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Buffalo 92.9 WBUF Question

Mike Sheridan said:
Okay, well if it's a format not found on FM someone on AM might want to give it a try!
Click to expand...

Who would pay for it? First question you always should ask when wondering if something would "work."

The other thing that's changed since era of Shane Gibson is that radio is no longer the only way people hear music. When AM was no longer the only way people heard music, that was when Shane's station WGR flipped to talk. So now we're at a time when FM is no longer the only way people can hear music. It's made programming FM stations more complicated, as evidenced by this thread about WBUF. There are more stations than there are ways to pay for them. That's not a good sign. There are lots of ideas about how to fill format holes. Just no ideas about how to pay for them.
 
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TheBigA said:
Who would pay for it? First question you always should ask when wondering if something would "work."

The other thing that's changed since era of Shane Gibson is that radio is no longer the only way people hear music. When AM was no longer the only way people heard music, that was when Shane's station WGR flipped to talk. So now we're at a time when FM is no longer the only way people can hear music. It's made programming FM stations more complicated, as evidenced by this thread about WBUF. There are more stations than there are ways to pay for them. That's not a good sign. There are lots of ideas about how to fill format holes. Just no ideas about how to pay for them.
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YES it costs a lot of money to run a radio station and nothing for the listener to turn on the radio.
However, when there is a cluster of radio stations, sometimes it's best to just let a station or two have weak revenue, strictly on the condition that they exist as stations that are not a threat to sister stations.
Isn't that the idea here? This is why so many stations are under ONE roof, and why it's not like Canada, where they are restricted to a maximum of only 4 stations per market.
It's supposed to be more profitable to have a radio station or two that deliberately maintain low to no revenue on purpose, knowing that THAT has a better return on the investment than the radio days of 1995 where everybody stomped all over everybody, or even further back, when Magic 102 & Kiss 98.5 were at war with each other for the SAME ad dollars.
Long story short, the strong signals should be the money maker, and the weaker signals (hopefully not too weak) are where the "after thought" stations should be.
It actually surprises me that there's no easy listening station in Buffalo these days.
& yes, I DO mean easy listening, instrumentals and all, where I can say "Hey! I know that song!, and maybe sing along...in my head, to myself.
NOT Smooth Jazz.
The demand might not be very strong, but it sure wouldn't be a threat to sister stations in a cluster.
 
Mike Sheridan said:
Okay, well if it's a format not found on FM someone on AM might want to give it a try!
Click to expand...

Maybe. AM used to have potential if an audience was unserved or underserved, at least until an FM noticed and took the format out from under it. I'm not sure such unserved or underserved audiences exist today, though. Even my 77 year old mother has an iPhone and can get anything she wants. The audio is also better. You could, of course, point to Buddy Shula as someone who is making AM work in Buffalo. I'm not convinced, however, that his approach could work anywhere. He puts a lot of time, love and effort into those stations, and he's had a working relationship with the advertisers due to his longevity in the market. Buddy also has some FM translators, and his stations are available on TuneIn and Audacy. So, he's more than just a couple of AM stations, and he's as aware as everyone else where much of the audience is. A few months ago, I was talking with a major market jock about the liabilities and benefits of consolidation. He said, "If you build it, they will come." Uhhh....no, they won't, not in this day and age. You have to give the audience and the advertisers a reason to come to you. Just being there isn't enough anymore.

Yeziknoradio said:
However, when there is a cluster of radio stations, sometimes it's best to just let a station or two have weak revenue, strictly on the condition that they exist as stations that are not a threat to sister stations.
Click to expand...

Weaker revenue is one thing. No or negative revenue is something different. Defensive programming will only get you so far. Sometimes, it's enough, but it's not always. If you're operating a station that's losing money to protect your cash cow, you're eventually going to come to the realization that a competitor is going to have the same problem. Either that or your competition is going to realize you're intentionally programming the station to lose and is going to come after you anyway.

Yeziknoradio said:
It actually surprises me that there's no easy listening station in Buffalo these days.
Click to expand...

