Until the last six months or so, there would be a ratings discussion started like clockwork within 24 hours of the numbers coming out, but there hasn't been such discussion in several months, not that there's really much to discuss. Here's the link anyway. Seattle/Tacoma
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Is nobody interested in ratings anymore?
- Thread starter bobdavcav
- Start date
Woud love to see the in-demo numbers on KIRO.
Maybe most of us who aren't radio professionals have come to realize by now that the 6+ or 12+ numbers are meaningless without demographic breakdowns and would rather not comment than make observations that the professionals will shoot down as irrelevant.
Agreed, but I'm not so sure how absolutely meaningless those ratings really are for RD discussion purposes. For example, during its relatively short AAA/Variety stint, KPNW had diving ratings in the 6+. It turned out to be a fairly accurate barometer of the station's performance in the real world. And usually someone would post a rundown from a radio publication article where the real ratings were discussed.
Maybe people here are tired of being told how useless it is to discuss 6+. The problem being that this is a radio forum, and there are no 'REAL' ratings available to discuss more accurately.
And time buyers are getting away from demographics and focusing on psychographic data from third party services. Such information ties in actual consumption with listening. So the data advertisers want is even further removed from the 6+ numbers as to make the laughable.
Not mentioned by Research Director, so it's likely outside the Top 10
RADIO RATINGS ROUNDUP, February 2025, Part III | Research Director, Inc.
Once again, we’re going boldly forward into the past. The Ratings Experts from RESEARCH DIRECTOR, INC. along with the math mavens from XTRENDS, bet
Since you brought this up, maybe you can tell us:
- What are these third-party services?
- What data do they collect and how do they measure it?
- How do they tie actual consumption with listening?
- What kind of psychographic profile are buyers typically looking for?
- If buyers are really getting away from demographics, then why is commercial radio still so obsessed with targeting that narrow 25-49 age category, deprioritizing or outright excluding virtually everyone else?
I always found the ratings discussions to be fun (overall). But we all know, perhaps all too well, that these numbers don’t tell the entire story. They provide a general sense of where the stations rank, but realistically, a lot of the key information is lost.
I absolutely do think it’s intriguing that some of the dark horse stations are in the mix though. 101.5 is not that far off. And I would like to see 98.9 keep chipping away at the empire Audacy built.
I absolutely do think it’s intriguing that some of the dark horse stations are in the mix though. 101.5 is not that far off. And I would like to see 98.9 keep chipping away at the empire Audacy built.
I know a lot of the main operators these days require registration to listen via their own apps and websites, so (as long as the listener registered truthfully), they generally have an age, a gender, various demographic information about the listener. They can also tie that in with third-party data from advertising and data collection partners, all those online cookies are there for a reason, they can tie the listener's account with a profile from a data broker to say "this is a 28-year-old woman, married with one girl, recently looked online at Disney vacations and new cars", which is more valuable than just a vague age group from Nielsen.
A lot of stations will then replace the over-the-air ads with personalized ads, aimed at the user's individual location, gender, profile.
Much of what I know is confidential and I know it due to a project I am part of. But, without revealing source, this is the Google AI response which touches some but not all of the participants.
Companies that analyze Nielsen radio ratings consumer data include Nielsen itself, which provides the ratings data, and other companies that use Nielsen data for research and analysis, such as Katz Media, MRI Simmons Insights, and Statista.
Here's a more detailed breakdown:
- Nielsen:
Nielsen is the primary source of radio ratings data, providing the data to various companies and organizations.
- Katz Media:
This company analyzes Nielsen's Audience Insights data to understand radio's reach and compare it to other media platforms.
- MRI Simmons Insights:
This company provides a platform for users to access data and analytic tools based on annual consumer surveys, which may include Nielsen data.
- Statista:
Statista aggregates data on markets, industry, politics, economics, and population, which may include Nielsen data.
- Other companies:
Various companies in the television, radio, consumer packaged goods, retail, advertising agencies, internet, music, video games, and sports industries use Nielsen data to predict consumer trends.
