Why Is Streaming So Mediocre?

[cc333]

Here we are, almost 25 years into the 21st century, and for some reason, we still can't get streaming working quite right.

We have virtually unlimited bandwidth, always on connections, and more content than ever, so why do we get choppiness and stuttering when we should be getting that smooth perfection with boundless content choices that we've been promised for, what, 30 plus years now?

I'm just frustrated because every time I go to try streaming something, it'll work for a little while, but it'll inevitably fail either with some sort of vague error that doesn't make any sense, or it will simply go silent for no reason. Sometimes it will get glitchy sounding and skip parts of songs. Sometimes it will not work in the first place.

All this on a tested and known working 1 Gbps internet connection.

Meanwhile, every other alternative is being slowly taken away, either via attrition because all the "good" content is being redirected to streams (broadcast radio and TV), or because the medium carrying said content is disappearing altogether.

It's not just audio streams, either.

I recently got new TV service, and when I asked the technician where the TV box was, he brought this little IPTV device that had only three ports for Ethernet, HDMI and power that only seems to work on certain TVs (I have a 10 or 15 year old LG that's perfectly fine and has at least two good working HDMI inputs that have worked fine with everything else, except inexplicably for this box).

Anyway, I managed to find another TV that worked, and I've been watching it for awhile now.

It's decent, and has a fair selection of channels that seem better than the other service I had, but the picture is choppy. I mean, it's sharp and everything, but the motion isn't smooth. Plus it buffers and glitches every now and then for no apparent reason (same fast connection that works perfectly fine otherwise).

Is it just me having bad luck, or do people actually put up with this mediocre and inconsistent performance from their modern entertainment services?

I never had these problems with analog radio and TV.

c

 

[KeithE4]

I've had CenturyLink (landline phone company) internet for 12 years and have had few issues and only a few outages, mostly related to my modem/router failing.

Cox Cable was another story. Cable TV was Job One, and internet service was secondary. Just plain garbage.

 

[radiofan2023]

Read this article and find the settings it talks about on your TV:

TV Features to Turn Off for Better Picture Quality - Consumer Reports

CR explains which TV features to turn off to boost picture quality. The features are designed to improve performance, but some mess with picture quality.

www.consumerreports.org

Also, no modern electronics are going to be optimized to work their best on a 15 year old TV.

 

[JeeperOne]

Streaming today isn't what Streaming was yesterday at the end of the 1990s going into the turn of the millenium

Back then, ANYONE could set up a Radio station & get on the air IN MINUTES on Live365 or (If you wanted to hide from the Music Royaltes Police) on SHOUTcast. On Live365, you even had A WHOPPING 365 MB of disk space to have your stream automated & streamed by Live365's own servers. On SHOUTcast, you had to BYOB (Bring Your Own Bandwidth). Beyond that, you could live stream as big of a playlist as you wanted

Streaming TV OTOH was still FAR behind Streaming Radio (Especially in terms of technology). Livestream came close to what Live365 was doing with Streaming Radio but then they just simply & inexcablicably stopped

After it focused it's efforts on being the precursor to NewsON, Livestream just simply disappeared into the abyss along with the others

Today, Live365 is around but it's NOT the same community-driven Live365 many of us remember from the end of the 1990s going into the turn of the millenium as it's A TOTALLY DIFFERENT company

 

[salemjedi54]

Streaming today isn't what Streaming was yesterday at the end of the 1990s going into the turn of the millenium

Back then, ANYONE could set up a Radio station & get on the air IN MINUTES on Live365 or (If you wanted to hide from the Music Royaltes Police) on SHOUTcast. On Live365, you even had A WHOPPING 365 MB of disk space to have your stream automated & streamed by Live365's own servers. On SHOUTcast, you had to BYOB (Bring Your Own Bandwidth). Beyond that, you could live stream as big of a playlist as you wanted

Streaming TV OTOH was still FAR behind Streaming Radio (Especially in terms of technology). Livestream came close to what Live365 was doing with Streaming Radio but then they just simply & inexcablicably stopped

After it focused it's efforts on being the precursor to NewsON, Livestream just simply disappeared into the abyss along with the others

Today, Live365 is around but it's NOT the same community-driven Live365 many of us remember from the end of the 1990s going into the turn of the millenium as it's A TOTALLY DIFFERENT company

I had a streaming station on SHOUTcast....with a dial-up POTS line.

