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Big 98.1

That example reminds me of the blend everyone thought would work, in the programming world. When country was resurgent in the 90s, there were these attempts at country-rock hybrids due to exactly that mindset. Of course there'd be room for a station playing Alabama and "Sweet Home Alabama." But it never worked, or if it did, not for very long.

I think part of this confusion about "classic hits" stems from the use of the word classic. There's a certain level of consensus over time, even about music that ages off of radio. There's very few people, be they fans of the music or not, that would argue that the Beatles, Rolling Stones, Fleetwood Mac or Stevie Wonder aren't classics. Artists that were both critically acclaimed and popular, that changed the game and became part of the canon of pop and rock. So when "oldies" wasn't in vogue, and the name changed, the artists still broadly had that multi-generational consensus of acclaim, if not personal taste.

Evanescence, Montell Jordan, Destiny's Child? Popular songs and artists, yes. Of course if that's your target audience, play it.

But classic? Like it or not, that has a certain weight. That's what I think a lot of us whose tastes are becoming less served by the "classic hits" format have a reaction to. I don't think if the format had been know as "pop gold" there'd be quite the same visceral response.
 
Andy Travis said:
When country was resurgent in the 90s, there were these attempts at country-rock hybrids due to exactly that mindset. Of course there'd be room for a station playing Alabama and "Sweet Home Alabama." But it never worked, or if it did, not for very long.
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What we learned from that experience is that spin-offs of the country format are not as successful as the integrated consensus format that's been in use for over 30 years. In other words, the country audience is big, but not big enough to support splinter formats.

However, in 2009, Kid Rock released a crossover song called "All Summer Long" that incorporated riffs from both Sweet Home Alabama and Werewolves of London. The song was a hit in rock, pop, and country. This song still gets country airplay today.
 
TheBigA said:
What we learned from that experience is that spin-offs of the country format are not as successful as the integrated consensus format that's been in use for over 30 years. In other words, the country audience is big, but not big enough to support splinter formats.

However, in 2009, Kid Rock released a crossover song called "All Summer Long" that incorporated riffs from both Sweet Home Alabama and Werewolves of London. The song was a hit in rock, pop, and country. This song still gets country airplay today.
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Morgan Wallen referenced Gregg Allman's "Midnight Rider" in his "Everything I Love" and Chris Young used David Bowie's "Rebel Rebel" guitar riff in "Young Love and Saturday Nights." I've got a classic country station near me that plays CCR and Marshall Tucker Band titles as "crossover gold," but doing such in Market 217 is one thing; doing it in a major market is another.
 
Gregg. said:
I disagree. Much of the appeal of Classic Hits is, we will know all the songs the station is playing. We don't have to adapt to something we're unfamiliar with. If the song is too new, it isn't classic hits.

Some folks still debate, what if a classic artist comes out with a new release? Or a newer artist releases a song that sounds like a throw-back to an earlier era? Do you play that? The answer is no.

I love orange juice. But when I turn on the kitchen sink, I don't want orange juice coming out of the faucet when I'm expecting water. Add to that the fact that WOGL coexists with WBEB. If we want a mix of old and new, that's where we will go to find it. Audacy already owns a station doing that.

It's not like Classic Hits is a new concept and we have to test it to see its limits and what the audience expects. Its been around for years playing songs from several decades ago. The audience expects reliability.
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Two different animals. WBEB and AC in general is a variety format. 80s 90s 2K today. "Faithfully" obviously fits the "relax and unwind" branding. Listener expectations for the station needs to also be considered. You go to McDonalds and you know what to expect. OGL is not meeting listener expectations. With music post 2000...minus a few early 2000 exceptions...Drift Away on example. Hearing Gotye, Emenem, Adele etc on OGL is like going to Wendy's and finding stromboli on the menu. Something they actually tried in the 90s to disasterous results. They're getting unfocused and taking the eye off the ball.
 
Seltzer said:
Two different animals. WBEB and AC in general is a variety format. 80s 90s 2K today. "Faithfully" obviously fits the "relax and unwind" branding. Listener expectations for the station needs to also be considered. You go to McDonalds and you know what to expect. OGL is not meeting listener expectations. With music post 2000...minus a few early 2000 exceptions...Drift Away on example. Hearing Gotye, Emenem, Adele etc on OGL is like going to Wendy's and finding stromboli on the menu. Something they actually tried in the 90s to disasterous results. They're getting unfocused and taking the eye off the ball.
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Are you in WOGL's target demo, or anywhere close to it?
 