I'd think you'd be a party of one on that one!
 
Yeziknoradio said:
YES it costs a lot of money to run a radio station and nothing for the listener to turn on the radio.
However, when there is a cluster of radio stations, sometimes it's best to just let a station or two have weak revenue, strictly on the condition that they exist as stations that are not a threat to sister stations.
Isn't that the idea here? This is why so many stations are under ONE roof, and why it's not like Canada, where they are restricted to a maximum of only 4 stations per market.
Click to expand...
No, that is not how it works. Group owners want every station to contribute to the bottom line.

But not every format can be #1 in the sales demos. So if you have many stations, you want each to do as well as it can within the format's potential. Clusters mostly sell packages of multiple stations and not each one individually. So if a client wants mostly men, then the group packages 3 or 4 of its stations that reach men well, and does a package price.

In these cases, each station forms part of a combination, with even the lower rated ones contributiong.
Yeziknoradio said:
It's supposed to be more profitable to have a radio station or two that deliberately maintain low to no revenue on purpose, knowing that THAT has a better return on the investment than the radio days of 1995 where everybody stomped all over everybody, or even further back, when Magic 102 & Kiss 98.5 were at war with each other for the SAME ad dollars.
Click to expand...
There is no such thing as "the same ad dollars" as advertisers don't see things that way. Local accounts look at results, and if buying two similar stations that bring in more of the businesses key customers, then that is fine. When we analyze diaries or PPM results, we see that many if not most listeners don't listen to two similar stations... they have several choices based on mood or occasion and those are usually different formats.
Yeziknoradio said:
Long story short, the strong signals should be the money maker, and the weaker signals (hopefully not too weak) are where the "after thought" stations should be.
It actually surprises me that there's no easy listening station in Buffalo these days.
& yes, I DO mean easy listening, instrumentals and all, where I can say "Hey! I know that song!, and maybe sing along...in my head, to myself.
NOT Smooth Jazz.
The demand might not be very strong, but it sure wouldn't be a threat to sister stations in a cluster.
Click to expand...
As someone who owned a Beautiful Music syndicator in the 80's that had about 80 stations in 15 countries, I can tell you that not only is the format ultra-dead, but so are most of the listeners.
 
DavidEduardo said:
As someone who owned a Beautiful Music syndicator in the 80's that had about 80 stations in 15 countries, I can tell you that not only is the format ultra-dead, but so are most of the listeners.
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I doubt that very much, but a tweaking of the sound may require more modern instrumental versions of hit music & classics that are still soft and instrumental.
The real problem here is, I have no idea how those elevator music stations woke people up in the morning... Nice relaxing evening music though.
What did the late great 107.7 (before Nu Country) do for mornings?
I recall them as being one of the instrumental easy listening stations at one time back in the day...
 
Yeziknoradio said:
I doubt that very much, but a tweaking of the sound may require more modern instrumental versions of hit music & classics that are still soft and instrumental.
The real problem here is, I have no idea how those elevator music stations woke people up in the morning... Nice relaxing evening music though.
What did the late great 107.7 (before Nu Country) do for mornings?
I recall them as being one of the instrumental easy listening stations at one time back in the day...
Click to expand...
The generation that was in its thirties and forties during the rock 'n' roll boom of the '50s and '60s was likely the last generation to "age into" musical mush in their later years, as they were not comfortable with the new style of popular music that was replacing the big bands and crooners. Castrating Elvis and the Beatles by rearranging their songs for syrupy string orchestras made the music palatable for them as their preferred styles of music faded into history. The kids and teens of those years, however, ate up the uptempo new sounds and, by and large, still prefer uptempo music even in their senior years. That may mean oldies or classic rock or even contemporary country and r&b, but whatever they choose, the music is not sleepy. David is right. The devotees of the "snoozic" you think radio needs today are either deceased or too old to interest advertisers in.

I'll be 70 next year. I don't want to hear "Sunshine of Your Love" or "Ramblin' Man" performed by Percy Faith's orchestra. If I want old songs from my youth, I'll listen to the originals.
 
