Telling listeners to "vote" for your station in a Nielsen diary distorts the whole ratings process. I can think of a variety of business processes that are even more unethical, but asking listeners to "vote" in a
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Buffalo February Ratings
- Thread starter SirRoxalot
- Start date
I assume "Dairy" was a typo. It seems appropriate, however. The premise of telling listeners to vote is Cowpie...
Sorry to break Nielsen’s precious rules, however, they don’t own the station. What I am saying is nothing new. For decades stations have been trying to skid around Nielsen’s rules. What is unethical is Nielsen’s Subcriber First policy giving minorities and women an advantage to show in the book for free. The folks running Nielsen are not broadcasters. I am
Although you do not see these minority stations appear in the radioinsight page, they absolutely appear at the subscriber and agency level. Total discrimination. That’s unethical
Please don’t preach on how to program. You were the first one to say WECK could never get a 4 share.
The supreme court allows radio and advertising to target audiences based on demographics such as race, sex, age, ethnicity, and education. Nielsen services that demographic information. Also the FCC has no jurisdiction over Nielsen.
Exactly, which is why I say #### Nielsen. Let them run their company and everyone else can bow to them. I don’t.
Without getting overly political, there was considerable pressure put on Nielsen to "give a break" to minority and women owned stations, particularly in the last few years.
The people running Nielsen have enormous daily contact with radio stations and radio groups and trade associations. But they also have to work with the MRC, which was created 65 years ago to prevent "bad practices" involving ratings. The MRC is particularly supported by advertisers and their agencies because they need a pricing metric.
Getting people to "vote" for your station destroys the pricing metric as you are trying to convert listeners into fans who fill in exaggerated or false listening to your station.
I'm a broadcaster, too. I built my first commercial station when I was 18 and have been at it for 66 years now.
Name me one of those stations that will get agency buys. The immense and almost total majority of those that don't subscribe but are minority / female owned don't "score" high enough to make any kind of agency buy. You own an agency, and should know that it is rare... to say the least... that a station with a 0.3 share (an example) gets on any buy (unless it is combo sold with some co-owned bigger stations as a bonus).
The same Nielsen policy also applies to religious radio stations including K-Love.
Nobody "bows" to Nielsen. But we use proper channels to voice any complaints, and generally find that they are responded to properly.
I remember back in the early 80s, a medium market country AM out west tied together a promotion involving ticket giveaways for the movie "Tron" along with Arby's coupons. You had to keep track of songs and WRITE THEM DOWN in your Arby's-Tron diary and then call in to win when prompted. "So don't forget to fill out your Arby's-Tron diary!"
And NO, they did not actually use the word "diary", but it was something similar. And NO, they were not listed below the line that book. Either Arbitron wasn't told or thought it was so stupid that it wouldn't make a difference.
You ask what stations I would buy that don't show up? WECK! WECK has great numbers, but nobody can now see them because my male Caucasian owned company is being discriminated against. Correct, I would buy none of the other stations that do not show up, but WECK is a bit different. It actually does well. You are missing my point. Neilsen is not giving a true reflection of listening when they are not including stations
I have tried numerous channels with the correct people. I have not gotten responded to properly. When you are letting a company control what you say on air, you are "bowing" to someone. Only the FCC should be able to do that
We look at this differently David.
The has been done in the Buffalo market as well, in the 80's and 90s.
Yes, in Buffalo, K-Love shows up in the book. Not the one you see on radio insight, but in the ones stations and agencies see. Guess who does not show up?
By choice. K-Love has no choice.
Don't advertisers get that treatment? If I advertise, you're letting my company control what you say on the air.
What is being shown is one of two things:
- You do not want to buy the ratings because you feel you can do as well without them,
- You do not want to buy the ratings because you are playing Quixote to Nielsen's windmill.
In the second case, you are a small station in a medium market that can't influence the outcome. Yes, the policy of listing those "minority" owned stations is prima facie discrimination against White men and would appear to be a product of current events in the last four years or so.
Personally, I believe that Nielsen should list all stations, subscribed or not. It does not help radio to hide verifiable listening. Hopefully, the changes in what larger agencies want and the possibilities of new entrants into the media measurement field will either change the Nielsen policies or give us alternatives.
But when you ask for change, you have to be ready for a radical upset of the system that can even be disruptive. Ad agencies and their clients want data that shows consumer performance, not just listening or viewing or streaming. That means data that will show which media deliver through which channels consumers of particular product categories or services.
Nielsen is more of a friend of radio than you think. Any new measurement will start on the internet and streaming side and be far less a partner of radio than what we have now.
But that policy also includes religious stations. Who is being discriminated here? Jewish people? Atheists? It's no different than a Taco Bell giving people a senior citizen discount because of their age. Religious stations also get discounts from certain music royalties. Total discrimination. Put those priests in prison.
If what you say can materially affect a known ratings service that is industry-accepted and MRC accredited, then you are doing a disservice to radio.
Station owners are subject to all kinds of rules and regulations besides the FCC. Entities like the FTC control what can be said in advertising. Laws may affect running ads for, as an example, marijuana. Zoning affects towers, office locations and the like. We have to allow fire inspections of our facilities. We follow all kinds of laws and rules about taxes, permits and license. The FCC controls our towers. We must comply with labor laws, reporting, EEO reports and the like. And lots more.
When we rent an office, we agree on things like parking spaces, fire prevention, inspection, even foot traffic in some cases. If we don't comply, we are evicted.
Nielsen has rules intended to prevent what we have known as "ratings distortion and bias" for nearly six decades. Pretty much everyone in the business agrees that the rules are fair. Except you.
You surely know the statement about trying the same thing over and over and hoping for a different outcome being the definition of being stubborn... or of insanity.
I look at industry accepted practices. You are trying to drive on the wrong side of the solid yellow lines.
How many all-Jewish stations are there? Where is there an atheist station?
There is a separate policy for non-commercial stations. In the past, they could not even subscribe directly with Arbitron. The purpose of all ratings, going back to the ones Huff cites from the 30's, is to assist advertisers in evaluating price vs. product; non-commercial stations don't fit that model.
While I know you are making a point with a bit of sarcasm, I think we are forgetting that the commercial religious stations like the ones that Salem just sold to EMF / K-Love negotiated within the same rate structure as any other group of commercial stations.
That's not the point? How many black owned radio stations are there in Buffalo?
I think Pacifica would consider themselves to be atheists.
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