When looking at markets like these, the ratings for the top AM stations are astoundingly good. Both of course have full power FM simulcasts, explaining their numbers. But the Nielsen data doesn't list the FMs separately due to them carrying the AMs' audio. Is there any way to find the ratings data exclusively for the AM signals in cases like these? I.e., to see what percentage comes from the AM listening and what comes from the FM listeners?
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Finding Nielsen data for the AM signals only when stations FM simulcast?
- Thread starter yeoldeschool
- Start date
Not in the publicly available data. Nielsen uses total line reporting to combine all audio feeds for a station into one ratings number whether it be an AM, FM, HD subchannel, translator, simulcast with another signal on the same band, or stream, unless requested by the broadcaster such as many Audacy, Cox, and Cumulus stations reporting their streams separate. But no broadcaster wants the AM and FM numbers to be split up as the goal is to make it appear as high as possible.
And a subscribing station can buy a custom report to show how much of the TLR number comes from each signal. There is no reason to do this often, as there is no sales purpose. But a station at some point may want to know if the AM contributes anything or whether it is expendable.
Do either of you know, from any sources (the grapevine or otherwise), what the AM vs. FM percentages are for KNX 1070 and KNX 97.1 in L.A.? And for the two massively-rated AM stations in the markets I linked in my original post? I wouldn't normally want to ask about proprietary data, but at the same time, I must admit I'm incredibly curious how things look in this regard for the one station local to me (KNX), and whether there is a pattern to the ratio when looking at some other examples of full power FM simulcasts.
The only thing we can do is look at the available evidence. So many simulcast stations these days almost never mention their AM frequency. That probably means the AM isn't contributing much. Let's look at some examples...
KNX never mentions 1070.
KCBS sometimes mentions 740. It used to do it more.
WINS always mentions 1010. But that's because it has been known as "Ten-Ten Wins" since its Top 40 days, pre-1965.
WFAN sometimes says its AM frequency.
KYW never mentions 1060.
WBBM sometimes mentions 780. It used to do it more.
WSB calls itself "95.5 WSB." It never mentions 760.
That might be right but I’m not sure. In many instances the station is still relatively new on the FM band compared to the many years on AM. KYW doesn’t need to remind most Philadelphians they are 1060 AM and any new listeners they are picking up are probably on the FM band.
I can't say anything about SF or LA, but when WSB dropped 750 from the imaging 5 or 6 years ago, the trades reported that over 90% of the listening was to 95.5 FM (WSBB), quoting a big wig at Cox Atlanta.
That ratio has probably gone up in the intervening time, since 750 is rarely, if ever mentioned.
That's a great tool for gaining a better understanding of which signal contributes what, especially if there's a debate as to whether to sell the property out from under your AM facility versus continuing to maintain that signal.
AM Radio just sounds so abysmal I can’t stand to listen to it is my main issue. It’s all sound quality, when there is an FM available, it isn’t a hard choice — at all.
Of course, if your FM's are translator based, selling the land would probably mean re-locating the AM to another site. Increasingly today, that's becoming a very expensive option.
Local stations, during local talk, asks the caller if they're listening to AM or FM.
Over a couple years it's been slowly changing. The FM just has pulled ahead of the AM.
Over a couple years it's been slowly changing. The FM just has pulled ahead of the AM.
Not to me, It all depends on the Radio your using
I’m glad if it sounds fine to you — but it’s also objectively just an outdated band.
That is kind of like saying “it all depends on the sink you are using” if I complained about water pressure. The pipe can only provide so much.
AM is incredibly limited due to the allocations and the lack of development towards the band as its commercialization is extremely limited and taking a hit.
Theoretically, that could be fixed, but as Scott pointed out, it would require too much to do. Re allocation and new tech? Not gonna happen anymore in radio. There is a higher chance of an FM band expansion and that’s slim too.
I'm pretty sure it was meaningless, but I once listened to the really strong AM (during the day) on the left side of the dial that was simulcasting a class A FM. It was easier than changing back and forth between similar stations. but they told me they would change the AM from music because no one was listening. The FM was standards, the AM went sports. Then the FM went classic country. These days both are Spanish, last time I checked. Not sure what format specifically in either case.
