AM Radio is dying

[Kent]

As far as your first statement goes, one would think that members of this board would be MORE likely to listen to AM, if for no reason other than being a radio geek. Other than occasionally doing so myself, I don't know anyone who ever listens to AM. Maybe fans of right wing talk, but there aren't many of them in my social circle.

If even radiogeeks aren't listening to AM, that should speak volumes about its current state, let alone its future.

Personally, I still listen to AM, but it's usually just during football season. The Monday after NFL games, I will listen to AM in the car when driving to and from work, but I stream those stations when I get to my desk at work. About the only other times I listen to AM are when I'm in the car on an election night and when I'm on my way to work the morning after an election.

 

[TheBigA]

As far as your first statement goes, one would think that members of this board would be MORE likely to listen to AM, if for no reason other than being a radio geek.

The ONLY reason I listen to AM is to hear specific sports play by play in my car, and I'm out of range of the FM simulcast. And then I'm subjected to the noise and interference we often talk about here. But I would NEVER listen to AM for no reason other than to listen to AM.

If even radiogeeks aren't listening to AM, that should speak volumes about its current state, let alone its future.

Correct, and it just reminds me why I don't. If I wasn't driving 70 miles an hour, I'd listen to my phone.

 

[michael hagerty]

Well, there are always DXers, but they are seldom interested in the programming, just the reception of the signal.

DXing stopped being interesting to anyone other than the hardcore when the nighttime dial became multiple stations airing the same syndicated programs.

"Oh, look! George Noory is on this one, too!"

 

[SomeRadioGuy]

DXing stopped being interesting to anyone other than the hardcore when the nighttime dial became multiple stations airing the same syndicated programs.

"Oh, look! George Noory is on this one, too!"

CTListener said:
Well, there are always DXers, but they are seldom interested in the programming, just the reception of the signal.

@CTListener @michael hagerty
Because i enjoy being the outlier and exception...... id say better than 75 percent of the time for me its about the signal and logging it, but quality over quantity.

However, if ive got an exceptionally strong signal from a sttaion I like, ill sit and listen to it for awhile, like KVRI 1600 or Radio Nacional amazonias in Brazil

 

[gr8oldies]

If even radiogeeks aren't listening to AM, that should speak volumes about its current state, let alone its future.

Personally, I still listen to AM, but it's usually just during football season. The Monday after NFL games, I will listen to AM in the car when driving to and from work, but I stream those stations when I get to my desk at work. About the only other times I listen to AM are when I'm in the car on an election night and when I'm on my way to work the morning after an election.

Both News-Talk and Sports Talk have been on the FM dial where I live for a couple of decades. Now all the AMs and surrounding AMs have translators. I have a button set for the AM side of the Sports Animal just to save an FM button.

 

[michael hagerty]

If I wasn't driving 70 miles an hour, I'd listen to my phone.

Apple CarPlay and Android Auto are your friend.

 

[Mediafrog+]

DXing stopped being interesting to anyone other than the hardcore when the nighttime dial became multiple stations airing the same syndicated programs.

For me it was when the remaining clear channels were broken up, along with former daytimers being allowed to operate at night. Now it’s just station pileups every 10 kHz…too many frequencies now sound like the old Class IV graveyard channels.

 

[spt87]

AM dying - based on what's happened lately I would expand that to radio in general.

92.9 in Boston leased out to Bloomberg? Craziness.

On top of WFNX and WAAF (and way before those WBCN but the loss of Howard was the death blow there).

 

[TheBigA]

AM dying - based on what's happened lately I would expand that to radio in general.

Music radio isn't the attraction it once was. But if you have something more than music, you're OK.

 

[boombox4]

DXing stopped being interesting to anyone other than the hardcore when the nighttime dial became multiple stations airing the same syndicated programs.

"Oh, look! George Noory is on this one, too!"

It was still interesting. Back in the early 80's the DXers at IRCA complained about Satellite radio programs like Music Of Your Life, and night time programs like Bruce Williams and Larry King being on half the stations in America. Actually the variety one can hear on the AM band at night is better than it was in the 80s. There were few, if any, Asian programming stations on the air back then. Few, if any, Punjabi or Viet or Korean stations on the air back then. There wasn't the plethora of sports talk networks that seemed to hit the AM band in the last decade (and are now reduced in number, but there still are Fox Sports, ESPN, and a couple minor ones here and there).

In the 80s and earlier you didn't have as many Romantica stations across the West, or as many Regional Mexican stations, or any TUDN or Deportes stations (Deportes went off the air a few years ago but had quite a few stations in the West). The number of Catholic radio networks was much less. One could argue that because the 70s and 80s were pre-AM translator, there wasn't the variety of music heard on the AM band at night -- or, after the AM translator, revitalization scheme hit the amount of music on AM is the same as back then.

So, if you look at the similarity of formats on AM at night, it's probably got more variety now than it did in 1980.