PTBoardOp93 said:
Sure, but you also have to move with the times. It has been 18 years since WOGL flipped to Classic Hits. Back then, the music library was centered around 1974 or 1975, with 10-12 years on either side of that center. In a nutshell, nothing before the Beatles and nothing after Michael Jackson.

If you simply advance that by 18 years, WOGL would be playing songs from about 1982 to 2005 with about half the songs newer than 1993.

So let's compare that idea to reality:
Between 10:00p ET and 11:20p this evening, WOGL played 2 songs newer than 1993. The exact years were:
2000; Dr. Dre feat. Eminem - Forgot about Dre
1995: Montell Jordan - This is How We Do It

There were 14 other songs: 2 from the early 90s, 3 from the late 70s and 9 from the 80s.

Earlier in this thread, Gregg, you said classic hits stations "play songs that are 25-35 years old". Even with this playlist update, WOGL remains quite a bit older than that. The median song in my sampling was 39 years old.

Age is, of course, not the most important factor in whether songs get played on the radio. But it is a factor, and it is easy to look up.
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I get Montell Jordan. #1 song and has that classic dance feel. Dr Dre and Emenem? No thanks.
 
atthestars said:
With the huge success of Shaboozey's "A Bar Song" it makes sense to dust off the song that inspired it and it was interpolated from.

Same with Gotye. Doechii's "Anxiety" heavily interpolates "Somebody that I used to know" so why not cash in on it being popular again?
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Makes sense? WOGL is not sharing audience with Q102. There is no need to nod to the present
 
Seltzer said:
I get Montell Jordan. #1 song and has that classic dance feel. Dr Dre and Emenem? No thanks.
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Despite the tone of my prior post, I agree with this. I personally do not like rap and playing that song would send me to the next preset.

What I don't know is how representative my tastes are of the typical 40 year old in Philly. I suspect not very representative.
 
Seltzer said:
Listener expectations for the station needs to also be considered. You go to McDonalds and you know what to expect.
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You bring up one of the hardest parts of music programming: defining the limits to our format and our listeners' expectations about it.

There are songs that will research well against the core listeners to a specific format, but which do not fit that format and will disappoint, discourage or drive away those core P1's. They like the song, but don't expect it on your station.

I've found in research that it is common for listeners to have a number of "favorite" stations. They listen "a lot" to each of two or three, and often listen more or less to each in consecutive days or weeks or months.

We often believe that listeners alternate between several very similar stations. It's more likely to find them alternating between dissimilar ones. When we do perceptual research, the common denominator is "mood"; listeners will tell you that they "feel more like listening" to AC at one time, country at another and Classic Hits at yet another (example I found over 35 years ago doing research for a country station in Florida).

So those people who like a variety of stations don't want to hear the songs from another format on the station they choose at any given moment because they are not in the mood for that other kind of music. An even older example was the quandary faced by Disco stations in the later 70's: how do you hold your listeners in morning drive when few are "in the mood" to hear "Push, Push in the Bush" at 6:20 AM?

Quantitative research such as music tests won't tell you about "fit". Deep factor/cluster analysis may give you a clue, but only a good PD or MD will have the feel for this, perhaps supplemented by formal or even casual "focus groups".

We are tempted to follow the internet examples that show people have wide interests in songs. But they always have, and the internet just makes it even easier to match your mood with the music you want to hear right now.
 
Seltzer said:
They're getting unfocused and taking the eye off the ball.
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You're ignoring the fact that the music itself changed. There was a time when music was made to fit formats and genres. That ended in the 80s. So if you're going to play music from the 80s, 90s, and Y2K, it is by definition unfocused. We've had this discussion many times. In the 90s, you had CHR stations playing alternative rock, country, and hip-hop. It was such a problem that it led to the end of music on MTV. So now, 30 years later, that's the music you're going to be hearing on classic hits stations. Those songs are part of gold libraries. Those songs are part of people's personal taste, regardless of what genre or format they are.

You can't use pre-90s definitions of what radio was or what formats were. They no longer apply.
 
