SESAC and GMR ask for more money

[ZebraRadio]

Well, this sucks. SESAC and GMR are asking noncom stations not affiliated with NPR to pay a a 2.6% increase in royalties for 2025. According to the article: "The noncommercial rate is only applicable to stations that are tied to a college or educational institution that is not affiliated with National Public Radio." I'm assuming a lot of LPFM stations would fit that category.

Noncommercial Stations Will Pay More To SESAC And GMR In 2025.

The cost of streaming will go up in 2025, but thanks to a lower rate of inflation, the increases will not be as large as in the past few years.

www.insideradio.com

 

[Michi]

Well, this sucks. SESAC and GMR are asking noncom stations not affiliated with NPR to pay a a 2.6% increase in royalties for 2025. According to the article: "The noncommercial rate is only applicable to stations that are tied to a college or educational institution that is not affiliated with National Public Radio." I'm assuming a lot of LPFM stations would fit that category.

Noncommercial Stations Will Pay More To SESAC And GMR In 2025.

The cost of streaming will go up in 2025, but thanks to a lower rate of inflation, the increases will not be as large as in the past few years.

www.insideradio.com

Actually very few do. These would be LPFM stations that are licensed to academic schools that teach K-12 or college only. That is a very small minority of LPFM stations. For most LPFMs, they would fall under 37 CFR §381.6.

 

[Radio Bob]

Is that $199 per year?

 

[secondchoice]

Back in the day, (pre internet) I worked for a commercial owner that would not pay the Sesac fees. The station was AC so there were very few songs that were affected. We would get letters that we would be fined if we played any of their songs. We told them that every record that was played was checked not to be SESAC. They said some songs had changed to Sesac from other services. We asked them for a list or songs that had changed and they never replied. When I flipped the station to Country we did pay Sesac. I was surprised how few SESAC songs when we were logging for BMI.

I am all for song writers getting their share but how much of the money they collect actually goes to the writers?

With PC's playing the music, could a non profit "boycott" SESAC by checking what songs are in system? I have been told that Gospel has a lot of SESAC so it might not work for "R.D.P."

 

[TheBigA]

I am all for song writers getting their share but how much of the money they collect actually goes to the writers?

It's complicated. Because it depends on how the song was written. Does the writer own the publishing or is it a co-pub? The writers know how much money the PRO takes in, and how much they get. It's all audited and the writers see the numbers. SESAC has become more aggressive in attracting writers or getting writers to move from other PROs. A song might have been represented by BMI, and is now handled by SESAC or GMR. So it's a lot of work, and that's why most radio stations let RMLC handle it.

 

[ZebraRadio]

Actually very few do. These would be LPFM stations that are licensed to academic schools that teach K-12 or college only. That is a very small minority of LPFM stations. For most LPFMs, they would fall under 37 CFR §381.6.

The term "educational institution" would seem to take in a lot of ground, including private institutions. Many LPFMs are 501(c)3 and classified by the IRS as educational entities. Most of these are not affiliated with NPR.

 

[Michi]

The term "educational institution" would seem to take in a lot of ground, including private institutions. Many LPFMs are 501(c)3 and classified by the IRS as educational entities. Most of these are not affiliated with NPR.

In this case, 37 CFR §381.5(a) defines the qualifications for the educational institution: "For purposes of this section, accreditation of institutions providing post-secondary education shall be determined by a regional or national accrediting agency recognized by the Council for Higher Education Accreditation or the United States Department of Education; and accreditation of institutions providing elementary or secondary education shall be as recognized by the applicable state licensing authority."

 

[K.M. Richards]

Back in the day, (pre internet) I worked for a commercial owner that would not pay the Sesac fees. The station was AC so there were very few songs that were affected. We would get letters that we would be fined if we played any of their songs. We told them that every record that was played was checked not to be SESAC. They said some songs had changed to Sesac from other services.

Here's a real-world example which is impacting a lot of (commercial*) stations right now.

The song "Red Red Wine" was written by the talented singer/songwriter Neil Diamond in 1967, released as a 45 the following year:

Note the publisher, Tallyrand Music, which was formed by Neil to cover his compositions.

Fast forward to 1983, when UB40 originally released their cover version:

Still Tallyrand Music but ... oops, Neil switched affiliations from BMI to ASCAP!

This version was not a major hit for UB40, but the remixed re-release in 1989 was:

Still Tallyrand, still ASCAP ... but by the time the UB40 greatest hits album came out in 2000, if you look at the "liner notes" booklet it says "Published by Tallyrand Music, Inc. (SESAC)".

