If an advertiser uses music in a commercial, the advertiser has to pay a royalty for the music. So perhaps that's why there's no music. Some stations buy "production music" libraries that they can use. Or they can hire a local band. But if they use an actual recording, they could get sued. But I've also had advertisers say they want no music to distract from what they're selling.
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Treasure Coast Is That All There Is?
- Thread starter John FL
- Start date
If an advertiser uses music in a commercial, the advertiser has to pay a royalty for the music. So perhaps that's why there's no music. Some stations buy "production music" libraries that they can use. Or they can hire a local band. But if they use an actual recording, they could get sued. But I've also had advertisers say they want no music to distract from what they're selling.
I've heard a few stations who probably need to be reminded they're not supposed to be using regular rotation licensed music in spots. Heard one a month ago that was using AC/DC and Zeppelin in local spots and I highly doubt they negotiated the rights for that for their local sports show promos, etc.
Good points! Honestly I didn't know the term "production music" but that's what I was thinking. You hear this kind of music in a lot of media, especially TV on shows where something is going on like making a pie or fixing a car etc. I wasn't thinking of a hit song etc. What goes on contractually between the client and the radio station, the public wouldn't know. If the advertiser doesn't want music...so be it!
In all the studios I've seen, mostly in pictures, it all looks so cluttered. I'm amazed most jocks managed as well as they did given all their interactions. Music "carts" and papers in a tight space...I'd go mad! I agree, the client would get a little more in his 30 sec spot as some would include the jock's humor etc.
If there is one aspect to radio that fascinated me the most, it’s the playlist. As I thought about including this subject in this string, I did ask myself – what’s left to say about the subject? Playlists have been discussed to death on these radio boards.
As in so many things, I now place playlists in the “Is That All There Is” category. Until I discovered this radio board, I had no other alternative but to internalize all my feelings. But I was also lucky enough to have “learned” from the very best just by listening carefully.
When my job transferred me to Jacksonville in 1997 to work on what was supposed to be a 4-month project, but it turned into 17 years of living there, it would be very active years involving playlists. Unfortunately, most of those years would become extremely frustrating.
It’s not uncommon to see radio talent engaged in other sidelines. Some do voice over work; others are the entertainment at parties and weddings etc. being a mobile DJ. It was at a company event that I first encountered a guy named Tony Mann. There would be two other occasions that I would see him masterfully do his thing.
Tony was the midday guy at CHR and heritage WAPE-FM. He was also the M.D. I’d eventually conclude that he was the kind of guy you’d want making music decisions for a radio station. He had an obvious love of the music, and you could see how excited he was playing all sorts of genres of songs. After many years of not listening to CHR, WAPE was a station I'd listen to on occasion. IMO, the music of the late 90s was quite good. In some ways, WAPE, at that time had a South Florida vibe. All those Ricky Martin songs and others made me feel "at home."
If you remember the movie “Dirty Dancing,” Patrick Swayze says the line: “The steps aren’t enough…feel the music.” For a long time, I believed that those responsible for the music had to feel the song on both a personal level and in what their listeners would enjoy. While justification to play a song must exist, it shouldn't go to the level of treating a song like it's just a science experiment. There's so much more and love of the music itself is something I feel is lacking. Perhaps it’s all another aspect of life that’s become more impersonal.
It would be many years later, 2010, that Tony got a gig at iHeart’s/Clear Channel’s WJGH-FM, a variety based classic hits station. From what I knew, Tony wasn’t very much utilized in both his knowledge and understanding of the Jacksonville market. Even on these radio boards, I’ve read of the frustration of that reality by many others. Even in my own career, it was often better just to keep your mouth shut.
In the early part of this century, I started experimenting with music, especially from the mid-70s. I felt oldies formats needed some tweaking. A dream come true was about to happen.
More on all of this upcoming!
As in so many things, I now place playlists in the “Is That All There Is” category. Until I discovered this radio board, I had no other alternative but to internalize all my feelings. But I was also lucky enough to have “learned” from the very best just by listening carefully.
When my job transferred me to Jacksonville in 1997 to work on what was supposed to be a 4-month project, but it turned into 17 years of living there, it would be very active years involving playlists. Unfortunately, most of those years would become extremely frustrating.
It’s not uncommon to see radio talent engaged in other sidelines. Some do voice over work; others are the entertainment at parties and weddings etc. being a mobile DJ. It was at a company event that I first encountered a guy named Tony Mann. There would be two other occasions that I would see him masterfully do his thing.
Tony was the midday guy at CHR and heritage WAPE-FM. He was also the M.D. I’d eventually conclude that he was the kind of guy you’d want making music decisions for a radio station. He had an obvious love of the music, and you could see how excited he was playing all sorts of genres of songs. After many years of not listening to CHR, WAPE was a station I'd listen to on occasion. IMO, the music of the late 90s was quite good. In some ways, WAPE, at that time had a South Florida vibe. All those Ricky Martin songs and others made me feel "at home."