 

[cc333]

I had a streaming station on SHOUTcast....with a dial-up POTS line.

The sound quality must have been terrible.

But then again, back in the late 90s and early 2000s, dial-up was all most people had, and if you were patient enough, you could "stream" stuff with quality that was surprisingly decent, all things considered.

c

 

[KilowattKat]

The sound quality must have been terrible.

But then again, back in the late 90s and early 2000s, dial-up was all most people had, and if you were patient enough, you could "stream" stuff with quality that was surprisingly decent, all things considered.

c

Getting on the internet, and staying on the internet was challenging back then. Especially if you tried using the FREE dial up offered by Juno and Net Zero. They were always sending out their floppy discs as part of your junk mail to get customers, and access the service. I quickly signed up with AOL after trying that garbage.

 

[Saladressing]

93.7 The Edge/Minneapolis was one of the early streamers, back in the mid 90s using Real Audio. Dialing up with a 2400 modem I was able to barely discern some Fountains of Wayne or Letters to Cleo through the crunchy buffering noises.

 

[EricStein]

Getting on the internet, and staying on the internet was challenging back then. Especially if you tried using the FREE dial up offered by Juno and Net Zero. They were always sending out their floppy discs as part of your junk mail to get customers, and access the service. I quickly signed up with AOL after trying that garbage.

I remember listening to the early AudioNet/Broadcast.com streams using RealPlayer in the mid-'90s. It was a novelty to hear radio stations, but the sound quality was sub-AM (even if the content was supposed to be in stereo), and the RealAudio system wasn't well suited for the days of dial-up connections. Windows Media was a major improvement over RealAudio in my opinion, but still proprietary. It worked good for the early home broadband connections of the early 2000's. Since then, technology, both in hardware and software, have made the streaming experience indistinguishable (or maybe even better) than a traditional AM/FM signal. If there are technical issues, it's probably most likely on the station's end, if you have a decent connection.

 

[KilowattKat]

The internet of today is light years better than what those of us in the dial up generation experienced. I really have no complaints regarding streaming quality, internet speed, and so forth, except I would like to see more expansion of wired high speed Internet providers other than cable companies, and in areas without FiOS.

 

[EricStein]

Cox Cable was another story. Cable TV was Job One, and internet service was secondary. Just plain garbage.

Cable TV WAS job one for Cox. Now they're trying to be a cell phone provider that also deals with internet. Other cable companies are doing the same thing, but I don't know if they're as aggressive as Cox has been with the mobile side.

The internet of today is light years better than what those of us in the dial up generation experienced. I really have no complaints regarding streaming quality, internet speed, and so forth, except I would like to see more expansion of wired high speed Internet providers other than cable companies, and in areas without FiOS.

Fiber companies are building out in many areas. However, some contractors have been hasty and causing property damage when they lay the fiber, giving homeowners a headache and leaving a bad taste in people's mouths.

'Someone's got to be responsible': Gilbert residents say high-speed fiber optic internet project damaged their property

The Town of Gilbert says they aren't responsible for the damage. Residents push back, saying the town signed off on the permits and are making money on the deal.

www.12news.com

 

[Miss Tuned]

The sound quality must have been terrible.

But then again, back in the late 90s and early 2000s, dial-up was all most people had, and if you were patient enough, you could "stream" stuff with quality that was surprisingly decent, all things considered.

c

I worked for a streaming provider for a while. Our most challenging client from a technical perspective was on a small British overseas territory in the Atlantic, with a 4Mbps satellite connection shared between all 4,000 people on the island, giving them an average of 1kbps each if they were all using it at once. The latency from our UK server to their studio location was measured in seconds rather than milliseconds.