Yeziknoradio said:
I doubt that very much, but a tweaking of the sound may require more modern instrumental versions of hit music & classics that are still soft and instrumental.
Click to expand...
There is almost zero production of that kind of music, world wide. Syndicators, back 40 to 50 years ago, did a lot of custom music as record companies stopped serving that segment. But to do that, they had to have income from the biggest markets.

And the biggest issue in the 80’s was that the aging of the audience; advertisers no longer wanted that group.
Yeziknoradio said:
The real problem here is, I have no idea how those elevator music stations woke people up in the morning... Nice relaxing evening music though.
Click to expand...
The music was tempo controlled by daypart.
Yeziknoradio said:
What did the late great 107.7 (before Nu Country) do for mornings?
I recall them as being one of the instrumental easy listening stations at one time back in the day...
Click to expand...
The audience liked restful music and listened all day. The format had the industry’s highest TSL by far.
 
radiofan2023 said:
Playing instrumental versions of Little Richard songs
Click to expand...
Or by emphasizing soloists like Clayderman and Borelli and less Mantovanni and 101 Strings.
 
CTListener said:
The generation that was in its thirties and forties during the rock 'n' roll boom of the '50s and '60s was likely the last generation to "age into" musical mush in their later years, as they were not comfortable with the new style of popular music that was replacing the big bands and crooners. Castrating Elvis and the Beatles by rearranging their songs for syrupy string orchestras made the music palatable for them as their preferred styles of music faded into history. The kids and teens of those years, however, ate up the uptempo new sounds and, by and large, still prefer uptempo music even in their senior years. That may mean oldies or classic rock or even contemporary country and r&b, but whatever they choose, the music is not sleepy. David is right. The devotees of the "snoozic" you think radio needs today are either deceased or too old to interest advertisers in.

I'll be 70 next year. I don't want to hear "Sunshine of Your Love" or "Ramblin' Man" performed by Percy Faith's orchestra. If I want old songs from my youth, I'll listen to the originals.
Click to expand...
How about Percy Faith doing "In A Gada Da Vida"? Can we interest you in the Lawrence Welk autographed cutlery set?
I'll never forget the Welk version of the Beatles "With A Little Help From My Friends". The singer couldn't sing "Get High With A Little....", so it was left out.😑

Someone who was born in 1999 may barely be aware of bands like Pearl Jam or Nirvana. Sure, they can find it on You Tube. Time has a way of turning everything into nostalgia...
 
Yeziknoradio said:
Sure, but how did they do mornings? Even then, I don't think I understand how a station like that woke people up?
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You didn't have to wake people up. Beautiful Music stations pretty much remained with their formula all day long, although as David says, the tempo of the music might be a little more upbeat in mornings. In the 1960s, Beautiful stations were all instrumental. In the 70s, one vocal per quarter hour sweep was the norm. By the 80s, it was half vocal and half instrumental. People who liked the format were fine with that, no matter the daypart.

Same with Smooth Jazz. One vocal for every two or three instrumentals was the norm until the end when it went 50/50 as Smooth Jazz stations tried to save the format. Classical stations are also almost all instrumental. Maybe there is an opera vocal piece a couple of times a day. Again, fans are fine with nearly all instrumentals, even when waking.
 
Break out the Hollyridge Strings! This just sounds so weirdly funny in 2024.
 
WJYE...Joy....beautiful music, all the time.

Which many of us 'twentysomethings' changed to "elevator music, all the time".

At least the instrumentals were bearable over some of the 60s vocals that my parents' generation was hearing. Jack Jones warbling 'Wives and Lovers' was downright painful.
 
Easily Amused said:
WJYE...Joy....beautiful music, all the time.

Which many of us 'twentysomethings' changed to "elevator music, all the time".

At least the instrumentals were bearable over some of the 60s vocals that my parents' generation was hearing. Jack Jones warbling 'Wives and Lovers' was downright painful.
Click to expand...
Followed by Paul Anka "You're Havin' My Baby."
 
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