Can anyone identify this processor (photo)?

[Paul]

Oh, clearly we agree that in the wrong hands, any processing can cause undue fatigue. But from a purely technical standpoint, digital processors offer far less noise and much lower measured THD and IMD than stacked VCA or diode clippers.

The trick is to stay out of the clippers. I still prefer analog processors on most formats. Tune around the Sacramento stations. Mine sound the best. But I refuse to participate in a loudness war.

 

[davideduardo]

The trick is to stay out of the clippers. I still prefer analog processors on most formats. Tune around the Sacramento stations. Mine sound the best. But I refuse to participate in a loudness war.

One of the reasons why a degree of "loudness" with the fewest possible low volume moments is needed is that stations that don't that can sacrifice 20% to 30% or more of their PPM detections. This means that stations that don't do the necessary processing can lose a large percentage of measured listening detections.

 

[Paul]

One of the reasons why a degree of "loudness" with the fewest possible low volume moments is needed is that stations that don't that can sacrifice 20% to 30% or more of their PPM detections. This means that stations that don't do the necessary processing can lose a large percentage of measured listening detections.

My market lives and dies by PPM. I seem to be one of the few humans who can hear the PPM data bursts. PPM is a very flawed system, and unless you're willing to sacrifice audio quality, you lose on paper. But if you do sacrifice audio quality, you lose in real life. This is a game with no winners.

Thankfully, our target demographics understand this and that allows us to concentrate more on TSL than cume.

 

[davideduardo]

My market lives and dies by PPM. I seem to be one of the few humans who can hear the PPM data bursts. PPM is a very flawed system, and unless you're willing to sacrifice audio quality, you lose on paper. But if you do sacrifice audio quality, you lose in real life. This is a game with no winners.

Agency sales are based on numbers. You just can't change that by telling ad buyers that "we sound nice".

Thankfully, our target demographics understand this and that allows us to concentrate more on TSL than cume.

All ad sales are based on TSL. You are not doing anything unusual.

 

[Kelly A]

Agency sales are based on numbers. You just can't change that by telling ad buyers that "we sound nice".

All ad sales are based on TSL. You are not doing anything unusual.

And PPM market stations driving away TSL with aggressive old school processing are shooting themselves in the foot.

 

[davideduardo]

And PPM market stations driving away TSL with aggressive old school processing are shooting themselves in the foot.

This is the much commented subject, even parodied about live performances in "This is Spinal Tap".

Too many stations.... if you get the reference from the movie... set the "knob" to 11, thinking more is better.

And if they are not using the best possible newer processing, it will sound more than awful and TSL will be lost due to fatigue.

Some stations are so concerned about quarter hour maintenance that they forget that they win more by getting longer TSL which they will not get with fatigue generating nasty high compression that enables more PPM injection.

 

[yeoldeschool]

I hear that sort of processing on several stations down here, especially the more tasteful formats. However, there's still a lot of "dense and rich" old school processing going on (Jack FM, etc.). It's just that here, thankfully, they don't induce TSL-killing ear fatigue with their release timings or lean so heavily on their clippers that voices and pianos get ripped to shreds.

Stations outside PPM markets don't push the PPM injection to the point of distortion. In competitive PPM markets, every detection counts and the audio suffers.

You've lost me. Why would stations "outside PPM markets" even have PPM encoders on the air to either push or not push? Did you mean to say that stations outside PPM markets don't push the clipping to the point of distortion [to create more masking opportunities for the PPM]?

By the way, did you notice my question about New York in that same message?

 

[yeoldeschool]

The trick is to stay out of the clippers. I still prefer analog processors on most formats. Tune around the Sacramento stations. Mine sound the best. But I refuse to participate in a loudness war.

You have multiple stations on all-analog processing up there? I wish I could hear what they sound like. I used to spend a bit of time up there, long ago.

My market lives and dies by PPM. I seem to be one of the few humans who can hear the PPM data bursts.

You and I both. You might find this thread interesting: https://radiodiscussions.com/thread...e-watermarking-is-this-kfi-and-others.756462/

I still cannot stand that stuff. I can tolerate it with talk formats for brief periods (for the same reason the lack of audiophile quality never stopped people from wanting to hear what others had to say over distorted, early 20th century analog phone lines). But it has ruined my ability to listen to any music stations using it completely.

PPM is a very flawed system, and unless you're willing to sacrifice audio quality, you lose on paper. But if you do sacrifice audio quality, you lose in real life. This is a game with no winners.

The irony.

 

[davideduardo]

You've lost me. Why would stations "outside PPM markets" even have PPM encoders on the air to either push or not push? Did you mean to say that stations outside PPM markets don't push the clipping to the point of distortion [to create more masking opportunities for the PPM]?

I did not write clearly enough. I meant that stations outside PPM markets don't have the the need to push the audio as hard as there is no ratings benefit.

By the way, did you notice my question about New York in that same message?

I missed the question and can't find it. What was it?

 

[yeoldeschool]

I missed the question and can't find it. What was it?

It's at the top if this post: https://radiodiscussions.com/thread...is-processor-photo.772753/page-2#post-6747265

Also thanks for the PPM clarification -- I understand now.

 

[davideduardo]

It's at the top if this post: https://radiodiscussions.com/thread...is-processor-photo.772753/page-2#post-6747265

I never heard anyone comment on whether different modulation levels affect multipath.

Obviously, the higher you modulate, the wider the bandwidth occupied by the station. How this might affect multipath is not apparent to me, but I am a rather outdated and mediocre engineer so I am the wrong one to ask!

Also thanks for the PPM clarification -- I understand now.

Gotcha!