oWOW internet radio

[ProgrammingVet]

Perusing the threads after some time away. This one caught my attention. oWOW is (probably) never returning. Why? Can't find investors, especially after spending $1.5M over five years faster than USAID sends money overseas. No suckers out there, esp if they do forensics on the books. For the record, oWOW did not close down due to the pandemic, it just sped the timeline up. It wasn't making money before, more money out than in, couldn't pay the bills. Lack of investor funds actually shut the station down for a month Oct 2019, until the lone investor, Bass Energy, sold a gas well and was able to infuse $$$ back into the station. At that time there were only three full-time employees, two of them really don't count as they were the "owners", and two part-timers, from a full-time staff of over ten. Station was mismanaged from jump. Should've started small, gained metrics. Had none to start. How can you sell something - esp to agencies - without metrics of any kind? As a well known PD friend of mine says ... was a "goat rodeo".

 

[MediaLover]

I saw the guy behind oWOW was planning to relaunch it as a non-commercial station (sort of like an online only version of The Summit), along with other internet stations. I guess I won't be hearing anything new in those developments.

 

[Santa fe]

In the specific example of OWOW, the principals involved, John Gorman, et al, are that much older so I doubt they are particularly eager to try it again.
I believe it was a matter of being ahead of the curve and greatly optimistic about the overall media advertising climate. The business plan was approved by a major lender, but the ad revenue they anticipated evolved to mostly nightclubs, bars and concerts, never a very reliable income stream, and the pandemic put an end to that.
Today there are many online "radio stations" operating, WIXY Online, CLE oldies, Classic CKLW, most are labors of love, run by volunteers and they do attract listeners. Big music services like Spotify, etc., are getting a lot of online listening as are podcasts and the streams of some OTA stations are showing up in the Nielsens, but so far independent online "radio" becoming a widespread commercialy successful substitute for OTA seems further down the road, if at all.

 

[MediaLover]

Don't forget the FCB online stations that are all doing really well

 

[TheBigA]

My take on this is doing internet radio as a local station is a mistake. There's a reason it's called the world wide web. It's available everywhere. There are very few locally targeted internet stations that can survive because of the expense. The station may only target Cleveland, but the expenses are based on being available everywhere. SoundExchange doesn't give a discount just because the station targets one city. You pay music royalties for everywhere.

The real killer now is that people are turning away from traditional real time linear media. That includes TV. They want to hear the songs they want when they want to hear them. They don't want to wait until their favorites come up in someone else's playlist. So even those this station was based around heritage local presentation, the audience for that, especially after 20 years, has diminished.

 

[ProgrammingVet]

I saw the guy behind oWOW was planning to relaunch it as a non-commercial station (sort of like an online only version of The Summit), along with other internet stations. I guess I won't be hearing anything new in those developments.

In the specific example of OWOW, the principals involved, John Gorman, et al, are that much older so I doubt they are particularly eager to try it again.
I believe it was a matter of being ahead of the curve and greatly optimistic about the overall media advertising climate. The business plan was approved by a major lender, but the ad revenue they anticipated evolved to mostly nightclubs, bars and concerts, never a very reliable income stream, and the pandemic put an end to that.
Today there are many online "radio stations" operating, WIXY Online, CLE oldies, Classic CKLW, most are labors of love, run by volunteers and they do attract listeners. Big music services like Spotify, etc., are getting a lot of online listening as are podcasts and the streams of some OTA stations are showing up in the Nielsens, but so far independent online "radio" becoming a widespread commercialy successful substitute for OTA seems further down the road, if at all.

Yes, there was a bank loan, which was on it's way to being defaulted. No idea how that was handled. There was a City of Cleveland grant for $50K, that thankfully the then office manager filed the proper paperwork, otherwise the owners were clueless. There was a "small' investment of $250K from an employee's family member, and of course Bass Energy's $1.5M over the five years. oWOW's shuddering had nothing to do with the ad climate then. It was mismanagement of funds. Hiring a Marketing Director for $70K...when the station grossed less than $3K a month. Or the $10K conference table that was purchased. The owners had combined salary of $120K. Again, the station grossed less than $3k/mo. Plus there were other employees, music licensing, NexGen license, engineering fees, etc. The website was overhauled 6x, and was in the process of being done again by an outside vendor Sept '19. Why? No one could figure out how to use Wix! Station should've been a run out of a house, built metrics. Started with volunteers, then part-timers, gain momentum, etc. Good format, in part ripped off from V107-3 which was Ric Bennet's doing (Rocco the Rock Dog). The rest poorly executed. The pandemic, as originally stated, just sped up the demise. As long as Bass Energy funded, and wrote it off, it would've probably limped a long through the end of 2020. Beyond that... I doubt it.

