I used to listen to WCBS and with them gone WINS is the only all news station left. I am concerned that the broadcasting power of WINS is not as good.

[CentralFL]

Markets are defined by Nielsen (and previously by Arbitron) based on a combination of what "core market" stations are listened to and, secondarily, the commute patterns.

Most markets were defined well before FM became a major factor. And a revision that affects other markets requires subscribed stations in both markets to be consulted. In the case of Sussex, it is not part of another market but back when the NYC Metro Survey Area was defined, most AM stations did not have a good signal there because those located in the Meadowlands were directional away from NW New Jersey. And when the market was first defined, FM had very little listening anywhere.

If you look at the "usable" 60 dB/u signal of ESB FMs, it does not cover that country. And few of the AMs have a 10 mV(m signal out there, even in the easternmost part of the county.

Do TV the old analog TV signals have anything to do with radio market? The reason I ask is that, before cable TV, eastern Long Islanders relied on Connecticut stations for TV.

I no longer live on Long Island, so I'm not familiar with OTA TV viewing as you head out east on The Island.

 

[davideduardo]

Do TV the old analog TV signals have anything to do with radio market? The reason I ask is that, before cable TV, eastern Long Islanders relied on Connecticut stations for TV.

No, because TV markets often included areas without their own stations but which had, back in the day, Community Antenna Television systems (CATV), now known as "cable" to get far-away stations and deliver them via re-transmitters of low power or cable.

For the first 35 to 40 years, radio ratings were done by phone (or sometimes door to door) in central population areas. Often, that mean just the area where calls from "downtown" were toll-free... so far suburbs were not measured if the call was a toll call. Arbitron changed things, but was not the full standard until well into the 70's.

At that point, a radio market was basically the area where the central city or central zone's stations had the majority of audience.

I no longer live on Long Island, so I'm not familiar with OTA TV viewing as you head out east on The Island.

Arbitron made all of Long Island part of the NYC Metro Survey Area. Before that, it was just the boroughs and the nearest adjacent towns... which was why stations like WMCA did so well until survey areas changed.

 

[XCountry285]

No, because TV markets often included areas without their own stations but which had, back in the day, Community Antenna Television systems (CATV), now known as "cable" to get far-away stations and deliver them via re-transmitters of low power or cable.

For the first 35 to 40 years, radio ratings were done by phone (or sometimes door to door) in central population areas. Often, that mean just the area where calls from "downtown" were toll-free... so far suburbs were not measured if the call was a toll call. Arbitron changed things, but was not the full standard until well into the 70's.

At that point, a radio market was basically the area where the central city or central zone's stations had the majority of audience.

Arbitron made all of Long Island part of the NYC Metro Survey Area. Before that, it was just the boroughs and the nearest adjacent towns... which was why stations like WMCA did so well until survey areas changed.

That's a far distance thinking about Montauk, but then again Walpack, NJ is in the NYC tv market and that is just as far.

 

[Weiserguy]

Do TV the old analog TV signals have anything to do with radio market? The reason I ask is that, before cable TV, eastern Long Islanders relied on Connecticut stations for TV.

I no longer live on Long Island, so I'm not familiar with OTA TV viewing as you head out east on The Island.

Not sure what this is worth, but in my callow youth, (early '60s), for a couple of summers my parents shipped me out to summer camps on the East End of Long Island, fairly close to the Long Island Sound. One was a Boy Scout camp in Wading River, and the other was a 4-H camp closer to Riverhead. (I mention the specific areas in case you want to pull it up on Google Maps to look at it.) That far out, WMCA was a nonentity, WABC and WINS could be heard but not like in or near the city. The station we listened to (if we had a radio at all) was WAVZ, across the Sound in New Haven. (This is before FM, or AM/FM, pocket radios became cheap enough to risk taking with you to a summer camp, and I doubt anyone was programming rock 'n roll on FM yet anyway.) WAVZ blasted across the Sound and covered the eastern north shore like it was a local. There might have been another coastal Connecticut station that also put a city-grade signal into that area, but WAVZ is the station that sticks in my mind after all these years.

 

[davideduardo]

That's a far distance thinking about Montauk, but then again Walpack, NJ is in the NYC tv market and that is just as far.

Again, the TV markets can and did include locations far from the market stations’ over the air coverage because there were areas that hat no local stations where the origins of “cable” came about. Radio markets are determined by looking at where the majority of listening goes to with a secondary consideration for commuting patterns.