DXing is dropping in popularity because Radio itself is dropping in popularity. On HF, ham radio is dropping in popularity, with entire ham bands mostly devoid of activity even when propagation is good. The hams are on the internet, or they've passed on and there are less new hams to replace them. Their numbers peaked 3-4 years ago and are now dropping in the US. But a good listen to some of the ham bands shows that many of them, if not most of them, are inactive. They've found other things to do apparently.

Radio is aging out. AM and SW are the tip of the arrow. FM will follow.

 

[Robert Douglas]

Those of us that have owned both AMs and FMs know that the AM audio is subject to noise and far less "quality sounding". To the listener, that means it sounds bad, noisy.

Maybe the "engineer" in question here hasn't really thought this thru. He doesn't see the elephant in the room: Radio stations screw up audio intentionally.

A good unprocessed AM will always sound better than the typical FM that is playing the squashed audio loudness game, as most seem to be doing. I have no research to quote, but I'm sure that dynamics always surpasses bandwidth when you measure perceived audio quality. Well, I'll make an exception for my old Mazda that wouldn't even pass the letter S on the AM band.

Sure, you have to be close to the AM transmitting antenna, but this is gonna be the case if you are going to listen to AM.

 

[yeoldeschool]

Maybe the "engineer" in question here hasn't really thought this thru. He doesn't see the elephant in the room: Radio stations screw up audio intentionally.

A good unprocessed AM will always sound better than the typical FM that is playing the squashed audio loudness game, as most seem to be doing. I have no research to quote, but I'm sure that dynamics always surpasses bandwidth when you measure perceived audio quality. Well, I'll make an exception for my old Mazda that wouldn't even pass the letter S on the AM band.

I wonder if most people who debate the merits of audio processing realize that our atmosphere is a compressor. Air absorbs violent oscillations more than weak ones. This has the effect of causing sounds to sound more and more compressed as they get further away. A perfect illustration is fireworks. If a large one detonates close by, the explosion's leading transient will audibly be much louder than its subsequent ambient environmental reverberation. But if a large firework detonates very far away, you may not even hear the leading transient -- just the sudden instantaneous onset of reverberation.

People don't often think about this consciously, but we do notice it subconsciously throughout our lives, and it does train our minds to associate compressed sounds with things that are large and powerful. After all, you never hear events with highly compressed dynamics in nature unless they're large enough to be heard from a great distance in the first place.

This is why some people like heavy processing. When it is applied to wet and synthetic (rather than dry and acoustic) music -- i.e. music with lots of low amplitude ambiance sandwiched between all the loud sounds (reverb trails, harmonic coloration, etc.), all those low amplitude sounds are sucked up in volume, making that music sound "larger than life" by triggering the psychological association we have between low dynamic range sounds and distant hugeness. And that adds a sense of excitement and power to that kind of music.

On the other hand, when you apply compression to music that is mixed dry and possibly is also acoustic (no guitar fuzz, no synths, etc.), there is no low level ambiance to suck up, and therefore, the music can't be made to sound bigger, more powerful, or "larger than life" by reducing its dynamic range. Instead, without that illusion of increased enormity, the ear is freed to hear that the dynamics processing actually shrinks the apparent size of the music by making it sound flatter. It's even worse when a multi-band stage is trying to pull up low ambiance in each band but finds nothing to suck up -- in that case, all the ear has left to perceive is the multi-band stage constantly torquing the EQ of the music, which layers in a sensation of artificiality on top of the aforementioned flatness.

If only modern processors could songpart in addition to daypart. The heaviest processing could then be applied only to the songs it was capable of dramatizing and adding the most excitement to, while the most "purist" distortion-free peak limiting only-style presets would kick in for songs that demanded no audible dynamics manipulation.

 

[yeoldeschool]

DXing stopped being interesting to anyone other than the hardcore when the nighttime dial became multiple stations airing the same syndicated programs. "Oh, look! George Noory is on this one, too!"

For me it was when the remaining clear channels were broken up, along with former daytimers being allowed to operate at night. Now it’s just station pileups every 10 kHz…too many frequencies now sound like the old Class IV graveyard channels.

It is both of these reasons plus one more. Consultant-driven homogenization of in-house talent, imaging elements, and music. DXing was once like taking a road trip around the nation to sample all the local color -- vernaculars, accents, attitudes, and culture varied all over the place. Find a station broadcasting from the Haight in S.F. and you hear a jock so stoned and sedated, he can barely talk as he introduces a set from the local psychedelic underground. Go 10 kHz up the dial and you're confronted by a strident, twangy southern evangelical preaching salvation while warning all with the ears to hear of the devil's rock and roll. 10 kHz more up the band and you're listening to a live remote from an old fashioned MC'ed big band dance hall in God's waiting room (Florida) -- or maybe to the sound of the bubble machine going on the blink again at the Aragon Ballroom. Etc.

Post-consultants, all that color turned grey.

