"In The Year 2037" sort of lacks the ring of the Zager and Evans original...
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KSFO To 810
- Thread starter lanceventa
- Start date
Well, WBBM-FM already exists (and has for a long time). But there was no KYW-FM at the time of the sale. KYW didn't start the FM simulcast until 2020.
That's right, I forgot about WBBM-FM, as they are known as B-96.
I guess the general rule of thumb is, if the calls aren't tied to a TV station owned by the radio stations' seller, then the buyer has unrestricted rights to use and market them.
That would obviously include WINS, KNX, KFRC, KSFO, etc. WCBS, KCBS, WCCO, KGO, KYW, etc. fall under the various agreements Scott Fybush so well explained.
That would obviously include WINS, KNX, KFRC, KSFO, etc. WCBS, KCBS, WCCO, KGO, KYW, etc. fall under the various agreements Scott Fybush so well explained.
Right. The sale of a radio station (usually) includes its intellectual property, of which call letters are a part.
UNLESS---the seller has those calls on a property it's keeping. Then it can set terms.
When KFMB, San Diego sold its AM and FM but not its TV, it decided it wanted the KFMB calls exclusively for Channel 8. So the AM and FM had to get new calls. It could have allowed one or both (the stations sold to different buyers) to license the calls for AM and/or FM, but chose not to.
So, to wrap this up...
The agreement between CBS and Entercom/Audacy (and in Boston, with spinoff partners iHeart and Beasley) on the use of shared call letters covers/covered the following radio stations, whose call signs are also used by CBS-owned television stations:
In comparison, the pact Cumulus inherited between Disney/ABC and Citadel allows the shared ABC radio/TV calls to stay on radio, apparently in perpetuity. WABC kept its call sign after Cumulus sold it. KGO survived after the format change to sports betting. But with the move of KSFO's programs (and perhaps call letters) to 810, we'll see what the future holds for the KGO calls on AM.
The agreement between CBS and Entercom/Audacy (and in Boston, with spinoff partners iHeart and Beasley) on the use of shared call letters covers/covered the following radio stations, whose call signs are also used by CBS-owned television stations:
- WJZ and WJZ-FM Baltimore
- WBZ (iHeart) and WBZ-FM (Beasley) Boston
- WBBM and WBBM-FM Chicago
- WWJ Detroit
- KCBS-FM Los Angeles
- WCCO Minneapolis
WCBSand WCBS-FM New York- KYW Philadelphia
- KDKA and KDKA-FM Pittsburgh
- KCBS San Francisco
In comparison, the pact Cumulus inherited between Disney/ABC and Citadel allows the shared ABC radio/TV calls to stay on radio, apparently in perpetuity. WABC kept its call sign after Cumulus sold it. KGO survived after the format change to sports betting. But with the move of KSFO's programs (and perhaps call letters) to 810, we'll see what the future holds for the KGO calls on AM.
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Well, we all learned a lot here. Or at least I hope so. Any questions? If so, the answer is likely in this thread.
Great conversation, everyone! 👏👏👏👏
Great conversation, everyone! 👏👏👏👏
Apologies if my question has been asked or discussed before. ( I tried to read the entire 14 page topic). And apologies if this question is considered irrelevant or inconsequential:
But what happens to the tower and the transmitter building? KSFO's transmitter now is near the Islais Creek Channel, south of the Chase Center, near 3rd St. and the 280 Freeway , in downtown San Francisco. The KGO transmitter site is the big towers that can be seen from the Dumbarton Bridge, ( Highway 84) which runs across the bay, from Newark to East Palo Alto.
Does KSFO dismantle their transmitter in downtown San Francisco and move down to Newark? I was just interested in what happens to the transmitter and tower. Thanks in advance to anyone who could answer this question. -- Daryl
But what happens to the tower and the transmitter building? KSFO's transmitter now is near the Islais Creek Channel, south of the Chase Center, near 3rd St. and the 280 Freeway , in downtown San Francisco. The KGO transmitter site is the big towers that can be seen from the Dumbarton Bridge, ( Highway 84) which runs across the bay, from Newark to East Palo Alto.
Does KSFO dismantle their transmitter in downtown San Francisco and move down to Newark? I was just interested in what happens to the transmitter and tower. Thanks in advance to anyone who could answer this question. -- Daryl
So far, nothing. Each station is still licensed to operate from the same tower sites.
I highly doubt any dismantling will be done. The ownership group will repurpose it as they see fit. But dismantling anything wouldn’t be very cost efficient. 560 is still a very good signal in the market so I’m sure they’ll do something with it (or find a buyer).
Daryl, just to amplify on fordranger797's post:
The KGO towers near the Dumbarton Bridge aren't going anywhere. All that's happened here is that on Monday, someone at Cumulus punched a button that routed the KSFO studio signal to the KGO transmitter as well as the KSFO transmitter.
When a station is sold, that usually includes any real property---so if Cumulus were to sell KSFO, the tower, the building and the land it sits on would transfer to a new owner.
In the rare (but more common as time goes on) case of a station going dark----completely off the air, with the license turned back in to the FCC---the station owner generally sells the land to a developer. Usually the owner will remove any property of value (transmitter, assorted equipment) and then hire a demolition crew for the transmitter building and tower.
The owner would then sell the salvaged equipment (unless it had other stations where that equipment could be useful) and the scrap metal from the tower.
Even for stations that stay on the air, that sort of operation has been happening in other cities, where the towers are on otherwise-usable land that can be sold for big money (not really the case for the KSFO and KGO sites):
The towers for KHJ, KABC and the old KMPC (now KSPN) have all been moved (a lengthy process involving site selection, engineering studies and FCC approval) so that the land, worth millions in each case, could be sold to developers for housing.