If you remember the movie “Dirty Dancing,” Patrick Swayze says the line: “The steps aren’t enough…feel the music.” For a long time, I believed that those responsible for the music had to feel the song on both a personal level and in what their listeners would enjoy. While justification to play a song must exist, it shouldn't go to the level of treating a song like it's just a science experiment. There's so much more and love of the music itself is something I feel is lacking. Perhaps it’s all another aspect of life that’s become more impersonal.
It would be many years later, 2010, that Tony got a gig at iHeart’s/Clear Channel’s WJGH-FM, a variety based classic hits station. From what I knew, Tony wasn’t very much utilized in both his knowledge and understanding of the Jacksonville market. Even on these radio boards, I’ve read of the frustration of that reality by many others. Even in my own career, it was often better just to keep your mouth shut.
In the early part of this century, I started experimenting with music, especially from the mid-70s. I felt oldies formats needed some tweaking. A dream come true was about to happen.
More on all of this upcoming!
If there was a time, I especially enjoyed posting on these radio boards, it would have been in the early years of the 21st century. There was much happening in both my career and the company I worked for that should have given me a clue of the rocky road ahead for radio and especially for oldies formats.
As I may have mentioned earlier, there would eventually be a lot of parallels in my own career and where many radio folks would find themselves. Yes, hindsight is 20/20.
Among the radio folks I got to know in Jacksonville was Pat Garrett. He was the PD of oldies Cool 96.9 (WKQL). When I was first introduced to the station, I immediately noticed differences to what I was used to in Miami’s WMXJ. For one major thing, it was the promotions budget. And there were differences in the music featured too.
Promotions is another aspect of radio that has long fascinated me. Given the smaller market and tight budgets, I still found Cool’s promotions were done well. You may have guessed it, but we’ll also dive into “Is That All There Is” to promotions later.
In time, I met Pat for lunch on weekends several times. It was always about the music. For the record, Pat was a very nice guy. I enjoyed his company, and he at least gave me the courtesy of listening. It was all about my favorite subject – playlists. It was a rush to have chats with a PD!
Pat was friends with the late Tom Kent. I never heard of him. This may have been around 2002 when Tom began a syndicated oldies program. About the only thing I remember about our few get togethers was Pat thought I shared Tom's programming/music ideas.
It was many years later that I heard Tom Kent at night on Magic 102.7 in S. Florida during a visit. It was a 70s show, and I thought it was done well. Genre variety was key in nostalgia formats, and he nailed it in my view. I especially liked the wow songs interspersed in the hour.
Over the years, I’ve noticed a lot of negative comments about Tom Kent on these boards. I suppose it’s to each his own. I believe Tom’s programming formula was simply an updated blueprint of the way AM Top 40 sounded. I’ll expand on this further later.
During our last meeting together, Pat advised me that the “new owner,” Cox Media Group (CMG) didn’t make any changes to Cool’s playlist. Pat was relieved. I was suspicious.
In my own banking career, it was consolidations just like radio. New owners invariably change something. It’s in their DNA. They also like bringing in their own handpicked management teams. It all gets very disruptive in one’s career.
Pat was fired shortly after we met. Cool 96.9 was now in other hands. Radio was changing.
Upcoming: More on playlists & why oldies formats were so good & “Radio Buckets.”
As I may have mentioned earlier, there would eventually be a lot of parallels in my own career and where many radio folks would find themselves. Yes, hindsight is 20/20.
Among the radio folks I got to know in Jacksonville was Pat Garrett. He was the PD of oldies Cool 96.9 (WKQL). When I was first introduced to the station, I immediately noticed differences to what I was used to in Miami’s WMXJ. For one major thing, it was the promotions budget. And there were differences in the music featured too.
Promotions is another aspect of radio that has long fascinated me. Given the smaller market and tight budgets, I still found Cool’s promotions were done well. You may have guessed it, but we’ll also dive into “Is That All There Is” to promotions later.
In time, I met Pat for lunch on weekends several times. It was always about the music. For the record, Pat was a very nice guy. I enjoyed his company, and he at least gave me the courtesy of listening. It was all about my favorite subject – playlists. It was a rush to have chats with a PD!
Pat was friends with the late Tom Kent. I never heard of him. This may have been around 2002 when Tom began a syndicated oldies program. About the only thing I remember about our few get togethers was Pat thought I shared Tom's programming/music ideas.
It was many years later that I heard Tom Kent at night on Magic 102.7 in S. Florida during a visit. It was a 70s show, and I thought it was done well. Genre variety was key in nostalgia formats, and he nailed it in my view. I especially liked the wow songs interspersed in the hour.
Over the years, I’ve noticed a lot of negative comments about Tom Kent on these boards. I suppose it’s to each his own. I believe Tom’s programming formula was simply an updated blueprint of the way AM Top 40 sounded. I’ll expand on this further later.
