Saving AM Radio

[exbloguero]

Sorry my Spanish is very limited. This post could give us a view from someone who most likely listens to this market. Maybe someone could give us a "Readrs Digest" translation.

I'm sorry.

In Nogales, Sonora, only XENY-AM 760 (5 kW) is operating during the day, while XECG-AM 1240 (AM) and XEHN-AM 1130 (both 1 kW) are operating with only the carrier on, without audio, and at low power "to comply" because those frequencies have their FM channel after the migration.

In Agua Prieta, XESOS-AM 730 (5 kW) is on the air at full power, following a fine from the IFT for operating only on FM for several years.

In Hermosillo and the rest of the state, 1 kW power plants continue to operate: XEHEEP 650, XEXN-AM 1010 Ures, XEETCH-AM 700, XEGL-AM 1270 Navojoa (the latter is silent because it lost the land and they are installing from a new location) XEEB-AM 760 Obregón (only operates once a month) XEFX-AM 630 Guaymas, same situation, occasional operation.

 

[exbloguero]

All through Latin America there are local AMs with 20 kHz separation. In the 60's I owned both 570 and 590 in Quito, Ecuador, and there were stations on 550 and 610 as well... the same up the dial with the others either 20 kHz or 30 kHz apart:

Exactly, I'm surprised by how the CDMX assignments are with a separation of 10 kHz such as frequencies 660, 690, 710 and 730, all of them above 50 kW.

 

[secondchoice]

Is the background electrical noise an issue there, like it has become in the USA?

 

[semoochie]

I believe everyone has a translator on their computer. All you have to do is right click. Here's what I got:
In Nogales, Sonora, only XENY-AM 760 (5 kW) is operating during the day, while XECG-AM 1240 (AM) and XEHN-AM 1130 (both 1 kW) are operating only with the carrier on, no audio and at low power "to comply" because those frequencies have their FM channel after migration.

In Agua Prieta, XESOS-AM 730 (5 kW) is on the air at full power, after a fine from the IFT for operating only on FM for several years.

In Hermosillo and the rest of the state, 1 kW plants continue to operate, XEHEEP 650, XEXN-AM 1010 Ures, XEETCH-AM 700, XEGL-AM 1270 Navojoa (the latter is silent, because it lost the land and they are installing from a new location) XEEB-AM 760 Obregón (only operates once a month) XEFX-AM 630 Guaymas, same situation, occasional operation.

 

[secondchoice]

I use Duck Duck Go on my phone. I hesitate to use Google translate because I have had servers use it trying to take my order and get it wrong every time. I am about 200 miles from my PC right now but I will try it next time I am at the house.

BTW I will be running somekind of Linux after Microsoft stops supporting my computer software.

 

[K.M. Richards]

BTW I will be running somekind of Linux after Microsoft stops supporting my computer software.

There are workarounds, especially if you take precautions against malware and the like.

Both my computer and the ones in Albuquerque are running a 64-bit version of Windows 7, with no ill side effects. It's just a matter of configuring everything to work.

And it's not so much Microsoft not supporting your software as it is the software companies kowtowing to MS and discontinuing their support and compatibility for versions of Windows that MS has declared "obsolete". There has been some pushback, though: Mozilla recently issued an updated version of Firefox for 64-bit systems which ignores a MS-mandated "end of life" root certificate. So there may be hope for us all yet.

 

[davideduardo]

Exactly, I'm surprised by how the CDMX assignments are with a separation of 10 kHz such as frequencies 660, 690, 710 and 730, all of them above 50 kW.

What was interesting was when GRC increased XEN to 50 kw (reported in some places to be 100 kw days) and the PRISA XEX at 730 was either 50 kw or 100 kw. The little guy on 710 was 1 kw. Yet on any radio I used, in any part of the Day Effay I wanted to go that little station was perfectly tunable.

Obviously, by the time one was outside the central zone of the metro, like out at Naucalpan, 710 was lost due to the low power not getting out well over the volcanic hills.