With some work, we eventually got a 16kbps stream in place with reasonable stability with a nice long buffer of around 90 seconds, but it pre-dated the widespread use of AAC+ and the sound quality of 16kbps MP3 was dismal. It didn't stop them using it as an STL to get their signal onto FM on another island a few hundred miles away, though. It must have sounded dreadful on air, but at the time it provided a vital link for community messages between the islands.

The island has a fixed fiber optic link now, it's been connected to one of the Atlantic cables, and the stream quality is now a nice 128kbps.

 

[SomeRadioGuy]

I worked for a streaming provider for a while. Our most challenging client from a technical perspective was on a small British overseas territory in the Atlantic, with a 4Mbps satellite connection shared between all 4,000 people on the island, giving them an average of 1kbps each if they were all using it at once. The latency from our UK server to their studio location was measured in seconds rather than milliseconds.

With some work, we eventually got a 16kbps stream in place with reasonable stability with a nice long buffer of around 90 seconds, but it pre-dated the widespread use of AAC+ and the sound quality of 16kbps MP3 was dismal. It didn't stop them using it as an STL to get their signal onto FM on another island a few hundred miles away, though. It must have sounded dreadful on air, but at the time it provided a vital link for community messages between the islands.

The island has a fixed fiber optic link now, it's been connected to one of the Atlantic cables, and the stream quality is now a nice 128kbps.

Saint FM back when Mike.. i forget his last name owned it?..... with a stream over to AScension Island?

 

[DJboutit3]

Here is my takes why like 85% of internet radio stations suck now days

Audio quality is the #1 reason like 65% of internet radio stations still stream at 128kbps max it is not 2007 to 2010 and there audio is at clipping level Metal stations a lot of them seem to be at clipping level, or there audio is 7 to 10 db to low.

65% of internet radio stations playlist is low they only have like 12 to 20 hrs worth of music.

To have a top internet radio station it needs to stream at a min of 256kbps and have a min of 2 1/2 to 3 1/2 days worth of music. You want to compete with Spotify Deezer Youtube and Soundcloud that is why you need to stream at like at like 256. These stations that just sound like a cd changer with 40 to 45 cd worth of music and put no thought into audio processing are 105% fail before they even start streaming.

I run a internet radio station Phat Beats Radio playing Rap RnB Soul Funk Reggae Chillhop Acid Jazz Triphop Ambient Blues from the 1970s to early 2000s streaming at 256kbps OGG with stereo tool with good settings playlist has 168k traxx. I have been streaming on and of since 2008 and since 2017 pretty close to full time and my station wsounds better than most internet radio station and has never really gained many listeners. Peak from internet radio was summer of 2006 to like early 2013 since then there is like 80% less listeners for internet radio.

 

[radiofan2023]

Peak from internet radio was summer of 2006 to like early 2013 since then there is like 80% less listeners for internet radio.

What?

 

[Theater of My Mind]

Is it just me having bad luck, or do people actually put up with this mediocre and inconsistent performance from their modern entertainment services?

If you have 1GB internet as you stated, then you need to find the issue in your home. It's probably due to wireless congestion or a poor wireless signal in your room. Using a wired ethernet connection to your TV could be the easiest fix. If you must use wireless, reposition your router and make sure you're using tools to find the best band and least congested channels.

Are you using the cable company's router? They're not very good, try using your own from a good brand like Asus.

Also get new HDMI cables, preferably ones that are rated for 8K. HDMI standards keep getting updated and it's nearly impossible to tell which ones in your possession are incompatible with modern equipment. Sometimes the only way to find out if the HDMI cable is causing your problems is to replace it with a new one known to support latest standards.