During our last meeting together, Pat advised me that the “new owner,” Cox Media Group (CMG) didn’t make any changes to Cool’s playlist. Pat was relieved. I was suspicious.
In my own banking career, it was consolidations just like radio. New owners invariably change something. It’s in their DNA. They also like bringing in their own handpicked management teams. It all gets very disruptive in one’s career.
Pat was fired shortly after we met. Cool 96.9 was now in other hands. Radio was changing.
Upcoming: More on playlists & why oldies formats were so good & “Radio Buckets.”
To understand the popularity of oldies formats, you’d have to go back to that whole vibe that was AM hit music radio. First off, there was the music itself. If you research periods of music creativity, you'd see the mid-60s to the early 70s has been acknowledged as a great music period. In fact, I've read accounts from record producers and the leading PDs of AM's heyday that acknowledged the same.
I put that enormous creative music wave from 1966-1973. It’s not to say music before and after that time was ordinary – it was not.
There were three main music buckets, as I call them, but they are genres. What dominated was pop, Motown/Soul, and rock ‘n roll. Depending on location, the playlist would favor one of those buckets over the other.
Living in N. New Jersey, at night I pulled in CKLW-AM from Windsor, Ontario that also served Detroit. No surprise - there was a heavy emphasis on Motown/ Soul. WABC tended to favor pop hits the most with Motown/Soul not too far behind.
If a station had a 20-song weekly playlist, there was as close as possible consistent allocation of music buckets each week. What also existed were country crossover hits, instrumentals, novelty tunes, bubblegum, TV & movie themes, that helped round out what was truly a lot of genre variety. In my experiences, pop hits tended to dominate and all the above would have fit in the pop category.
There are oldies formats that began as early as the early 1970’s such as Phoenix’ KOOL. But it was the 1980s that saw a rise in stations offering the oldies format. It was a bonanza of sorts. For all those massive numbers of Baby Boomers who grew up in the 1960’s listening to AM hit music radio were still in the money demo. A 1965 song in 1985 was only 20 years old.
Oldies formats emulated much of how AM radio sounded in the 60s and even 70s. There were jingles, personality DJs, a wide variety of music, contests, daily music features such as "The Top 5 @ 5" or "The Fab Four @4," themed weekends, etc. Over the years, the old CBS Radio would earn kudos as being among the best offering the oldies format. Country crossovers that I mentioned earlier were often shunned by some doing the format. I never agreed with that. But it is what it is.
In the early part of this century, there were oldies formats that fell by the wayside. Depending on the owner/operator, some oldies formats were tweaked to advance the music sweet spot. Eventually, they would become variety-based classic hits formats. That’s the approach I favored, especially where ratings and revenue potential favored that.
If there is one ‘bucket’ that was negatively impacted the most, it’s obviously the “Motown/Soul” one. Some of you may remember that by the late 70s, there were FM stations that gained popularity by proclaiming “Disco Sucks.” They attracted an audience who didn't want any part of the disco divas.
As time went along, we would see formats include “No Rap, no hip-hop” tag lines etc. There were the AC formats that offered music by artists of color. These would have been the kind of artists and sound that would have fit in a mass-appeal kind of environment that existed many years earlier.
Today, many variety-based classic hits stations have a limited number of songs one can consider rhythmic or in the soul category. Whitney Houston and Michael Jackson are the safest bests. Other artists of color get their occasional spins but it’s obvious – the rock and rock’n roll bucket dominates with pop hits next and with soul songs trailing even on variety-based classic hits formats.
The bottom line is those who followed baby boomers have absolutely no connection to AM hit music radio and how it sounded. They may have heard their Grandparents or parents listen to oldies formats, but this would not be something they would embrace. We already know those who weren’t even alive when some rock songs were popular, love them.
This probably explains the popularity of both classic rock formats and rock-oriented classic hits. For the variety-based classic hits formats that are popular today, it’s reasonable to conclude females gravitate to it. It would not surprise that were or still are AC format lovers.
A lot was said here. If I’ve learned anything about radio, it’s that there are reasons for everything. "Is That All There Is" to a career next.
I put that enormous creative music wave from 1966-1973. It’s not to say music before and after that time was ordinary – it was not.
There were three main music buckets, as I call them, but they are genres. What dominated was pop, Motown/Soul, and rock ‘n roll. Depending on location, the playlist would favor one of those buckets over the other.
Living in N. New Jersey, at night I pulled in CKLW-AM from Windsor, Ontario that also served Detroit. No surprise - there was a heavy emphasis on Motown/ Soul. WABC tended to favor pop hits the most with Motown/Soul not too far behind.