 

[MediaLover]

Plus, oWOW's format can be heard on other stations in Cleveland and Akron, especially on WJCU and WAPS. They also stream too.

 

[ProgrammingVet]

My take on this is doing internet radio as a local station is a mistake. There's a reason it's called the world wide web. It's available everywhere. There are very few locally targeted internet stations that can survive because of the expense. The station may only target Cleveland, but the expenses are based on being available everywhere. SoundExchange doesn't give a discount just because the station targets one city. You pay music royalties for everywhere.

The real killer now is that people are turning away from traditional real time linear media. That includes TV. They want to hear the songs they want when they want to hear them. They don't want to wait until their favorites come up in someone else's playlist. So even those this station was based around heritage local presentation, the audience for that, especially after 20 years, has diminished.

Spotify an online/app version of the iPod. Still can get stale without continuous attention.

 

[ProgrammingVet]

Plus, oWOW's format can be heard on other stations in Cleveland and Akron, especially on WJCU and WAPS. They also stream too.

Summit well done. Kudos to Brad Savage and his team.

 

[TheBigA]

Spotify an online/app version of the iPod. Still can get stale without continuous attention.

That's up to the user. Some users are perfectly happy with stale music. We can see it on full display in the streaming charts.

 

[MediaLover]

Summit well done. Kudos to Brad Savage and his team.

Brad took the station to the next level and is one of the best AAA (Adult Album Alternative) stations in the U.S. I stream it in the Cleveland area, but get to listen to 91.3 when I am in the Akron area.

 

[Santa fe]

Yes, there was a bank loan, which was on it's way to being defaulted. No idea how that was handled. There was a City of Cleveland grant for $50K, that thankfully the then office manager filed the proper paperwork, otherwise the owners were clueless. There was a "small' investment of $250K from an employee's family member, and of course Bass Energy's $1.5M over the five years. oWOW's shuddering had nothing to do with the ad climate then. It was mismanagement of funds. Hiring a Marketing Director for $70K...when the station grossed less than $3K a month. Or the $10K conference table that was purchased. The owners had combined salary of $120K. Again, the station grossed less than $3k/mo. Plus there were other employees, music licensing, NexGen license, engineering fees, etc.

Sounds like the inside track there! But the question remains will any real time online only "radio" station even appeal to an audience that is moving away from that model to on demand entertainment. And online is indeed by nature worldwide, which is like the irony of the 50KW AM stations that can be heard in 32 states and half of Canada at night all carrying the same non-local network show.
What I like about streaming is the ability to listen to many fine, unique stations that I can't hear OTA, like The Summit, WQGR, WABC, and abroad from England, Australia, etc. But there's probably not enough of us to make a salable audience.

 

[Yabadabado1]

Plus, oWOW's format can be heard on other stations in Cleveland and Akron, especially on WJCU and WAPS. They also stream too.

And those two stations listed are LISTENER supported [in the case of WJCU, maybe some money from the University or student fees]. They're not selling ads. They have sponsorships from area business' .WAPS has their membership drives twice a year for a week each but it's not so over the top that it becomes super annoying. And WAPS is about the only station I listen to nowadays because I'm almost guaranteed to hear something new or something I haven't heard in decades. And Cruisin' the Decades is the bomb. Brad has done a phenomenal job with the station and lucky he has support from the higher ups. Way back in the early 80s I did something similar but only music from the 50s/60s/70s. Never thought about taking it further back than that and if I did, I think the listeners/PD/GM would have rioted.

 

[Miss Tuned]

My take on this is doing internet radio as a local station is a mistake. There's a reason it's called the world wide web. It's available everywhere. There are very few locally targeted internet stations that can survive because of the expense. The station may only target Cleveland, but the expenses are based on being available everywhere. SoundExchange doesn't give a discount just because the station targets one city. You pay music royalties for everywhere.

The real killer now is that people are turning away from traditional real time linear media. That includes TV. They want to hear the songs they want when they want to hear them. They don't want to wait until their favorites come up in someone else's playlist. So even those this station was based around heritage local presentation, the audience for that, especially after 20 years, has diminished.

This sort of new station has popped up across many markets over the past few years, where talent have lost their jobs through consolidation, station closures, cost-cutting, networking, voicetracking, all the things.

Among some of the people who were in radio and aren't in radio any more, there has been an attitude of "we're the radio people in this town, it's a travesty that we got canned, there is great public demand to hear us specifically on the radio, we're starting our own station!", normally online or on some digital platform, depending where in the world.

Most have sunk without trace, for two reasons: presentation talent are often the worst people to actually run a radio business; and with very few exceptions, most people weren't listening to the radio to hear the local jocks at all.