Thanks for the clues, @PTBoardOp93 and @boiseengineer. Does the latter, by chance, involve a low-altitude and/or low-wattage FM translator? The former (WSB/WSBB) is a full power wide area FM. So 90% listening to WSBB instead of WSB makes sense. But if only 50% are preferring the FM in boiseengineer's case, I'm thinking its FM must not cover as well as its AM.
Speaking for my own preferences only, I would listen to FM over AM's audio quality provided the FM signal was rock solid. But a weak FM, prone to signal shadows or picket fencing in a car, would definitely divert me to the lower fidelity but at least steady, high power AM.
I wonder what will happen to 50,000 watt clear channel stations like KNX-AM and WSB-AM when their numbers finally make the power bills unpayable. Obviously, stations with FM translators would need to keep their AM signals going regardless, in order to keep their FM translators. But for owners whose FM simulcasts are on stand-alone, individually-licensed high power FM stations, the AMs can be disposed of as soon as they no longer pay the Edison bill. Which got me thinking. Rather than scrapping them and selling the land for real estate development, what would happen if their owners simply asked the FCC's permission to shut them off during daylight hours, and only run them at night when skywave could give them larger coverage ranges than their FMs? Is there any money in selling advertising to listeners outside one's market (i.e.by making sure the AM half of the simulcast only has spots for national brands)? Alternatively, what about leasing those nighttime hours? Would syndicators like Premiere pay to put stuff like "Coast to Coast" on wide-area clear channel stations at night and keep all the breaks for themselves (for their national buyers)?
Speaking for my own preferences only, I would listen to FM over AM's audio quality provided the FM signal was rock solid. But a weak FM, prone to signal shadows or picket fencing in a car, would definitely divert me to the lower fidelity but at least steady, high power AM.
I wonder what will happen to 50,000 watt clear channel stations like KNX-AM and WSB-AM when their numbers finally make the power bills unpayable. Obviously, stations with FM translators would need to keep their AM signals going regardless, in order to keep their FM translators. But for owners whose FM simulcasts are on stand-alone, individually-licensed high power FM stations, the AMs can be disposed of as soon as they no longer pay the Edison bill. Which got me thinking. Rather than scrapping them and selling the land for real estate development, what would happen if their owners simply asked the FCC's permission to shut them off during daylight hours, and only run them at night when skywave could give them larger coverage ranges than their FMs? Is there any money in selling advertising to listeners outside one's market (i.e.by making sure the AM half of the simulcast only has spots for national brands)? Alternatively, what about leasing those nighttime hours? Would syndicators like Premiere pay to put stuff like "Coast to Coast" on wide-area clear channel stations at night and keep all the breaks for themselves (for their national buyers)?
It's only been a couple years of WINS on FM. Give it a couple more and I think branding will change to something like "92.3 FM WINS New York, all news all the time" and the 1010 will be slowly discarded into the dustbin of history.
K.M. Richards
Program Director, The Eighties Channel™
I am of the opinion that when it gets to that point, the idea of licensing translators on their own (Class A1?) will begin to gain traction at the FCC.
This is off the top of my head, but what if these were the pre-qualifications:
1. Translator has to already be "attached" to the AM it would be replacing, for some predetermined length of time before conversion,
2. Translator has to already protect full-power signals, as is the case now, and after relicensing would not be allowed to make future changes that would put the signal contour outside of the previous attached AM. But it would receive protection of its licensed contour at the time of relicensing,
3. Maximum ERP 250 watts, same as now, directional antennas allowed, same as now. If the existing contour is at a high elevation but causes no impermissible signal overlap (causing interference) that would be grandfathered in and moving to a higher elevation would require a decrease in ERP (which would probably be necessary under the "previous AM contour limit" provision anyway).
4. Regular call letters, initially those of the AM it would be "replacing". If those calls already exist with the "-FM" suffix, substitute the suffix "-FX" or something. TOH ID under 73.1201 required aurally, no more FSK.
I'm probably way out in right field with this at the moment, but I think circumstances will take us in that direction eventually.
I'm probably way out in left field, but I think the FCC should see the reality of the marketplace and implement what you have suggested right now. I'm pretty sure you would see 1,000 AM's shut down immediately and go just with their FM translators.
K.M. Richards
Program Director, The Eighties Channel™
That few? 😝
Three of the stations I consult in ABQ would file the first day applications would be accepted. Two of them are daytimers and the third has a ridiculously low nighttime authorization of 25 watts.
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