If a station had a 20-song weekly playlist, there was as close as possible consistent allocation of music buckets each week. What also existed were country crossover hits, instrumentals, novelty tunes, bubblegum, TV & movie themes, that helped round out what was truly a lot of genre variety. In my experiences, pop hits tended to dominate and all the above would have fit in the pop category.
There are oldies formats that began as early as the early 1970’s such as Phoenix’ KOOL. But it was the 1980s that saw a rise in stations offering the oldies format. It was a bonanza of sorts. For all those massive numbers of Baby Boomers who grew up in the 1960’s listening to AM hit music radio were still in the money demo. A 1965 song in 1985 was only 20 years old.
Oldies formats emulated much of how AM radio sounded in the 60s and even 70s. There were jingles, personality DJs, a wide variety of music, contests, daily music features such as "The Top 5 @ 5" or "The Fab Four @4," themed weekends, etc. Over the years, the old CBS Radio would earn kudos as being among the best offering the oldies format. Country crossovers that I mentioned earlier were often shunned by some doing the format. I never agreed with that. But it is what it is.
In the early part of this century, there were oldies formats that fell by the wayside. Depending on the owner/operator, some oldies formats were tweaked to advance the music sweet spot. Eventually, they would become variety-based classic hits formats. That’s the approach I favored, especially where ratings and revenue potential favored that.
If there is one ‘bucket’ that was negatively impacted the most, it’s obviously the “Motown/Soul” one. Some of you may remember that by the late 70s, there were FM stations that gained popularity by proclaiming “Disco Sucks.” They attracted an audience who didn't want any part of the disco divas.
As time went along, we would see formats include “No Rap, no hip-hop” tag lines etc. There were the AC formats that offered music by artists of color. These would have been the kind of artists and sound that would have fit in a mass-appeal kind of environment that existed many years earlier.
Today, many variety-based classic hits stations have a limited number of songs one can consider rhythmic or in the soul category. Whitney Houston and Michael Jackson are the safest bests. Other artists of color get their occasional spins but it’s obvious – the rock and rock’n roll bucket dominates with pop hits next and with soul songs trailing even on variety-based classic hits formats.
The bottom line is those who followed baby boomers have absolutely no connection to AM hit music radio and how it sounded. They may have heard their Grandparents or parents listen to oldies formats, but this would not be something they would embrace. We already know those who weren’t even alive when some rock songs were popular, love them.
This probably explains the popularity of both classic rock formats and rock-oriented classic hits. For the variety-based classic hits formats that are popular today, it’s reasonable to conclude females gravitate to it. It would not surprise that were or still are AC format lovers.
A lot was said here. If I’ve learned anything about radio, it’s that there are reasons for everything. "Is That All There Is" to a career next.
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Before moving on, I'd like to stick with playlists a bit longer.
Shockingly, I heard Lynyrd Skynyrd's "Sweet Home Alabama," a song from 1974 play on WCBS-FM. When that was, I can't be sure but it was a long time ago now.
What was surprising to me, at least at first, was the song never played on WABC. For the FM counterpart, that song never played on WXLO (99X) either. It also never appeared on their Top 99 year-end countdown. At first blush, this would not be the kind of song you'd expect to hear on NYC radio. The song reached #8 on Billboard yet it didn't show up on their year-end Top 100. I have no idea if Casey Kasem ever featured it on AT 40. I don't remember that but likely I would have switched off the song. If someone knows, please chime in.
In fact, as I reported on these boards many years ago, I never heard of the band or the song until I relocated to Jacksonville in the late 90s.
That song spread like wildfire on many classic hits formats and I continued to wonder why that was the case. Even to this day, here on The Treasure Coast, that 51 year old song is still heard on occasion on iHeart's WQOL. Given this is Premium Choice programming, that song is heard on many or virtually all iHeart Classic Hits stations.
Yes, I never cared for the song. While my personal taste doesn't matter, it's probably another case where some songs were tested that were featured on rock formats and/or rock-leaning classic hits formats like Eagle. I don't believe CBS Radio would have taken a chance on that song in their big, northern states markets if it didn't test well enough.
There are songs/groups in the Southern Rock category that have done well outside of the south like The Allman Brothers, Atlanta Rhythm Section etc. I like their songs. Maybe it's all a matter of taste. I can also think back to Miami's WHYI (Y-100) from 1974. The station had only been on the air a year and their playlists were not yet in a more unique rhythmic direction. There was a lot more rock oriented songs than you'd think if you listen to airchecks from that year. There were portions of Broward County (Such as Davie) that were home to southerners too. It's entirely possible Y-100 would have played that song. If anyone knows one way or another, it would be interesting to know once and for all.
It's like I was saying in the last post. That rock 'n roll bucket was growing at the expense of the Motown/Soul bucket. Eventually, I remember seeing "Sweet Home Alabama" was listed among favorite party songs. So, it's another validation that a new generation was breaking away from tradition so to speak. The term "variety" that's used in taglines nowadays doesn't carry the same weight as it once did.