- The Radio Advertising Bureau (RAB):
This is an advocacy and research group that serves US radio stations and conducts research and aggregates sales and advertising data to promote radio stations.
Radio stations look at the data they "own" and the prevalent buying metrics. So far, radio companies have not bought in to this. One reason is that most of the work here is national, and radio in the U.S. is, unfortunately for them, still local. So radio at this time will get data on the medium but not the specific channels.
Buyers are getting away from age/gender demographics by buying media that delivers more insight. Radio does not offer that because there are no true national services. What there are consists of amalgamations of stations with different formats in some but not all major markets; that will not be measurable by the data analysis systems as there is no national commonality.
That's the thing; Everything in advertising now is customized to each individual.
The trouble is, that's broadcast radio's Achilles heel in the modern world. The closest it can get is zonecasting and that's for specific repeaters in specific areas, not individuals. For online listeners, you have that listener advertising tailoring option. Over the air, you don't.
This is why I always say the future of radio is streaming. It can do things broadcasting alone cannot
While 6+ looks similar to past books there has been a big change 25-54 in Seattle radio in 2025, whether caused by three minute rule or something else is hard to know. Missing from the top 3 from a year ago are KISW, KQMV, KJEB and KUOW. For the last two books KNDD has been number one, KBKS is now number two and Emma number 3. The END is a surprise, KBKS over KQMV is a surprise and EMMA after less than a year is in the position the old STAR 101.5 used to occupy, not big 6+ but dominant where it mattered. Smart move Audacy to fill the HOT-AC hole in the market when HANK appeared. None of the country stations are winning in core demos. Seems there is just room for one in Seattle.
I'm surprised Seattle has even one country station. I've always thought of Seattle as similar to San Francisco in attitude and culture. Country struggles mightily in San Francisco with only one signal. No one ever talks about SF being a promising market for more country music. How does Seattle rate multiple stations?
This question comes up a lot. Seattle had two country stations going back to the 80s and 90s. At one point, KMPS was #1 in Seattle. Of course there was a time when KSAN as a country station was also #1, and San Francisco had two country stations: KSAN and KYCY. But the demos in the market have changed a lot since then. Seattle has changed too, but mainly from other parts of the US.
Seattle has quite a few parts of the market that are more rural (where country is an attractive format). These areas are located to the north or south of the market (with notable pockets closer to the metro). The metro core itself probably isn’t driving most of the country music listeners. The San Francisco market lacks these key areas which could drive numbers for a country station. The one country station they do have is focused more on the rural areas south of San Jose.
Another quick note on this: most FM stations in Seattle cover quite a bit of area. So it’s worth it to target listeners who may not actually be in downtown Seattle (for example). It’s not as easy to do this in the Bay Area.
Jaye Albright it a very well known country radio consultant who lives southwest of the city. He's since partnered with former KMPS PDs Becky Brenner and Kenny Jay, who advise other stations around the country. I think Becky is still in Seattle. Lia Knight based her syndicated show there too.
I'm not surprised about Emma at all, I'm just surprised it didn't take longer to find its position. Over the past year or two, how does KJR-FM compare where it matters to KIRO-AM, and have those numbers changed dramatically from the numbers the same programming had on 950 AM? KBKS is a bit surprising. I think I've said this before, but I'll say it again, I've thought for years that KBKS as a Hot AC did well enough, and Power 93.3 was a vary strong competitor to Movin' 92.5, but it wasn't able to gain any traction. Now to see Hits 106.1, just Kiss with a new name, beating Movin' in certain demos is really interesting.
Jaye's company is now called Albright, O'Malley, and Brenner. So she's a full partner. I'm told Jaye is cutting back, and that's why they brought in Kenny Jay. Kenny is working with KKGO in LA.
In another thread I mentioned that the U.S. was 80% non-Hispanic white 50 years ago. Today it is just under 50%. So you have rapidly expanding groups that have a much higher probability of not relating to or even liking country music.
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