I caught some of the “Throwback Weekend” on 98.1, and it sounds like a major shift musically, even if only for a special weekend. It only looks like one ‘80s song has been played in the past few hours. Chris Brown, 50 Cent, Will Smith, Usher all in the mix. It sounds like a completely different station. They appear to be eliminating overlap with MGK, Ben, or any rock-leaning stations. The pie may not have been big enough.

I don’t think the latest ratings covered the recent musical shift, so it should be interesting to see the May numbers.

This could also open up more ‘80s songs for B101 to play if they chose to not play some songs heard on 98.1 as part of their cluster strategy.
 
LenoxAve said:
I caught some of the “Throwback Weekend” on 98.1, and it sounds like a major shift musically, even if only for a special weekend. It only looks like one ‘80s song has been played in the past few hours. Chris Brown, 50 Cent, Will Smith, Usher all in the mix. It sounds like a completely different station. They appear to be eliminating overlap with MGK, Ben, or any rock-leaning stations. The pie may not have been big enough.

I don’t think the latest ratings covered the recent musical shift, so it should be interesting to see the May numbers.

This could also open up more ‘80s songs for B101 to play if they chose to not play some songs heard on 98.1 as part of their cluster strategy.
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I haven't listened but if what you describe is true....this isn't an evolution of a format. Not just overlapping with MGK, but jettisoning all their men. And when you own two extremely female formatted stations already, this makes no sense. Just because something was a hit in the 80s doesn't make it appropriate to play on B 101. Despite their financial woes, I understand Audacy still does music research. I would no longer Classify 98.1 as a Classic Hits station anymore. Perhaps Rhythmic Gold would be a better term. But you still have those Adele and Gotye songs. Yes the ratings next month should be interesting. And I would say to Ben FM...tighten up. You have just been handed a gift.
 
Seltzer said:
I haven't listened but if what you describe is true....this isn't an evolution of a format. Not just overlapping with MGK, but jettisoning all their men.
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Have you spoken with men in the demo about their music? It's not what you think.

Hip-Hop and Rap music are also highly popular among men. Artists like Jay-Z, Kendrick Lamar, and Drake often dominate men's playlists. This genre's appeal lies in its storytelling nature, empowering messages, and raw authenticity. It's a genre that gives voice to struggles, dreams, and ambitions, which many men can relate to.
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Re: ‘80s on B101, I agree just because it’s a hit doesn’t mean it fits. But they have been fairly light on ‘80s product for some time. I wasn’t sure if that was by design to avoid TOO much overlap since there is shared audience with 98.1. B101 sounds more like a bright AC, despite the positioning.

As for the “Throwback Weekend” list, you can see the recently played here: https://www.audacy.com/stations/big981.

Not sure if any other classic hits station does themed weekends similar to this one, but it doesn’t sound anything like classic hits stations in other markets, even considering variations market to market.
 
LenoxAve said:
Re: ‘80s on B101, I agree just because it’s a hit doesn’t mean it fits. But they have been fairly light on ‘80s product for some time. I wasn’t sure if that was by design to avoid TOO much overlap since there is shared audience with 98.1. B101 sounds more like a bright AC, despite the positioning.

As for the “Throwback Weekend” list, you can see the recently played here: https://www.audacy.com/stations/big981.

Not sure if any other classic hits station does themed weekends similar to this one, but it doesn’t sound anything like classic hits stations in other markets, even considering variations market to market.
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The playlist is somewhat reminiscent of KGGI Riverside from about twenty years ago with a few more recent titles thrown in.
 
I was listening to Big 98.1 today. Folks, this is clearly a prelude to a FORMAT CHANGE. No other Classic Hits station would air this playlist, even for a "Special Weekend."

I heard the morning guy Coop do a giveaway just after 9 a.m. He had played Salt N Pepa, followed by Bobby Brown. Then he put a caller on the air. "You have your choice of Lady Gaga tickets, Rod Stewart or Crowded House. Which do you want?" That was followed by Ace of Base, TLC and Beyonce. I had to laugh to myself. The concert ticket giveaway artists were all white. The DJ and caller were apparently white. But most of the music played was by African Americans. OK, the members of Ace of Base are Swedish but their music is danceable. Clearly the giveaways were chosen before recent station changes.

I'm guessing when the weekend is over, WOGL will go back to the mix of classic hits, some mainstream, some rhythmic, that it was playing until today. But where will the station be this summer? I doubt we will still call it "Classic Hits."
 


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