Shockingly, I heard Lynyrd Skynyrd's "Sweet Home Alabama," a song from 1974 play on WCBS-FM. When that was, I can't be sure but it was a long time ago now.
What was surprising to me, at least at first, was the song never played on WABC. For the FM counterpart, that song never played on WXLO (99X) either. It also never appeared on their Top 99 year-end countdown. At first blush, this would not be the kind of song you'd expect to hear on NYC radio. The song reached #8 on Billboard yet it didn't show up on their year-end Top 100. I have no idea if Casey Kasem ever featured it on AT 40. I don't remember that but likely I would have switched off the song. If someone knows, please chime in.
In fact, as I reported on these boards many years ago, I never heard of the band or the song until I relocated to Jacksonville in the late 90s.
That song spread like wildfire on many classic hits formats and I continued to wonder why that was the case. Even to this day, here on The Treasure Coast, that 51 year old song is still heard on occasion on iHeart's WQOL. Given this is Premium Choice programming, that song is heard on many or virtually all iHeart Classic Hits stations.
Yes, I never cared for the song. While my personal taste doesn't matter, it's probably another case where some songs were tested that were featured on rock formats and/or rock-leaning classic hits formats like Eagle. I don't believe CBS Radio would have taken a chance on that song in their big, northern states markets if it didn't test well enough.
There are songs/groups in the Southern Rock category that have done well outside of the south like The Allman Brothers, Atlanta Rhythm Section etc. I like their songs. Maybe it's all a matter of taste. I can also think back to Miami's WHYI (Y-100) from 1974. The station had only been on the air a year and their playlists were not yet in a more unique rhythmic direction. There was a lot more rock oriented songs than you'd think if you listen to airchecks from that year. There were portions of Broward County (Such as Davie) that were home to southerners too. It's entirely possible Y-100 would have played that song. If anyone knows one way or another, it would be interesting to know once and for all.
It's like I was saying in the last post. That rock 'n roll bucket was growing at the expense of the Motown/Soul bucket. Eventually, I remember seeing "Sweet Home Alabama" was listed among favorite party songs. So, it's another validation that a new generation was breaking away from tradition so to speak. The term "variety" that's used in taglines nowadays doesn't carry the same weight as it once did.
Correct. It gets a lot of airplay on classic hits stations because it tests well. The Eagles also test well. A lot of classic rock songs get played on classic hits stations because the Top 40 songs from the 70s tend to attract people over 70. While the rock songs from that era don't.
Sweet Home Alabama charted #8 in the Billboard Hot 100, which means it got a lot of airplay at the time:
Sweet Home Alabama
Lynyrd Skynyrd7/27/74
8
10/26/74
17
But you're right about Skynyrd. They're a band from Jacksonville. The Van Zant brothers grew up there. 38 Special is also from Jacksonville and are also still popular today.
Earlier on I mentioned that A.I. or a simple internet search is not always accurate when it comes to music. It's a reasonable assumption that a #8 song on Billboard would have gotten a lot of airplay at the time. More than likely, that airplay would have been both regional - in the southern states and played on some rock formats. As I also mentioned, I never found the song anywhere in playlists of the two leading hit music stations in NYC. Plus I never heard the song anywhere in my work travels until I got to Jax.
It's one of many situations where chart position on a national survey doesn't matter much if the song doesn't meet certain criteria for airplay. Every once in a while I'd listen to AT40 when it was brand new. I also listened as rebroadcasts many years later. It always amazed me that I never heard of some songs that charted very high.
Earlier, I mentioned WHYI in Miami, Y-100. Initially, the station featured songs that one could say mirrored a lot of hit music across the country. But as time went along and the P.D., Bill Tanner, saw Miami listeners were unique to say the least, the station began evolving in a direction that was responsive to the market served.
From the 1970s, I remember Bill Tanner talk about not adding Kenny Nolan's "I Like Dreamin'" to their playlist. The song was a hit reaching #3 nationally. Many years later when Y-100 had transformed into something truly unique, there were songs that were in their Top 10, even Top 5 that were at the bottom tier of the national charts. In 1982, Shalamar's "Night To Remember," a song I've talked about over the years a lot, was Y100's #1 song of the year, yet it never cracked the AT 40.
When classic hits formats continued to evolve, I noticed quite a lot of songs that weren't even in the Top 20 get good rotations. Now, don't misunderstand, there were also hit songs that charted very high that good good spins as well. I truly believe that music testing changed the trajectory and the thinking process of song adds.
Another song I never heard of was Peter Gabriel's "In Your Eyes." When I heard it, on classic hits, I loved it. The single was released in 1986. By that time I was pretty much only listening to oldies. When I checked the song out, it only reached chart position #26 nationally. But it reached #1 on the U.S. Mainstream Rock survey from Billboard. So there you go! As I've been mentioning, that "rock bucket" was growing at the expense of the other genres.