Here's the KHJ tower demolition in 2012:
And here's an aerial view of the ten-acre parcel today. Spelthorne Lane, Leyland Lane, Briar Rose Lane, Tudor Lane and Covington Lane are all on what was the KHJ tower site. The homes on the far left of the shot have been there for years and backed up onto the tower site (I couldn't crop any closer without losing some of the tower site land):
The building in the lower right was the KHJ transmitter building, expanded over the years to be studio facilities for KRTH, KROQ and KCBS-FM.
Audacy sold it in 2018 for $26 million and moved KROQ and KCBS-FM into the high-rise on Wilshire where KNX, KRTH, KTWV and KNOU already were.
Kaiser Permanente bought it and has been using it as a medical office facility, but next year, intends to bulldoze it to build a new surgery center:
Kaiser plans surgery center and medical offices at 5901 W Venice Boulevard
Kaiser Permanente, which has spent recent years building up its Southern California presence, is planning an expansion of its West Los Angeles Medical Center campus.
Cool !👍🏼 That is super interesting information. Thank you, Michael; and thank you to everyone who took the time to reply. Much appreciated. 👍🏼😀Daryl, just to amplify on fordranger797's post:
The KGO towers near the Dumbarton Bridge aren't going anywhere. All that's happened here is that on Monday, someone at Cumulus punched a button that routed the KSFO studio signal to the KGO transmitter as well as the KSFO transmitter.
When a station is sold, that usually includes any real property---so if Cumulus were to sell KSFO, the tower, the building and the land it sits on would transfer to a new owner.
In the rare (but more common as time goes on) case of a station going dark----completely off the air, with the license turned back in to the FCC---the station owner generally sells the land to a developer. Usually the owner will remove any property of value (transmitter, assorted equipment) and then hire a demolition crew for the transmitter building and tower.
The owner would then sell the salvaged equipment (unless it had other stations where that equipment could be useful) and the scrap metal from the tower.
Even for stations that stay on the air, that sort of operation has been happening in other cities, where the towers are on otherwise-usable land that can be sold for big money (not really the case for the KSFO and KGO sites):
The towers for KHJ, KABC and the old KMPC (now KSPN) have all been moved (a lengthy process involving site selection, engineering studies and FCC approval) so that the land, worth millions in each case, could be sold to developers for housing.
Here's the KHJ tower demolition in 2012:
And here's an aerial view of the ten-acre parcel today. Spelthorne Lane, Leyland Lane, Briar Rose Lane, Tudor Lane and Covington Lane are all on what was the KHJ tower site. The homes on the far left of the shot have been there for years and backed up onto the tower site (I couldn't crop any closer without losing some of the tower site land):
View attachment 8088
The building in the lower right was the KHJ transmitter building, expanded over the years to be studio facilities for KRTH, KROQ and KCBS-FM.
Audacy sold it in 2018 for $26 million and moved KROQ and KCBS-FM into the high-rise on Wilshire where KNX, KRTH, KTWV and KNOU already were.
Kaiser Permanente bought it and has been using it as a medical office facility, but next year, intends to bulldoze it to build a new surgery center:
Kaiser plans surgery center and medical offices at 5901 W Venice Boulevard
Kaiser Permanente, which has spent recent years building up its Southern California presence, is planning an expansion of its West Los Angeles Medical Center campus.la.urbanize.city
By the way, in a circular conversation on a friend's Facebook thread about the future of 560, I ended up grabbing this screenshot from the Cumulus site's San Francisco cluster page:
They're not even acknowledging the existence of 560 as a frequency nor KGO as a set of calls they possess.
The simulcast continues for however long it needs to (it's only been four days), but this seems to make it clear that 560 doesn't fit into their plans.
They're not even acknowledging the existence of 560 as a frequency nor KGO as a set of calls they possess.
The simulcast continues for however long it needs to (it's only been four days), but this seems to make it clear that 560 doesn't fit into their plans.
Or, more likely, that they don't have much digital staff left and no "560" content to put up until they have something new to announce there.
See also Lance's reporting that some clusters in the company can't even take now-fired talent off their websites because they've gotten rid of the people who would have updated the websites, too.
I wouldn't read too much into it....yet. As a simulcast, there's no use in putting up a logo. With that said, Im inclined to believe it's either up sale and/or being shopped around for a lease.
At least there is still an employee there to be able to update the website. Read the first part of this article from Radio Insight.
More Names Affected By The Cumulus Layoffs
The names of people affected by the ongoing Cumulus Media layoffs continues to slowly trickle out. There are couple reasons
radioinsight.com
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Is anyone listening to hear what, if anything, they're doing on-air to direct people to 810?
They had someone to pull "560 KSFO" and "810 The Spread" down and change the logo for KSFO, Scott.
This is the Cumulus corporate website.
Fair - but the point holds that as long as they keep simulcasting (which will apparently at least be through the rest of this year), there's no separate 560 product or brand for them to promote on the corporate site.
And it just may be that they leave it that way for a while.
Which is why I asked if anyone was listening and hearing anything that directs people to migrate from 560 to 810. When I listened Monday, all the positioners were "810 KGO", there's no acknowledgement of a simulcast or that 560 exists.
But you and I both know that audiences need great big neon signs for stuff like this. Hints don't work.
And why not? Cumulus isn't making these changes for the benefit of any of their listeners. If I'm a listener, I know that. If I'm a listener, by definition I can already receive the 560 signal. The 810 signal might come in better, or not, depending on each listener's location. But I doubt anyone's naive enough to think this is corporate charity to make their life easier. So again, why should they care? At least until the plug's pulled on 560, and it becomes 810 or nothing.
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