(Don't tell anyone from Sonora or Baja, but I am a "chilango adoptivo".)

 

[ted chittenden]

Actually, there was a lot of FM in Mexico even in the 60's but most were studio transmitter links. As FM developed commercially, stations with those links found themselves with brand new full radio stations just by buying a higher power transmitter and relocating the antenna to a higher location.

On my family's second trip to Glamis Sand Dunes in the Imperial Valley in 1972, I heard the first FM station(that I know of) licensed to Mexicali. I don't know what the callsign was then (today it's XHVG), but I do know that the format was Spanish talk with English AC music. I didn't pick up another FM station from Mexicali until the Thanksgiving 1976 trip when the station at 101.9 went on the air and the following year, the last time the family went to Glamis, I noted 104.1 which was, if memory serves, being run by one of the colleges in Mexicali. When I passed through en route to San Diego in the late summer of 1981, I didn't notice any changes on the Mexicali side; in fact, it wasn't until a trip that a sighted friend and I took to San Diego in the early 1990s that I noticed the flurry of new stations operating from Mexicali on the FM band.

 

[davideduardo]

On my family's second trip to Glamis Sand Dunes in the Imperial Valley in 1972, I heard the first FM station(that I know of) licensed to Mexicali. I don't know what the callsign was then (today it's XHVG), but I do know that the format was Spanish talk with English AC music. I didn't pick up another FM station from Mexicali until the Thanksgiving 1976 trip when the station at 101.9 went on the air and the following year, the last time the family went to Glamis, I noted 104.1 which was, if memory serves, being run by one of the colleges in Mexicali. When I passed through en route to San Diego in the late summer of 1981, I didn't notice any changes on the Mexicali side; in fact, it wasn't until a trip that a sighted friend and I took to San Diego in the early 1990s that I noticed the flurry of new stations operating from Mexicali on the FM band.

Remember that early FMs in nearly every nation where radio was not mostly run by the government with taxpayer-paid huge budgets, FMs nearly always started with an antenna on the roof of the station building. As the band... and each station... developed, stations increased power and moved to better sites.

My first commercial FM was in the valley floor of a big city. It was 250 watts at about 30 meters. After about a year, when we suddenly found ourselves sold out, I moved to a hilltop about 300 meters over the market, adding lots of more suburban areas. Then, when the FM became my most profitable operation, we went up on a mountainside, about 1000 meters above the city.

My point is that anyone outside the more central parts of the city could not hear us initially. And that was typical of lots of early FMs

 

[yeoldeschool]

Lon Sideman's analysis of the congressional AM radio mandate bill's likely passage:

 

[secondchoice]

Is this the Trump party (former GOP) messing with Musk? I don't think his cars or any all electric cars would be good candidates for AM radio reception.

 

[cc333]

Is this the Trump party (former GOP) messing with Musk?

Given their spectacularly acrimonious fallout a few weeks ago, anything's possible.

I don't think his cars or any all electric cars would be good candidates for AM radio reception.

Teslas, probably not; save for maybe the earliest models, I don't think any models had AM.

Indeed, Musk seems to want to rid his cars of all forms of radio, not just AM; with a recent update (I think I read about it on this site), the FM and SirriusXM radios were allegedly disabled, which if true would render the newest Teslas (and any older ones with that update) effectively radioless (unless you count WiFi, Bluetooth and 4G/5G as "radio", which technically they are). What bothers me is that, if one wanted to, a suscription streaming service could then be implemented as the only "radio" option if you want to listen to something.

That said, there are plenty of non-Tesla all electric cars out there today with AM radios, and as far as I know, their reception is about as good as in gas cars.

c

 

[K.M. Richards]

That said, there are plenty of non-Tesla all electric cars out there today with AM radios, and as far as I know, their reception is about as good as in gas cars.

I said this "somewhere" (not necessarily here) ... because my need to drive is limited, I have a 2015 smart which is a pure EV. It has the original factory-installed AM/FM/USB audio system, and I have never had a problem with AM reception; my problem is more one of there not being many AM stations I care about being able to listen to.