Anyway, I have long been fascinated with playlists and the reasoning behind the airing of certain songs or not even considering them at all. As with anything, nothing is perfect. For those who don't have a "set it and forget it" mentality, course corrections can be made.
I've had so many cases of a client giving 180 seconds worth of copy for a 60" spot buy. It takes a lot of work and a good seller.
What I found works in nearly all cases is to say nothing to the client about "that's too much" and go back to the station. Produce three or four spots that say, "Henry's Furniture has so much too offer, like low prices, the newest styles, free delivery and an extended warranty. Our warranty is so good that we want to tell you what you get when you buy any piece of home furnishing from Henry..." Or, "Our models are so up to date with everything you need to make your home look stunning. So we'd like to tell you about how Henry's is always offering the latest styles along with the favorite traditional ones..."
We'd make four spots, one on each feature but headlining the four. The final tag would be something about "we have so much to tell you about our store that we'll be back later with more details on why yo´ll be happy wjth Henry... Henry's Furniture... at South Highway and Riverside Park."
When we presented, we'd say that we "had to get our writer and producer to work extra, as you have so much to tell your customers."
Today, with AI assisted copy writing, it is easy to get multiple spots and show the client that you worked extra hard to tell their full story!
I'm jumping back to the early 1970s and in fact, most of the 1970s and the oldies formats. I was in Dallas/Fort Worth.
I recall KXOL FM in Fort Worth dropping their long-time country format for automated oldies during the day and a simulcast of KXOL AM at night. A big hit at the time I found them on the dial, Theme from Shaft by Isaac Hayes. Of all the top 40s in DFW, I preferred KXOL over KLIF and KFJZ. I recall 100,000 watt FM KDNT being automated oldies 24/7. I really liked them because they did 15 minute newscasts perhaps 4 times a day instead of the normal 5 minutes an hour and their commercial load was a couple of spots an hour.
In both instances, the rotation was 50% oldies and 50% current hits. Let's just say neiher station set the ratings on fire. In fact, KDNT, although reaching the big city with their big signal, they catered to Denton exclusively.
A visit to a friend in Orange County, California gave me a nice sampling of oldies formats. KWOW in Pomona was my favorite. Coming out of their 4 commercial breaks they used their great jingles to usher in a current hit. That's 4 currents an hour wih the remainder being oldies with live air talent.
The first true oldies stations was finely executed in my opinion by KXVI in Plano (Dallas/Fort Worth). They were 100% oldies, very good air talent and a good jingle package. There were contests and all the bells and whistles. I suppose the salespeople weren't too successful selling in the area. Although they had a strong signal at Valley View Mall to Mesquite, being a top of the AM dial 1,000 watt daytimer at 1600 must have been a factor. Within a few months, the great air talent and jingles remained but it was now 50% current hits. A few months later they went southern gospel. Some of the air talent on KXVI went on to jobs in Dallas/Fort Worth Radio. They were that good. Too bad he stars couldn't align for a stellar signal, 24/7 operation and deeper pockets to give it time to work.
For at least a few years, 50,000 watt clear channel KOMA, once a legendary Top 40, went to oldies complete with their jingles from back when and air talent included some Top 40 heyday names. It was actually faithful to the more music top 40 era. They did headline news at :40 with a newsman that sound like they did complete with teletype in the background. I heard at least one case conclude with a news story from a certain date which was the day the song they were about to play was #1 on the charts. It seems things changed frequently, likely learning what people wanted in the 1970s and 1980s versus what they got in the original top 40 format. The format eventually moved to FM but not before all the old jingles and jocks were replaced. In other words it sounded like the oldies format anywhere, not the KOMA Oldies format.
I recall KXOL FM in Fort Worth dropping their long-time country format for automated oldies during the day and a simulcast of KXOL AM at night. A big hit at the time I found them on the dial, Theme from Shaft by Isaac Hayes. Of all the top 40s in DFW, I preferred KXOL over KLIF and KFJZ. I recall 100,000 watt FM KDNT being automated oldies 24/7. I really liked them because they did 15 minute newscasts perhaps 4 times a day instead of the normal 5 minutes an hour and their commercial load was a couple of spots an hour.
In both instances, the rotation was 50% oldies and 50% current hits. Let's just say neiher station set the ratings on fire. In fact, KDNT, although reaching the big city with their big signal, they catered to Denton exclusively.
A visit to a friend in Orange County, California gave me a nice sampling of oldies formats. KWOW in Pomona was my favorite. Coming out of their 4 commercial breaks they used their great jingles to usher in a current hit. That's 4 currents an hour wih the remainder being oldies with live air talent.
