Declining radio audiences

[wadio]

I can't say I understand all the issues involved with AM stations adding FM simulcasts (and I stream everything) but I've noticed quite a few mentioning FM that I wasn't necessarily aware of: WINS, WBAP, WLAD, etc.

WINS' new identifier is "1010 WINS at 92.3."

Could they legally turn off their AM transmitters, and would that really hurt them?

 

[davideduardo]

I can't say I understand all the issues involved with AM stations adding FM simulcasts (and I stream everything) but I've noticed quite a few mentioning FM that I wasn't necessarily aware of: WINS, WBAP, WLAD, etc.

WINS' new identifier is "1010 WINS at 92.3."

Could they legally turn off their AM transmitters, and would that really hurt them?

If the FM is a “full” licensed facility and not a translator, tha associated AM can be turned off and the license cancelled.

Fybush can give more details, but if the FM is a translator in the class that is linked to an AM for its grant, the AM can not be turned off without closing the FM too. If the translator can be linked elsewhere, such as an HD channel, the AM could be closed.

 

[wadio]

If the FM is a “full” licensed facility and not a translator, tha associated AM can be turned off and the license cancelled.

Fybush can give more details, but if the FM is a translator in the class that is linked to an AM for its grant, the AM can not be turned off without closing the FM too. If the translator can be linked elsewhere, such as an HD channel, the AM could be closed.

Thanks, it's complicated!

 

[davideduardo]

Other than a few listeners that might struggle with finding a different station to listen to, not sure the majority of the general population has really cared about Ancient Modulation stations in a couple of decades.

Of course, that blanket statement does not explain how over a third of adults cume an AM station every week.*

While AM as a band seems to get lower time spent listening than FM, the percentage of average listening in most markets is between 5% and 15% per the released reports. However, since many small AMs don’t buy the ratings, that number may be significantly higher.

“Cume” means “cumulative audience” and indicates the sum total of different people who listen for different periods and at different times each week. Some may listen for as little as 5 minutes, others for many, many hours.

 

[kwthom]

Of course, that blanket statement does not explain how over a third of adults cume an AM station every week.*

Yet, your statement seems to validate mine - with 2/3'rds of the adult population *not* in the cumulative audience in any given timeframe.

I mean, to this simpleton, the number of stations (at least here in the lower 48...) might be *too many* and, perhaps, that cull should continue.

-or-

Something even easier. Kill off a single class C/C0 out of each market; replace with four L1's and make two of those contingent on pulling the plug on some class D AM's

I mean, we're not trying to save Cumulus, Audacity or any other corporation, we're trying to save the entire industry from itself it would seem.

 

[TheBigA]

Kill off a single class C/C0 out of each market; replace with four L1's and make two of those contingent on pulling the plug on some class D AM's

To "kill off" means to take action. That's counter to how the FCC is handling this situation.

 

[b-turner]

To take the FM translator to 'primary' is a big deal. As it is now, a translator is 'secondary' meaning any radio station doing an upgrade that would have the translator causing interference, the translator must shut down or move to a new frequency. A translator is not protected from interference. The first step is to make translators connected to AMs primary.

Next is to determine revenue from the FCC. There are annual usage fees that are set annually. These are determined by market size and whether you are an AM, FM or translator. The AM annual fee must be absorbed somewhere. Would the AM and translator annual fees combined work?

If AMs retreated to just the translator, you will have many stations that just cover a piece of the major city or metro. It could mean programming beamed specifically to, say Katy, in the Houston, metro.

It will take an act of congress to have any of this happen. Half the NAB will love it and half will be screaming it is not fair.

 

[TheBigA]

It will take an act of congress to have any of this happen. Half the NAB will love it and half will be screaming it is not fair.

Which is exactly why congress will not act on this.

 

[michael hagerty]

I had a dinner meeting of Western Automotive Journalists in Alameda last night---108 miles from my house in Suburban Sacramento. I left the house a little after 3:00 pm. I was listening to Apple Music streaming, but since I was alone in the car, thought it was a good opportunity to do a dial scan of both AM and FM.

At 3:48, crossing the Yolo Causeway near Davis, the scan stopped on 1070. With very little static...well before sundown...KNX was coming in very strong, 410 miles from the transmitter in Torrance.

That was impressive.

It was about the only thing on either AM or FM that was.

It is bleak, guys.

 

[davideduardo]

Yet, your statement seems to validate mine - with 2/3'rds of the adult population *not* in the cumulative audience in any given timeframe.

And not including translators, there are about 2 times the number of FM stations as AM ones. And vastly more AMs are inferior facilities, including daytimers and those highly directional ones that don't cover even their local market.

I mean, to this simpleton, the number of stations (at least here in the lower 48...) might be *too many* and, perhaps, that cull should continue.

Yet, as I said, the number of FMs is vastly greater than the number of AMs.

Something even easier. Kill off a single class C/C0 out of each market; replace with four L1's and make two of those contingent on pulling the plug on some class D AM's

I mean, we're not trying to save Cumulus, Audacity or any other corporation, we're trying to save the entire industry from itself it would seem.

Nobody today is going to spend money building new AM stations. But there are plenty of them either serving niche markets or sustaining translators and they are not going away soon.

 

[semoochie]

I had a dinner meeting of Western Automotive Journalists in Alameda last night---108 miles from my house in Suburban Sacramento. I left the house a little after 3:00 pm. I was listening to Apple Music streaming, but since I was alone in the car, thought it was a good opportunity to do a dial scan of both AM and FM.

