Washington When will Tri Cities or Yakima have another book?

[PRyanR]

It's been years since TC or Yakima have had a book, either via Arbitron/Nielsen or Eastlan. Neither market is listed as an Eastlan subscriber. Anybody have info?

 

[crainbebo]

I think KXDD is #1 in Yakima, but don't get me wrong. I'd like to know where Cherry FM stands, as well as Positive Life on 91.1 vs. K-LOVE on 103.1.

 

[CTListener]

Yakima would have to be the nation's largest unrated market by far if listening there isn't measured by Nielsen or Eastlan, wouldn't it?

 

[PTBoardOp93]

It's been years since TC or Yakima have had a book, either via Arbitron/Nielsen or Eastlan. Neither market is listed as an Eastlan subscriber. Anybody have info?

Probably never. Townsquare doesn't buy the ratings in several of its small markets. Stevens Media does buy ratings in some markets, but probably can't justify essentially paying full freight for ratings on its own.

Yakima would have to be the nation's largest unrated market by far if listening there isn't measured by Nielsen or Eastlan, wouldn't it?

Yakima was market rank 199 when Nielsen discontinued it. It looks like the TriCities of Washington are larger (formerly Nielsen Audio Rank 177), and they also don't have Eastlan ratings presently.

 

[CTListener]

So how do stations in either market set their advertising rates, and how do the advertisers know what they're getting for their money? I guess the assumption would be that a country station is No. 1 in a market like Yakima, but who knows for sure if it's still as dominant as it was when Nielsen was keeping track of listening there?

 

[dxsphere]

It looks like the TriCities of Washington are larger (formerly Nielsen Audio Rank 177), and they also don't have Eastlan ratings presently.

Tri-Cities is larger than Yakima by quite a bit, and it's also a bigger market.

 

[K.M. Richards]

So how do stations in either market set their advertising rates, and how do the advertisers know what they're getting for their money?

Ratings are more important to agencies than to local ad buys. If a market has no chance of any national business, there's no point to paying for ratings.

Most locally-owned business buy ads on stations that they like personally. The logic is along the lines of "if I like KZZZ, then other people who listen to KZZZ would be good customers for my business."

 

[PTBoardOp93]

So how do stations in either market set their advertising rates, and how do the advertisers know what they're getting for their money? I guess the assumption would be that a country station is No. 1 in a market like Yakima, but who knows for sure if it's still as dominant as it was when Nielsen was keeping track of listening there?

Ratings don't really provide that data, particularly in the smaller markets (most markets outside the top 100) which are surveyed only twice a year.

I'm going to pick on Green Bay, market #178, because their book has several subscribers. The classic country outlet went 6.8-3.2-4.6 in the last 3 books. Falling from 4th to 10th place in one book. If you bought advertising in summer 2024 based on that 6.8 number, do you think you're getting a refund because the ratings plunged 53%? Not in this lifetime!

In larger markets, averaging is often employed to reduce wobble like that. But I've never heard of anybody doing that in these twice-per-year markets because the ratings data from 18 months ago is just too old.

 

[CTListener]

Ratings don't really provide that data, particularly in the smaller markets (most markets outside the top 100) which are surveyed only twice a year.

I'm going to pick on Green Bay, market #178, because their book has several subscribers. The classic country outlet went 6.8-3.2-4.6 in the last 3 books. Falling from 4th to 10th place in one book. If you bought advertising in summer 2024 based on that 6.8 number, do you think you're getting a refund because the ratings plunged 53%? Not in this lifetime!

In larger markets, averaging is often employed to reduce wobble like that. But I've never heard of anybody doing that in these twice-per-year markets because the ratings data from 18 months ago is just too old.

I'm in Market 216 (Lebanon/Hanover/White River Jct., NH/VT) and I see wobbles like that here, too. WCNL, our classic country station has gone 2.9-1.5-3.5, Even our perennial market leaders, classic rock WHDQ and NPR news/talk WVPR, have bounced around some, from 6.5 to 12.0 for the former, from 5.6 to 8.1 for the latter. The only station that doesn't wobble too much is our right-wing talker, WNTK, which scrapes along between 1.4 and 2.2 consistently.

Do the ubiquitous O'Reilly and McDonald's ads I hear on most of the commercial stations here count as "national" buys, handled by agencies, or do they get to stations here in the sticks some other way?

 

[Huff]

Tri-Cities was last measured in Spring 2020 by Nielsen. It was measured once by Eastlan in Fall 2021, but no one else has surveyed the market since.
Nielsen also pulled out of Yakima after Spring 2020. Eastlan never moved in there at all. Obviously the markets seem to be getting along just fine without any surveys.