I also have 1GB internet with very few problems. Can routinely stream 4k video on multiple devices at once with no dropouts. Wired connections to all video streaming devices and desktop PCs, wireless for music streaming devices and pretty much everything else. All good with much bandwidth to spare.

 

[DJboutit3]

What?

Peak when Internet radio was the most popular

 

[radiofan2023]

Peak when Internet radio was the most popular

I doubt that very much

 

[cc333]

If you have 1GB internet as you stated, then you need to find the issue in your home. It's probably due to wireless congestion or a poor wireless signal in your room. Using a wired ethernet connection to your TV could be the easiest fix. If you must use wireless, reposition your router and make sure you're using tools to find the best band and least congested channels.

I am using my main desktop computer and an ethernet connection.

Are you using the cable company's router? They're not very good, try using your own from a good brand like Asus.

No, I brought my own (Arris Touchstone CM8200A).

Also get new HDMI cables, preferably ones that are rated for 8K. HDMI standards keep getting updated and it's nearly impossible to tell which ones in your possession are incompatible with modern equipment. Sometimes the only way to find out if the HDMI cable is causing your problems is to replace it with a new one known to support latest standards.

Hmm, this was the one that came with the box. I guess I could try another (I have a few, though I doubt they're compatible with the newest standards, since they're all a few years old).

I also have 1GB internet with very few problems. Can routinely stream 4k video on multiple devices at once with no dropouts. Wired connections to all video streaming devices and desktop PCs, wireless for music streaming devices and pretty much everything else. All good with much bandwidth to spare.

It doesn't seem to be a bandwidth problem for me. When streaming does work, which isn't super common, it works quite well. It's just, inconsistent.

Audio quality is the #1 reason like 65% of internet radio stations still stream at 128kbps max it is not 2007 to 2010 and there audio is at clipping level Metal stations a lot of them seem to be at clipping level, or there audio is 7 to 10 db to low.

65% of internet radio stations playlist is low they only have like 12 to 20 hrs worth of music.

The audio quality of streaming is (in theory) much better, but what good is it if it only works maybe 50% of the time and is mostly lousy sounding with low bitrate and the ugly digital artifacts that brings when it does work?

The playlists of the streams I've found are pretty decent, but there are some odd ones out there.

For example, I found one that was ostensibly secular oldies, and they were for awhile, but then they started playing almost exclusively Christian music, which is fine and good but not my thing. I filtered all the Christian stuff out, and what was left was maybe a couple dozen oldies repeated maybe 3 or 4 times (a lot of the Christian stuff was repeated too.

I run a internet radio station Phat Beats Radio playing Rap RnB Soul Funk Reggae Chillhop Acid Jazz Triphop Ambient Blues from the 1970s to early 2000s streaming at 256kbps OGG with stereo tool with good settings playlist has 168k traxx

I have my own private stream that I use around the house (and one friend who knows the public IP address assigned to me by the ISP uses it at his house), and I have the encoder set to the maximum bitrate settings using AAC and minimal to no processing, and it sounds fantastic with the ~2k tracks I've added (with many more planned). Bandwidth to all but the poorest and most remote of places is virtually unlimited, so why aren't more people taking advantage of it?

c

 

[Miss Tuned]

Peak from internet radio was summer of 2006 to like early 2013 since then there is like 80% less listeners for internet radio.

I don't know if Nielsen collects these figures for the U.S., but in the UK the figures don't reflect that. Instead, the share of online listening overtook OTA FM/AM in May 2024 and now stands at 27.8:

Online overtakes FM and AM radio listening for the first time in the latest RAJAR listening figures

Brands owned by Global, Bauer, News UK and Nation are celebrating their highest ever listening figures with the latest RAJAR results for Q1 2024, whilst online listening overtakes AM and FM for the first time.More people are listening to radio in the

radiotoday.co.uk

Other than the presence of DAB, the two markets are technologically very similar in terms of internet availability/usage etc, so I wouldn't see there being a major difference in American listening habits.