This is why the government MSAs are not in many cases the sane as radio MSAs. One is Metro Survey Area and the other is Metropolitan Statistical Area, and they are based on slightly different criteria.

 

[K.M. Richards]

Again, the TV markets can and did include locations far from the market stations’ over the air coverage because there were areas that hat no local stations where the origins of “cable” came about. Radio markets are determined by looking at where the majority of listening goes to with a secondary consideration for commuting patterns.

Case in point: Bishop, in Central California, a very short distance from the Nevada border and midway between Las Vegas and Carson City (for points of reference). It is ENE of Fresno but terrain shielded from that market's television stations by the Sierra Nevada Mountains.

It is part of the Los Angeles Nielsen DMA for television, over 200 miles away. (Purple boundaries on this map.)

https://www.worldradiohistory.com/Archive-Arbitron/Market-Maps/Nielsen-Radio-Market-Mape-Fall-2023.pdf

 

[CentralFL]

Not sure what this is worth, but in my callow youth, (early '60s), for a couple of summers my parents shipped me out to summer camps on the East End of Long Island, fairly close to the Long Island Sound. One was a Boy Scout camp in Wading River, and the other was a 4-H camp closer to Riverhead. (I mention the specific areas in case you want to pull it up on Google Maps to look at it.) That far out, WMCA was a nonentity, WABC and WINS could be heard but not like in or near the city. The station we listened to (if we had a radio at all) was WAVZ, across the Sound in New Haven. (This is before FM, or AM/FM, pocket radios became cheap enough to risk taking with you to a summer camp, and I doubt anyone was programming rock 'n roll on FM yet anyway.) WAVZ blasted across the Sound and covered the eastern north shore like it was a local. There might have been another coastal Connecticut station that also put a city-grade signal into that area, but WAVZ is the station that sticks in my mind after all these years.

Likely the other Conn. stations which blasted across the sound were WICC 600 from Bridgeport and WELI 960 from New Haven. WICC lasted longer as a music-intensive station. In fact, they still do run some music. Side note, I always thought the WELI call letters sounded so similar to WBLI 106.1 which has been Long Island's CHR for many decades, but not as far back as the early 60s.

 

[K.M. Richards]

Likely the other Conn. stations which blasted across the sound were WICC 600 from Bridgeport and WELI 960 from New Haven. WICC lasted longer as a music-intensive station. In fact, they still do run some music. Side note, I always thought the WELI call letters sounded so similar to WBLI 106.1 which has been Long Island's CHR for many decades, but not as far back as the early 60s.

Sidebar: WELI is a major part of television history as well. They were the original applicants for a UHF station which did not finally get on the air until 41 years, 9 months, and 11 days after the CP's issuance.

History of UHF Television

uhfhistory.com

 

[davideduardo]

Side note, I always thought the WELI call letters sounded so similar to WBLI 106.1 which has been Long Island's CHR for many decades, but not as far back as the early 60s.

Remember, "ELI" is the chant of Yale University. So it has a very special meaning in that part of CT.

Yale Fight Songs | Yale Bands

bands.yalecollege.yale.edu

 

[CentralFL]

Didn't know that....thanks.

 

[EasyBakeOven]

880 sounds richer and 660 sounds more hollow

The hollow sound on 660 probably has something to do with the audio signal using PPM encoding for the Neilson ratings. 880 does not subscribe to the ratings service, so there's no audible encoding artifacts.

 

[davideduardo]

The hollow sound on 660 probably has something to do with the audio signal using PPM encoding for the Neilson ratings. 880 does not subscribe to the ratings service, so there's no audible encoding artifacts.

880 does not subscribe to the ratings themselves, but they encode. Almost all non-subscribers do encode.

PPM encoding does not affect the frequency response of a station. If properly done, without the Telos device, it is transparent. Even if you use the Voltair, when set rationally it does not affect audio the way you describe.

Non-subscribed stations encode because they understand that the addition of even small audiences of many secondary stations increases the Persons Using Radio figure, showing advertisers that radio has great reach... still!

 

[ILOVERADIO]

I am not so young that I don't remember Hopalong Cassidy. Channel 5 used to run his movies on Saturday mornings when I was a kid.

But the joke based on his name just ain't a-workin'.

So I guess you reject my idea of a Hopalong Weekend on the 80s channel for listeners over 80.

 

[K.M. Richards]

So I guess you reject my idea of a Hopalong Weekend on the 80s channel for listeners over 80.

Doing what? Airing the audio portion of his movies?

 

[radiofan2023]

Doing what? Airing the audio portion of his movies?

Or songs for pogoing