The first true oldies stations was finely executed in my opinion by KXVI in Plano (Dallas/Fort Worth). They were 100% oldies, very good air talent and a good jingle package. There were contests and all the bells and whistles. I suppose the salespeople weren't too successful selling in the area. Although they had a strong signal at Valley View Mall to Mesquite, being a top of the AM dial 1,000 watt daytimer at 1600 must have been a factor. Within a few months, the great air talent and jingles remained but it was now 50% current hits. A few months later they went southern gospel. Some of the air talent on KXVI went on to jobs in Dallas/Fort Worth Radio. They were that good. Too bad he stars couldn't align for a stellar signal, 24/7 operation and deeper pockets to give it time to work.
For at least a few years, 50,000 watt clear channel KOMA, once a legendary Top 40, went to oldies complete with their jingles from back when and air talent included some Top 40 heyday names. It was actually faithful to the more music top 40 era. They did headline news at :40 with a newsman that sound like they did complete with teletype in the background. I heard at least one case conclude with a news story from a certain date which was the day the song they were about to play was #1 on the charts. It seems things changed frequently, likely learning what people wanted in the 1970s and 1980s versus what they got in the original top 40 format. The format eventually moved to FM but not before all the old jingles and jocks were replaced. In other words it sounded like the oldies format anywhere, not the KOMA Oldies format.
The reason "Sweet Home Alabama," didn't wind up in Billboard's year-end chart had to do with how that chart was compiled and the dates covered. The dates covered are the more important here. In 1974, Billboard created its top 100 year-end list based on how songs performed on the chart between the second week of November of 1973 and the first week of November 1974. If songs had additional weeks on the weekly charts before or after those dates, those weeks were not counted in compiling the year-end charts. "Sweet Home Alabama," first made the top-40 list in August of 1974 and would reach its chart peak in early October. It then fell off the charts rather rapidly, and, if memory serves, it had only two or three weeks more in the hot 100 when the covered charts period ended. The result was, like the vast majority of songs that peaked in the Billboard top 10 during October, "Sweet Home Alabama," never made into the year-end hot 100. Other big hits from that period that had a similar fate included Stevie Wonder's "You Haven't Done Nothin," and Barry White's "Can't Get Enough of Your Love, Babe," (both of which reached #1 on the weekly surveys). Olivia newton-john's #1 hit, "I Honestly Love You,", though it spent 3 weeks at the top of Billboard in late September and early October, wound up being the #97 song of the year 1974 because 1) it rushed up the chart very fast; and 2) most of the song's downward movement after peaking wasn't included on Billboard's 1974 year-end chart simply because it occurred after Billboard's cutoff date for inclusion.
As to why "Sweet Home Alabama," is being played right now, it attracts a white male audience, including younger white males. That is the audience that national advertisers are trying to reach; hence the inclusion of the song on most classic hits playlists.
Exactly. The song is more popular now than when it was a current. Eight years ago, the band announced its "farewell tour." It sold out.
6 years after announcing ‘farewell tour,’ legendary rock band has new tour dates in August, September
To this day the rock and roll powerhouse tours continuously.
They realized they can't retire. They're too popular. The last original member of the band died a few months back. The original lead singer's brother has been leading the band, and he's looking to retire soon.
Great detective work and reply! The way Billboard handled this sucked - especially for the artists/songs that didn't get recognized but should have.
WABC had a cut-off date as well. If a song charted high enough near year-end, it would have been included in the following year's Top 100. There were many songs like that. At the top of my head, Peter, Paul & Mary's "Leavin' on a jet plane"comes to mind. It was #1 for many weeks in late1969 on WABC. It wasn't on the 1969 survey but it held a respectible #24 position in the Top 100 of 1970. It was also common to find maybe a half dozen songs that appeared two years in a row on two different Top 100 lists. These were the songs that charted high late in the year but they remained popular for many weeks into the new year.
One of the reasons for cut-off dates, at least at radio stations, was paper copies needed to be printed. You'd find these in local record stores. In the case of WABC, you'd also send in a self-addressed stamped envelope (remember those?) and the station would mail you a copy. I'd get my WABC list that way. As you'd expect, there was also a crunch to get these surveys to the printer given the holiday season was nearing.
Obviously, a lot of stations followed their own methods and rules. With Robert Reford's recent passing, I was looking back at the popularity of B.J. Thomas' "Raindrops Keep Falling on my Head." That was the #1 song of the year on WABC in 1970. On the FM side, WOR-FM didn't mention the song at all in their 1970 survey. It was in the Top 10 of 1969 and there it stayed!
BTW, Barry White's signature song "Can't Get Enough of Your Love Babe" was the #2 song for 1974 on WABC.
Stevie Wonder's "You Haven't Done Nothing" was #35 in WABC's Top 100 of 1974. At least there, these great songs were recognized.
Honestly, I never noticed how Billboard handled their Top 100 countdowns. There must be a lot of other blasphemies.
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Here is a list of all the Billboard year-end lists from 1947 to 2024.