Is SESAC going to accept "but our copy says 'ASCAP'" as an excuse? Not bloody likely.

(*-apologies to my friend Michi for using this example in a LPFM thread, but the implications are the same)

 

[K.M. Richards]

I just realized -- too late to edit -- that the images of the two UB40 singles were reversed; the red label one is from the original release and the black label one was the re-release. (And yes, I know the copyright date shows as 1983 on both, since that was based on the original release date.)

 

[secondchoice]

Here's a real-world example which is impacting a lot of (commercial*) stations right now.

The song "Red Red Wine" was written by the talented singer/songwriter Neil Diamond in 1967, released as a 45 the following year:

Note the publisher, Tallyrand Music, which was formed by Neil to cover his compositions.

Fast forward to 1983, when UB40 originally released their cover version:

Still Tallyrand Music but ... oops, Neil switched affiliations from BMI to ASCAP!

This version was not a major hit for UB40, but the remixed re-release in 1989 was:

Still Tallyrand, still ASCAP ... but by the time the UB40 greatest hits album came out in 2000, if you look at the "liner notes" booklet it says "Published by Tallyrand Music, Inc. (SESAC)".

Is SESAC going to accept "but our copy says 'ASCAP'" as an excuse? Not bloody likely.

(*-apologies to my friend Michi for using this example in a LPFM thread, but the implications are the same)

SESAC, BMI, ASAP, and who ever else should have a "site" where they list what songs they have. I am pretty sure they have a computer program that "scans" the playlists of station's music logs to "find" how many spins a song gets for the writers royalty checks, so there is a "master list / file" somewhere on each service's system.

There is a legal principle (I can't remember the exact wording) that unless it is "posted" no trespassing and fenced you can walk thru a field.

Ask you Lawyer before doing this: If I didn't want to pay SESAC, I would send them a registered letter with an email copy, asking them what songs they will fine me for playing. I would then purge my system of those songs.

If they don't answer my registered letter, I would purge the songs that the original recording had SESAC and call it a day. If SESAC tried to "fine" me, any Judge or Jury would see that the station made an attempt to follow the law but SESAC was guilty of entrapment.

 

[TheBigA]

SESAC, BMI, ASAP, and who ever else should have a "site" where they list what songs they have. I am pretty sure they have a computer program that "scans" the playlists of station's music logs to "find" how many spins a song gets for the writers royalty checks, so there is a "master list / file" somewhere on each service's system.

They do.

They also know the history of each song and know when licensing transferred from one PRO to another. The PROs compete against each other, and try to steal writers. BMI is changing from a non-profit to a for-profit like SESAC, and I'm sure there are games taking place.

ASCAP requires smaller stations to turn in full song lists of all the music they play for evaluation. Even if the station is part of the RMLC.

 

[K.M. Richards]

SESAC, BMI, ASAP, and who ever else should have a "site" where they list what songs they have. I am pretty sure they have a computer program that "scans" the playlists of station's music logs to "find" how many spins a song gets for the writers royalty checks, so there is a "master list / file" somewhere on each service's system.

More likely they monitor the streams and use song identification software. I know that is how Mediabase compiles the aircheck monitors I subscribe to with them.

Fighting SESAC at this point is chasing the horse who left the barn but forgetting to close the door so more horses don't leave as well. When they first started, their licensing repertoire was entirely Country and Inspirational. Then someone there looked at the royalties ASCAP and BMI were taking in and started approaching singer-songwriters with their own publishing companies to jump ship. (It is very obvious from my previous example that Neil Diamond was open to a better offer, since he had already moved Tallyrand once before.)

And GMR was originally formed by Irving Azoff in 2013 as an outgrowth of his own Azoff MSG Entertainment and quickly attracted a lot of "superstar" power because of his reputation in the music industry. Among the well-known artists on its roster are Billy Idol, Bob Seger, Boz Scaggs, Bruce Springsteen, Bryan Adams, Glenn Frey, Jon Bon Jovi, Pete Townshend, Stephen Stills, and Steve Miller ... plus the estates of George Harrison, George Michael, Ira Gershwin, and Prince, and current artists like Bad Bunny, Billie Eilish, Bruno Mars, Gwen Stefani, Harry Styles, Lizzo, Nicki Minaj, and Shawn Mendes. Azoff now only has a minority stake in GMR; a private equity firm acquired about 90% of the ownership right before Christmas last year.