At 3:48, crossing the Yolo Causeway near Davis, the scan stopped on 1070. With very little static...well before sundown...KNX was coming in very strong, 410 miles from the transmitter in Torrance.

That was impressive.

It was about the only thing on either AM or FM that was.

It is bleak, guys.

No KFI?

 

[vchimpanzee]

I had a dinner meeting of Western Automotive Journalists in Alameda last night---108 miles from my house in Suburban Sacramento. I left the house a little after 3:00 pm. I was listening to Apple Music streaming, but since I was alone in the car, thought it was a good opportunity to do a dial scan of both AM and FM.

At 3:48, crossing the Yolo Causeway near Davis, the scan stopped on 1070. With very little static...well before sundown...KNX was coming in very strong, 410 miles from the transmitter in Torrance.

That was impressive.

It was about the only thing on either AM or FM that was.

It is bleak, guys.

I've picked up what I believe is WPGC in Washington DC at the same time of day, ten miles north of a town with a 1000-watt station also at 1580.

 

[michael hagerty]

No KFI?

No, but there is a strong signal (21,400 watts) adjacent here in Sacramento at 650. The scan locked onto that. Maybe it steps on 640 a bit?

 

[AMRadioGuy]

To take the FM translator to 'primary' is a big deal. As it is now, a translator is 'secondary' meaning any radio station doing an upgrade that would have the translator causing interference, the translator must shut down or move to a new frequency. A translator is not protected from interference. The first step is to make translators connected to AMs primary.

Next is to determine revenue from the FCC. There are annual usage fees that are set annually. These are determined by market size and whether you are an AM, FM or translator. The AM annual fee must be absorbed somewhere. Would the AM and translator annual fees combined work?

If AMs retreated to just the translator, you will have many stations that just cover a piece of the major city or metro. It could mean programming beamed specifically to, say Katy, in the Houston, metro.

It will take an act of congress to have any of this happen. Half the NAB will love it and half will be screaming it is not fair.

Yup - I know I've got into some heated discussions here with others over this, but even here in Western PA with poor ground conductivity, most of the AM stations I listen to (that come in with nice listenability - I can get most of them clearly even in my basement) the FM translators are un-listenable when they come in at all, even on a good FM tuner under ideal conditions. Take the stations the Stevens own that I was talking about in another thread. 770 & 620 come in loud and clear, even significantly further away from their site than I am located. Their translators? Nowhere to be heard. If they killed the AM signals, I wouldn't be able to pick either of them up at all, and their coverage areas would significantly decrease.
I'd post coverage maps for the primary AM and its associated translator to illustrate, but I'm not sure if forum rules allow that. Just looking at most western PA coverage maps over on Radio Locator, the FMs pretty much without exception don't cover as well as their AM primaries. Yes, I know those maps aren't necessarily accurate. Yes, my actual experience and observation is in line with FM translators with significantly lesser coverage than the primary AMs...

 

[kwthom]

The term 'over-radioed' seems to apply to most of this country. I recognize the financial aspects, both with the federal government and within industry.

The problem ain't fixing itself, is it?

 

[b-turner]

AMRadioGuy mentions the coverage of the FM translator being a fraction of the AM's coverage. He is correct. Look at this from a station owner aspect: you have 10 acres, multiple towers, all he associated equipment and maintenance on your AM to get 5,000 listeners among the 4 million in your AM's coverage. You can have 5,000 listeners as you cover 1,000,000 with that translator and super-serve that part of the metro from a lone tower, very little, if any land, a cheap to purchase, operate and maintain transmitter. You slice about $10,000 or more off monthly operating costs and likely much more.

Would an AM operator opt for just the translator if it was 'primary'? I can imagine how many would turn in that AM license before the end of the day.

 

[PTBoardOp93]

AMRadioGuy mentions the coverage of the FM translator being a fraction of the AM's coverage. He is correct.

AMRadioGuy does have a fair point, but it is also a point that is focused on larger markets. If you go look at Fargo (Market #187), the translators generally cover the population of Fargo and Moorhead in their totality. The population center is smaller, and there is less congestion on the FM dial.

You can repeat that exercise in a any number of medium and small markets.

KNFL/Fargo broadcasts with 50,000 watts days into its 6 tower array. All that metal in the air gives them coverage of a whole bunch of prairie dogs and not a lot of people. Prairie Dogs notoriously refuse to fill out Nielsen diaries.

 

[davideduardo]

AMRadioGuy does have a fair point, but it is also a point that is focused on larger markets. If you go look at Fargo (Market #187), the translators generally cover the population of Fargo and Moorhead in their totality. The population center is smaller, and there is less congestion on the FM dial.

Keep in mind that Nielsen does not measure cities. With a few exceptions of partial areas, it measures counties. And most markets are made up of multiple counties. Case and Clay in their entireties are the Fargo market. And the TSA includes about 10 counties.

You can repeat that exercise in a any number of medium and small markets.

And most markets are made up of many counties. For example, the Traverse City, MI, market might seem small with Traverse City itself only having one simulcast AM/FM until 1961, it is actually made up of 8 counties and no translator can cover even one full county ther.

KNFL/Fargo broadcasts with 50,000 watts days into its 6 tower array. All that metal in the air gives them coverage of a whole bunch of prairie dogs and not a lot of people. Prairie Dogs notoriously refuse to fill out Nielsen diaries.

But they do find them to make nice nesting material…