In my opinion, if Daimler could achieve static-free AM reception in their EVs a decade ago, there is no reason why today's manufacturers cannot do likewise.

 

[cc333]

In my opinion, if Daimler could achieve static-free AM reception in their EVs a decade ago, there is no reason why today's manufacturers cannot do likewise.

I agree, but it comes down to the fact that manufacturers don't want to spend 2¢ per vehicle on whatever shielding is needed for good AM reception.

That said, I can see their point. Given how many vehicles are made every year, that 2¢ part ends up costing tens of millions of dollars.

However: for example, when we bought our Pontiac Vibe new in 2006, the sticker price for the model we bought was about $17,000, less taxes, fees and registration, with standard power windows and A/C. The average cost of a modern equivalent gas version of that car seems to be somewhere between $30,000 to $40,000, and the equivalent EV version adds basically between $5k-$15k to that, depending on options and such.

So, assuming a healthy profit margin, even they sell fewer new cars overall, they're probably making more per vehicle sold than before, so they can afford to keep AM in their EVs if they want to. And sales of gas cars, for however long that lasts, will probably help subsidize some of that extra 2¢/vehicle.

c

 

[K.M. Richards]

I agree, but it comes down to the fact that manufacturers don't want to spend 2¢ per vehicle on whatever shielding is needed for good AM reception.

That said, I can see their point. Given how many vehicles are made every year, that 2¢ part ends up costing tens of millions of dollars.

You do realize that at two cents per vehicle, it would require 50,000,000 vehicles just to get to one million dollars?

 

[cc333]

You do realize that at two cents per vehicle, it would require 50,000,000 vehicles just to get to one million dollars?

Ah, of course!

I guess I overestimated the number of zeros a bit hehe, but my underlying point is still valid: car makers can afford to keep AM radios in their cars. It costs them practically nothing.

c

 

[CTListener]

Ah, of course!

I guess I overestimated the number of zeros a bit hehe, but my underlying point is still valid: car makers can afford to keep AM radios in their cars. It costs them practically nothing.

c

But if potential customers aren't telling them that no AM in that car they're looking at is a deal breaker and that they're going to buy another make of car from another dealer, then what's the point of the automakers keeping AM in the cars and -- in the case of Tesla and other EV makers -- investing in shielding to eliminate electrical interference? Answer: There's no point; even if it only costs them 100 grand every model year, that's 100 grand they could have kept for themselves.

 

[sasha23]

Exactly, I'm surprised by how the CDMX assignments are with a separation of 10 kHz such as frequencies 660, 690, 710 and 730, a̲l̲l̲ ̲o̲f̲ ̲t̲h̲e̲m̲ ̲a̲b̲o̲v̲e̲ ̲5̲0̲ ̲k̲W̲

710 is not 50kW, never has been, in fact, I believe for many years, it may have been around 1kW

fccdata.org states: day/night
660 50/5 kW
690 100/5 kW
710 10/1kW
730 60 kW full-time

I haven't heard 660, 690 or 730 for many years here in the Chicago area, 710 would be nearly impossible except for possibly auroral reception conditions...

 

[xmtrland]

710 is 50Kw.There is one in Seattle, KIRO AM, 50Kw day/night. Or are talking about south o the boarder, Mexico?

 

[K.M. Richards]

710 is not 50kW, never has been, in fact, I believe for many years, it may have been around 1kW

fccdata.org states: day/night
660 50/5 kW
690 100/5 kW
710 10/1kW
730 60 kW full-time

It would help to know what the call letters are. Where I am sitting, 710 is KSPN, 690 is XEWW, the closest 730 is in Mexicali, and the closest 660 is in Bakersfield.

710 is 50Kw.There is one in Seattle, KIRO AM, 50Kw day/night. Or are talking about south o the boarder, Mexico?

I think maybe the OP was referring to the Chicago metro area ...

I haven't heard 660, 690 or 730 for many years here in the Chicago area, 710 would be nearly impossible except for possibly auroral reception conditions...