The largest market that has been dropped by Nielsen is Greenville, NC, which was Market #99 (and has been picked up by Eastlan.)

 

[The New Chico]

Ratings are more important to agencies than to local ad buys. If a market has no chance of any national business, there's no point to paying for ratings.

Most locally-owned business buy ads on stations that they like personally. The logic is along the lines of "if I like KZZZ, then other people who listen to KZZZ would be good customers for my business."

I suspect you are correct. I kind of wish you weren't. I'd like to think local ad buyers bought with their brains more than their hearts, but, again, suspect you are correct.

 

[K.M. Richards]

I suspect you are correct. I kind of wish you weren't. I'd like to think local ad buyers bought with their brains more than their hearts, but, again, suspect you are correct.

PLEASE, don't wish that. That mindset of local business owners is keeping stations outside the major markets going!

 

[radiofan86]

Do the ubiquitous O'Reilly and McDonald's ads I hear on most of the commercial stations here count as "national" buys, handled by agencies, or do they get to stations here in the sticks some other way?

More than likely, barter spots. A service is provided to the radio station, such as imaging, jingles, could be a network syndicated show, and it is paid for by offering up some commercial inventory on the station, and those buys are handled by Premiere, Westwood One, Compass Media, and others.
Not saying for sure that is the case here, it's possible some of those are agency buys. But more than likely, barter spots.

 

[davideduardo]

More than likely, barter spots. A service is provided to the radio station, such as imaging, jingles, could be a network syndicated show, and it is paid for by offering up some commercial inventory on the station, and those buys are handled by Premiere, Westwood One, Compass Media, and others.
Not saying for sure that is the case here, it's possible some of those are agency buys. But more than likely, barter spots.

Even more likely is that those are "network" spots that have to be run in exchange for providing programming. The network sells "national" spots and puts them in their quota of minutes in each hour of network programming. That is how networks have worked since the 1930's.

Same goes for syndicated shows. Using the model built by American Top 40, stations run the show along with spots included in it as payment for the content.

 

[radiofan86]

Even more likely is that those are "network" spots that have to be run in exchange for providing programming. The network sells "national" spots and puts them in their quota of minutes in each hour of network programming. That is how networks have worked since the 1930's.

Same goes for syndicated shows. Using the model built by American Top 40, stations run the show along with spots included in it as payment for the content.

Yep, that's what I meant as well.

 

[CTListener]

Even more likely is that those are "network" spots that have to be run in exchange for providing programming. The network sells "national" spots and puts them in their quota of minutes in each hour of network programming. That is how networks have worked since the 1930's.

Same goes for syndicated shows. Using the model built by American Top 40, stations run the show along with spots included in it as payment for the content.

I know the difference between local and network programming, thank you. Those ads are being run on music stations during locally hosted air shifts.

 

[ted chittenden]

PLEASE, don't wish that. That mindset of local business owners is keeping stations outside the major markets going!

Don't worry. Most people, both in- and outside of radio, make their decisions based on their emotions and not on verifiable factual information. I think humans were designed that way.

 

[K.M. Richards]

I know the difference between local and network programming, thank you. Those ads are being run on music stations during locally hosted air shifts.

Sometimes network commercials from barter shows run outside the show themselves, as makegoods for inventory that did not run inside the show itself for whatever reason.

Another possibility is that the station(s) in question may be Mediabase subscribers, which is available to stations that opt to be reporters and then get access to the database in exchange for running a couple of minutes of national spots. One of the stations I consult in Albuquerque does that. I'm also aware of weathercast services which also operate on the basis of spots running inside regular programming.

 

[davideduardo]

I know the difference between local and network programming, thank you. Those ads are being run on music stations during locally hosted air shifts.

Very often spots missed from network or syndicated shows are run "ROS". I don't know about today, but back in the days of Art Bell, stations carrying his show had to run some daytime spots as compensation.

What K.M. said about Mediabase or other barter deals also applies here.

 

[Jay F]

So how do stations in either market set their advertising rates, and how do the advertisers know what they're getting for their money? I guess the assumption would be that a country station is No. 1 in a market like Yakima, but who knows for sure if it's still as dominant as it was when Nielsen was keeping track of listening there?

The last time both companies were rated in Yakima, quite a few years ago now, it was a huge CHR market. Rhythmic Hot 99.7 was #1 and mainstream Top 40 KFFM was #2. Yakima is 50% Hispanic so the country share wasn't as big as it used to but KXDD was definitely the top rated country station. Not sure what, if anything, has changed since then.