 

[Kelly A]

It is both of these reasons plus one more. Consultant-driven homogenization of in-house talent, imaging elements, and music. DXing was once like taking a road trip around the nation to sample all the local color -- vernaculars, accents, attitudes, and culture varied all over the place.

When was this, the 1930's? Many of the larger stations back in the 40's and 50's were all part of a network that broadcasted the same programming to a wider audience coast to coast (not the Art Bell reference). Kind of like what you describe as the unpleasant aspects of today.
And believe it or not, I'm not trying to degrade the DX'ing hobby, but point out that radio stations have never programmed to the hobbyists. They program to get listeners from advertisers or donations from their local communities.

Post-consultants, all that color turned grey.

Radio consultants have been around since the 1960s. Wasn't that during the time according to you when Radio was so great?

To the vast majority of modern/current media consumers, they want quality and what they want, when they want it. They aren't DXing stations from around the country. They know when pressing 'this' preset on their mobile entertainment system or smartphone, they're going to hear their favorite music or podcasts. If a syndicated broadcaster is carried on multiple stations around the U.S., someone listening to one of those stations doesn't know, and couldn't care less if another station outside their community is broadcasting the same show.

 

[davideduardo]

It is both of these reasons plus one more. Consultant-driven homogenization of in-house talent, imaging elements, and music.

Consultants, for the most part, taught smaller market PDs and talents how to do better.

DXing was once like taking a road trip around the nation to sample all the local color -- vernaculars, accents, attitudes, and culture varied all over the place. Find a station broadcasting from the Haight in S.F. and you hear a jock so stoned and sedated, he can barely talk as he introduces a set from the local psychedelic underground. Go 10 kHz up the dial and you're confronted by a strident, twangy southern evangelical preaching salvation while warning all with the ears to hear of the devil's rock and roll. 10 kHz more up the band and you're listening to a live remote from an old fashioned MC'ed big band dance hall in God's waiting room (Florida) -- or maybe to the sound of the bubble machine going on the blink again at the Aragon Ballroom. Etc.

That kind of DXing encounter has not existed for over 7 decades. Live band music? 40's. Free-form rock? Late 60's. Aragon Ballroom? 40's and earliest 50's again.

Post-consultants, all that color turned grey.

Consultants had nothing to do with that. Some of the earliest ones enabled stations in smaller markets to have "major market" sounding formats and they taught many such PDs how do handle rotations, formatics and "stationality".

 

[davideduardo]

Radio consultants have been around since the 1960s. Wasn't that during the time according to you when Radio was so great?

Even in the later 50's we started finding out about consultants like Mike Joseph or the guys who had worked for Storz or McLendon who assisted other independent stations.

 

[davideduardo]

Maybe the "engineer" in question here hasn't really thought this thru. He doesn't see the elephant in the room: Radio stations screw up audio intentionally.

If most of your audience is in noisy cars, busy offices and workplaces or even the kitchen at home, you can't have "real" dynamic rang or you will be overcome by ambient noise.

 

[Kelly A]

Even in the later 50's we started finding out about consultants like Mike Joseph or the guys who had worked for Storz or McLendon who assisted other independent stations.

Exactly. It was before my time, but I recall reading that large corporations that promoted their products via owned radio stations used what amounted to marketing consultants to adjust the presentation to shine a better light on the product being promoted. Aka; consultant.

 

[TheBigA]

It is both of these reasons plus one more. Consultant-driven homogenization of in-house talent, imaging elements, and music.

Charlie Chaplin once said that talkies killed his career. The minute the people could hear his shrill, accented voice, they found something to dislike.

Remember that consultants merely consult. They don't own anything, and they can't force anyone to do anything. It's been said that a consultant looks at your watch and tells you what time it is.

Network radio did the same thing to talent. H.V. Kaltenborn had a high, staccato delivery that Roosevelt made fun of. After that, newscasters realized they needed to level their delivery. Networks and clear channel AM radio gave talent the ability to hear how others did things, and they wanted to emulate what they heard. They hired consultants to help them sound like everyone else. Today we have the internet that gives us the ability to hear people speaking everywhere. We don't need to DX a high powered signal. The playing field has been leveled and every station can be heard around the world.

 

[yeoldeschool]

Ouch. It wasn't my intent to portray consultants as negatively as some of these responses make it appear it came across as. Each of my examples of "unconsulted" broadcasts were, after all. negative (stoned DJs, fire and brimstone bangers, archaic social gatherings). Also, local color doesn't always mean positive spice -- it's also your Cousin Eddie hollering "Merry Christmas -- sh%tter was full" in full view of your neighbors.

I do believe that in the end, consultant homogenization of radio got carried away by going beyond just cleaning up its black eyes. I suppose that's why I used the metaphor "grey." But my intent with respect to DXing was simply to convey that cleaning up all its eccentricities removed the adventure and circus-like unpredictability from exploring the dial. Without all that, you were left only with the technical and dry side of the hobby -- logging distant catches like some bored ham radio operator.

Perhaps I should have just said, all that local color became more pastel...