An interesting sidebar: Industry reports are that SESAC has, in recent years, trimmed the number of publishing entities it represents over the past five years and is now down to about 15,000 (from a hugh of around 35,000).

In any event, any station that doesn't have a blanket license with all four might as well surrender now.

 

[secondchoice]

Back in the day (pre hard drive music) we had weeks we "log BMI" a major pain at smaller stations that had "physical" rotations of carts , records or the little 3 by 5 carts. After PCs took over doing the music logs it was easier. If you were lucky enough to have a "music director" function it was easy for everyone except he had to figure out how to download the information in a format BMI would take.

 

[TheBigA]

More likely they monitor the streams and use song identification software.

If a station streams, it has to report all of its music with all metadata (publisher, PRO, etc) to SoundExchange. So one way or another, they all know who played what. There are no secrets. Nobody trusts anyone. As you say, if your station gets sued, the only debate is over how much.

 

[kevtronics]

GMR = Give Me Royalties?

 

[TheBigA]

GMR = Give Me Royalties?

Gimme MORE royalties. They claim they get a higher rate for their writers.

 

[davideduardo]

SESAC, BMI, ASAP, and who ever else should have a "site" where they list what songs they have. I am pretty sure they have a computer program that "scans" the playlists of station's music logs to "find" how many spins a song gets for the writers royalty checks, so there is a "master list / file" somewhere on each service's system.

The majority of music rights organizations do OTA monitoring for broadcast radio to determine airplay. The system is based on averaging of factors such as number of plays and sizes of audience.

I am horribly oversimplifying to get to the point...

Some say that songs played only at a couple of little stations "don't count" and don't get the composers and authors and publishers their fees. But a couple of plays out of tens of thousands won't even earn a couple of those pennies (that are being discontinued).

We used to submit music logs periodically... not every week or month. They tabulated and averaged airplay over many many stations to calculate how much to pay the artists. Now, for AM and FM radio, it is done electronically by monitoring.

Ask you Lawyer before doing this: If I didn't want to pay SESAC, I would send them a registered letter with an email copy, asking them what songs they will fine me for playing. I would then purge my system of those songs.

Consider how often you'd have to do that, and how much it would cost them to update you. Composers change licensing organizations. Many songs are done by more than one person, so if just one of them changes the affiliation, you are suddenly infringing.

If they don't answer my registered letter, I would purge the songs that the original recording had SESAC and call it a day. If SESAC tried to "fine" me, any Judge or Jury would see that the station made an attempt to follow the law but SESAC was guilty of entrapment.

Not all recordings come with that data. Many are delivered electronically without full information. And, just like it is your job to know the speed limits where you drive, it is your responsibility to comply with the use of music you play.

 

[davideduardo]

An interesting sidebar: Industry reports are that SESAC has, in recent years, trimmed the number of publishing entities it represents over the past five years and is now down to about 15,000 (from a hugh of around 35,000).

Remember, SESAC means Society of European Authors and Composers. It was set up to represent artists not in the US that ASCAP and BMI did not cover. So there is an originally different focus.

Sidebar:

ASCAP member magazine: ASCAP "Playback" & "Today" & "In Action"

BMI member magazine BMI MUSIC WORLD Magazine for Composers and Authors of Broadcast Music, Inc.

 

[K.M. Richards]

Back in the day (pre hard drive music) we had weeks we "log BMI" a major pain at smaller stations that had "physical" rotations of carts , records or the little 3 by 5 carts. After PCs took over doing the music logs it was easier. If you were lucky enough to have a "music director" function it was easy for everyone except he had to figure out how to download the information in a format BMI would take.

I remember an exception for automated stations running syndicated formats. BMI would accept photocopies of all the reel cue sheets, annotated with the number of times each reel played during the report period. So they must have had someone (or a department of someones) who determined the songwriting credit based on who performed any specific song.

As I suggested earlier, I suspect a lot of the process is now automated stream monitoring with song recognition software to identify song and performer, and a similar process to the above then occurs. There's probably some kind of simplified reporting process for stations running satellite- or Internet-delivered syndicated formats and programs. I'm not sure what they do if a music-based station doesn't stream, though.

 

[secondchoice]

If iHeart, Audacy, and Cumulus quit playing GMR tracks for a year the artists would miss the radio money and exposure and find another agency. It wouldn't affect their ratings especially after the next round of mergers when there will be only 2 national radio operators. After they pick off GMR SESAC would be next.

I know it will not happen but BMI and ASCAP are audited by the writer's accountants so there is no "magic" business model that will get the writers more radio money which is drying up anyways.