I know some classic rock stations mix in the early 90's grunge now along with the usual (Steve Miller, Bob Seger, Tom Petty) selection. I mean timewise it makes sense. But how do you really feel about hearing those bands along with the classic rock "traditionals." I like me some Soundgarden and AOC, but I just don't know if they "fit" mixed in between Hotel California and Piano Man. What do you think? Should a new format be created that focuses on grunge and call it Classic Hard Rock? Would it be viable? Or should Classic Rock just stay as an umbrella format for all rock from 1969-1995?
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What should eventually be done with Classic Rock as a format?
- Thread starter nexgencoop
- Start date
I think programmers are experimenting around the country with variations on all of that. A lot of it depends on in-market competition. As it is, a lot of classic hits stations have added 70s and 80s classic rock. Then you also have the Jack/Adult Hits stations using the 80s rock songs. If you look at Dallas, you'll see iHeart is running two classic rock stations: KZPS that covers mostly 70s/80s, and then KEGL is mostly 90s/2000s. They're calling KEGL either Mainstream Rock or Active Rock. The old stuff still tests well after almost 50 years, and still shows up strong in 18-34s in some markets, which is pretty amazing. I don't think it matters what they call it anymore. Just that it delivers results.
The format I work on is officially "Classic hits" and we are playing a lot more of the 70's and 80's classic rock like you said. I like it.
In Seattle KZOK 102.5 has dived into the 90s pretty hard. Given grunges roots in the PNW it makes sense. However, for the over 50 crowd who didn't connect with grunge it is frustrating. It's also worth noting that more classic rock stations seem to be leaning into 80s hair bands and even solo work by Ozzy from the 80s.
There are a number of markets where the second Classic Rock station is trying to be a bit more 90s/00s. And that usually means more hard-edged too.
Take Portland, Oregon. KGON, owned by Audacy, is the veteran rock station, stretching back to 1974. It is a standard Classic Rock station, The Stones, Fleetwood Mac, The Who, Eagles, Springsteen, Van Halen, Heart, even some Beatles. The competition is KFBW, owned by iHeart. More Red Hot Chili Peppers, Nirvana, Guns N Roses, Green Day. But they overlap for a lot of songs and artists.
In the latest ratings KGON is #9, KFBW is #15. I really don't think it makes much difference even in the demographics. I have not seen evidence that by cutting out the 60s and 70s, a Not-Quite-Classic-Rock station scores any younger in demographics. It is amazing how well Classic Rock performs for 18-34 and 18-49 men, even if many of the songs were recorded before they were born or were in diapers.
And by going considerably harder, I think these updated Classic Rock stations are subtracting a woman or older guy for every younger guy they add. Since we mentioned Portland, let's look at Portland, Maine. WBLM had been trying the harder-edged approach against WFNK, which leans a bit more pop. The ratings weren't good. WBLM is now very similar to WFNK and their ratings are about equal. Sometimes WBLM is ahead, sometimes WFNK.
Take Portland, Oregon. KGON, owned by Audacy, is the veteran rock station, stretching back to 1974. It is a standard Classic Rock station, The Stones, Fleetwood Mac, The Who, Eagles, Springsteen, Van Halen, Heart, even some Beatles. The competition is KFBW, owned by iHeart. More Red Hot Chili Peppers, Nirvana, Guns N Roses, Green Day. But they overlap for a lot of songs and artists.
In the latest ratings KGON is #9, KFBW is #15. I really don't think it makes much difference even in the demographics. I have not seen evidence that by cutting out the 60s and 70s, a Not-Quite-Classic-Rock station scores any younger in demographics. It is amazing how well Classic Rock performs for 18-34 and 18-49 men, even if many of the songs were recorded before they were born or were in diapers.
And by going considerably harder, I think these updated Classic Rock stations are subtracting a woman or older guy for every younger guy they add. Since we mentioned Portland, let's look at Portland, Maine. WBLM had been trying the harder-edged approach against WFNK, which leans a bit more pop. The ratings weren't good. WBLM is now very similar to WFNK and their ratings are about equal. Sometimes WBLM is ahead, sometimes WFNK.
That's a massive generalization.
There are 95 million Americans between the ages of 25 and 49. 29.6 million have student loan debt.
So, a bit more than two-thirds don't.
Student Loan Debt: How Much Do Borrowers Owe in 2025? - NerdWallet
U.S. student loan debt totals $1.77 trillion, and the average undergraduate borrower owes $29,300. Here are the key student debt statistics to know for 2025.
Meantime, as I discussed in some other thread, this assumption that people over 50 want to spend that money on things that radio advertises is flawed. People are trying to figure out how much money they'll need if they surprise themselves and live to 100. The average monthly Social Security check is less than $2,000 a month. The absolute max Social Security benefit is $4,800.
There's a reason you see so many posts online with subject lines like "Can I retire on just one million dollars?"
I'm over 50 and the problem I have with Sirus is the same one I have with cable TV. I'd gladly pay up if I can pick and choose which stations I want. I know that will never happen.
Not to get into an off-topic debate but of the two-thirds that don't have student debt, how many of those spend more than 30% of their income on housing. By definition they are cost burdened. My point is how much disposable income does the younger generation really have to spend on what's being advertised on radio.That's a massive generalization.
There are 95 million Americans between the ages of 25 and 49. 29.6 million have student loan debt.
So, a bit more than two-thirds don't.
Student Loan Debt: How Much Do Borrowers Owe in 2025? - NerdWallet
U.S. student loan debt totals $1.77 trillion, and the average undergraduate borrower owes $29,300. Here are the key student debt statistics to know for 2025.www.nerdwallet.com
Meantime, as I discussed in some other thread, this assumption that people over 50 want to spend that money on things that radio advertises is flawed. People are trying to figure out how much money they'll need if they surprise themselves and live to 100. The average monthly Social Security check is less than $2,000 a month. The absolute max Social Security benefit is $4,800.
There's a reason you see so many posts online with subject lines like "Can I retire on just one million dollars?"
Much of it. If you look at the breadth of TV ads and also at the list of the biggest spenders, you find that you have McDonalds and Walmart and grocery store items and stuff you get at the clothing store or the department store... or the stores themselves. And cars and car insurance. And so on.
Even those on assistance buy groceries. They have cares and need tires and insurance. And so on.
What advertisers want is people who don't have life-long established brand preferences. That means 25-54.
If you look at Sirius/XM, the biggest expenses are the satellites, the commissions to car manufacturers and customer retention.
Those expenses are the same with 1 channel or 1000. So you are not paying for stuff you don't use. Sirius/XM knows that each subscriber may only ever use 5 to 10 channels. But each one will use a different set for different amounts of time. The business model is based on pick-and-choose, but they have to give choices.
That's a fair point. Latest figures (this year) show 52% of renters and 23% of homeowners are cost-burdened by rent or mortgage:
Who spends more of their income on housing in the US? - USAFacts
In every state, the percentage of housing-burdened renters is higher than that of housing-burdened homeowners.
usafacts.org
So, who owns homes and who doesn't, by age group? Once you get to the 30-34 age bracket, half of Americans are homeowners*. And that number climbs from there. 35-39 is 60%. 40-44 is 62%. 45-49 70%.
So if we're talking 25-49, the people most likely to be under cost burdens are the first five years of that demographic (65% of 25-29-year-old Americans are renters). But only a little more than half of them.
Homeownership is rebounding, particularly among younger adults
From 2016 to 2022, the homeownership rate grew more for people under 35 than any other age group.
usafacts.org
*Why the big jump at 30? Average age of marriage in the USA is 30 for men, 28 for women. Average age for a first childbirth is 27 and a half.
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