 

[TheBigA]

Most have sunk without trace, for two reasons: presentation talent are often the worst people to actually run a radio business; and with very few exceptions, most people weren't listening to the radio to hear the local jocks at all.

Apple Music and Amazon each have linear streaming radio stations with live jocks. They offer deeper playlists than broadcast stations, and even do feature shows with artist interviews. The radio stations are free for those with music subscriptions. The companies have discovered that people don't use their music services to hear live jocks. In the last year, both companies have cut back on their commitments to those internet stations. And those are trillion dollar companies with unlimited budgets.

 

[b-turner]

Most people don't understand sales and the importance of sales. Sales is the gasoline that fuels the engine. If the engine won't crank all you have is a beautiful machine not performing as it can. Sales is the tool to do all you want to do. Sales is like dating. You go out, meet folks, talk to them and over time earn their trust as you understand what they need that you can offer. Sales doesn't happen overnight it happens after building relationships. This is what most businesses don't understand.

Any business upstart run by jocks usually finds of that tightwad boss wasn't as much of a tightwad as you thought.

 

[NorthcoastRadio]

Plus, oWOW's format can be heard on other stations in Cleveland and Akron, especially on WJCU and WAPS. They also stream too.

95.3 WLKR-FM in Norwalk also carries a similar format on the western side of the market with all local hosts.

 

[ProgrammingVet]

This sort of new station has popped up across many markets over the past few years, where talent have lost their jobs through consolidation, station closures, cost-cutting, networking, voicetracking, all the things.

Among some of the people who were in radio and aren't in radio any more, there has been an attitude of "we're the radio people in this town, it's a travesty that we got canned, there is great public demand to hear us specifically on the radio, we're starting our own station!", normally online or on some digital platform, depending where in the world.

Most have sunk without trace, for two reasons: presentation talent are often the worst people to actually run a radio business; and with very few exceptions, most people weren't listening to the radio to hear the local jocks at all.

Some ppl still like the "surprise" of what a station plays next, as opposed to curating their own playlists via Spotify, etc. Of course the station can't be a version of someone's iPod on shuffle to appeal to a broad audience.

The mistake of many 'net stations is that they're programmed by those who've never programmed, play what they want, and/or go "too deep" to be the anti-terrestrial station. While radio isn't that hard, it's not that easy either. Creating clocks, rotations, flow, the right specialty shows, marketing, all takes experience. Having been a board op for a few years or a part-time jock doesn't qualify.

Terrestrial radio, to be relevant to key demos, to get agency buys, and therefore make $$$, needs to keep moving the demo needle. Sometimes at the cost of losing bedrock cume. Online radio does not. It can continue to super serve. I see this with online classic 60s/70s, and some 80s classic hits stations. That format also still viable in small and medium markets.

It's been going on for decades. Once ppl are over 50 they're discarded by radio b/c of ad buys. Yet, those over 50 have the most expendable income. Counter intuitive. You'd think they'd be smart enough to follow the money.

 

[TheBigA]

It's been going on for decades. Once ppl are over 50 they're discarded by radio b/c of ad buys. Yet, those over 50 have the most expendable income. Counter intuitive. You'd think they'd be smart enough to follow the money.

That only works if you run it as a subscription station, charging users for access. If you want to be ad-supported, you have to deliver the demos those advertisers want. If you're just running Google ads, it won't be enough to cover your expenses. Once again, in my view, doing it as a locally focused station limits you in terms of audience and therefore potential revenue.

 

[Kent]

WAPS is about the only station I listen to nowadays because I'm almost guaranteed to hear something new or something I haven't heard in decades. And Cruisin' the Decades is the bomb. Brad has done a phenomenal job with the station and lucky he has support from the higher ups. Way back in the early 80s I did something similar but only music from the 50s/60s/70s. Never thought about taking it further back than that and if I did, I think the listeners/PD/GM would have rioted.

I worked with Brad a little over 20 years ago. He's a great guy and a brilliant programming mind. I still consider him a friend, though I haven't seen him since about '06 and only talk to him once-in-awhile on Facebook these days.

It's been going on for decades. Once ppl are over 50 they're discarded by radio b/c of ad buys. Yet, those over 50 have the most expendable income. Counter intuitive. You'd think they'd be smart enough to follow the money.

While the majority of transactions involve people over 50, you'll never convince advertisers to put much effort into reaching that audience. I don't know if this is the entire reason, but you quickly reach a point of diminishing returns with that group. Wealth disappears rapidly after hitting 65, and roughly 80% of seniors are completely dependent on Social Security and Medicare. Most of those people are only buying the essentials, and many, if not most, of those struggle to even do that.