either. Especially when they're currently running Channel Q on both 92.3-3 and 102.7-2 and could've built something around the Spanish broadcasts on one of them.

Fair point.

 

[K.M. Richards]

I have long been a supporter of the Alternative format and that’s probably why you get that impression.

That may well be. If so, I stand corrected.

But I am not so blind as to be unable to see reality. The format has never worked in NYC for a sustainable amount of time.

Okay, you can have your "realist" credentials back. 😁

Though ultimately I think the longest an “Alt Z100” could have lasted was maybe to the 2010-12 range when it undoubtedly would have met its demise like a lot of big market Alts did during that time. We’d still be right here arguing over the viability of the format in NYC. Nothing major would have changed.

Not even the exclamation points. 🙄

 

[luperm]

The point is: Alternative has been tried -- more than once -- in modern NYC radio history. Station owners do not pull the plug on a format that is successful, defined by ad revenue. Therefore, all of the times Alternative has been done, it has failed in the long run.

Just be prepared for the "whatabout" posts. Like...if only Alt had played less pop leaning songs and instead played deeper, obscure cuts, etc., etc., etc. Usually alternative/active rocks fans tell you all the things that they thought were wrong about prior attempts at the format and if they were the PD, they'd do it right.

 

[K.M. Richards]

Usually alternative/active rocks fans tell you all the things that they thought were wrong about prior attempts at the format and if they were the PD, they'd do it right.

Armchair quarterbacks are pretty much the same, regardless of format. I get it all the time from them, and ultimately they will irritate me to the point where I ask them which of us is an active, employed programmer. Once they concede that point, nothing they say has any adhesion.

That's why I am happy to see that the new direction for RD is aimed toward professional discussion of the business. It was far too dominated by the wishful thinkers, the dreamers, and yes, the ones who posted fantasy scenarios unhindered by any real moderation.

I do not mind radio fans asking questions about things they do not understand. I am always happy to answer those, and even to do a little research to provide an answer. But "they should put Alternative back on 92.3 where it belongs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" with zero factual justification is just plain cluelessness and those who make such posts don't even learn anything from the responses. That, I have no use for.

 

[Identnut]

Armchair quarterbacks are pretty much the same, regardless of format. I get it all the time from them, and ultimately they will irritate me to the point where I ask them which of us is an active, employed programmer. Once they concede that point, nothing they say has any adhesion.

At least armchair quarterbacks have Madden and fantasy football to amuse themselves with.

 

[K.M. Richards]

At least armchair quarterbacks have Madden and fantasy football to amuse themselves with.

Sadly, I believe those who make annoying meaningless posts here do so instead of engaging in fantasy football.

 

[exdjted]

 

[exdjted]

 

[K.M. Richards]

@exdjted Oh, THANK YOU for those memes!

 

[exdjted]