Billboard used different methods and different beginning and end dates for determining its year-end entries. For example, 1974 (the year we've been talking about) was the first year that Billboard's start date was the second week of November of the previous year; before that, it had always begun with the first week of January of the year being surveyed and then went through September (1962 and 1965), November (1959, 1960, 1961, 1963, 1964, 1966, 1967, and 1968). 1969 was the first year where the end date appears to have been the first week of November, and that wouldn't change until 1985 when the start date was the second week of December of the previous year to the first week of December of the current year.
Another interesting thing is that Casey Kasem, in his year-end countdowns, did not always use the published charts in Billboard. The years he used the published Billboard charts were 1970, 1971, 1974, 1975, 1976, 1978, 1979, 1985, 1986, and 1987. Shadoe Stevens, after he took over the show, used the year-end charts for both 1988 and 1989 but didn't use any of Billboard's year-end charts through the remainder of the show's run. There were several different reasons why Casey and Shadoe didn't use the Billboard year-end charts during certain years, and if you wish, I can probably provide more details in future responses.
Ted, you've done more than your share. No need for more details. Appreciate all your efforts regarding Billboard & all the great responses.
In college, I was required to take "Logic & Deductive Reasoning." I'm not sure for which Major that was for as I had three of them before I figured what I wanted to do. I excelled in it, never studied it in a typical way a student prepares for a test, but rather I read a lot about logic on my own. It was a course that threw many for a loop. It was the easiest 'A' I got in college. I bring this up because I've long felt many radio decisions were illogical.
Perhaps there's some built-in biases that we bring in along the way that have little to do with logic, especially when it comes to music preferences and ultimately playlists. While I don't want to beat a dead horse, "Sweet Home Alabama," a song referencing Watergate and slamming Neil Young for what ultimately was his "Southern Man" song, just leaves me wondering about relevance. Maybe sometimes it matters and sometimes it doesn't. Maybe it's simply liking how a song sounds regardless of the lyrics.
I also think the collective "we" have a tendency to make comparisons to what we may consider exceptional radio programming and/or style without fully considering market differences. When I relocated to Jax, I'd shake my head hearing Lynyrd Skynyrd songs. I did the same when that market's oldies station would play songs such as Sheb Wooley's late 50's monster-hit, "The Purple People Eater." besides that song being in regular rotation, listeners asked for it it often on request hours. "Polk Salad Annie" by Tony Joe White was another song I never heard before. And yes, I didn't care for that song either. I'd say to myself, "Magic 102.7 in Miami would never play that song."
But really, how many people love everything their favorite radio station plays? If there's anything we should take note of is mistakes happen, tastes change, and those who are great at what they do will take a course correction. Some wait too long, some are clueless. Those radio stations that have been top tier for decades are there for a reason - their success is earned.
We hear the term "cookie-cutter" as it relates to the sameness of how specific formats sound as one goes from one market to another. But when there are differences, it can be a bone of contention. Perhaps it's human nature to critisize more and complement less. I've long talked about all my trips between Jacksonville & South Florida. I knew every oldies station, eventually classic hits station along the way. I'd do this every 6-8 weeks.
When Orlando's WOCL (105.9 Sunny FM) came in, I rarely found the station sounding the same from trip-to-trip. I'd complain, on these boards, about "Inconsistency in sound," which sounds so elitist as I think about it. What was consistent were songs (I didn't like) such as The Sweet's "The Ballroom Blitz," Disco-Tex and the Sex-O-Lettes "Get Dancin,'" played on my trips in what seemed a very long time.
What eventually did happen was I develloped a strong liking to the P.D., Rick Stacy. And I have this radio board to thank. Someone (in radio) took the time to reach out to me in private message. He went into detail about Rick's strategies. He doesn't play it safe for sure and he's lasted a helluva longer than most being at that same station for a very long time. There is a tendency to be judgemental and I believe I've improved a lot there.
All those trips made me familiar with The Treasure Coast's WQOL Coast 103.7. The station has made tremendous changes since my travel days. While WOCL was predictably unpredictable, WQOL always played it safe. I'd hear The Beatles' "Come Together" and Elton John's "Crocadile Rock" every time I drove through the area I'd eventually move to. At least in the years, I discovered the station and made it a habit to listen, I never recalled them playing 50s and early 60s in the mix. It was when WMXJ's signal would come through, I'd hear a lot of the vintage stuff.
Presently here on The Treasure Coast, my biggest beef with Soft AC WOSN is their editing of certain songs. I've long been a Chicago and Earth, Wind & Fire fan. Pure joy is hearing both artists back-to-back. There's heavy edits for Chicago's Begininngs" and Earth, Wind & Fire's "That's the Way of the World." I don't have much of a problem when the single version of a song plays. But when the edits are obvious and Chicago's song is trimmed down to the ridiculous, it's like why bother?
If there are time restrictions, don't even bother playing the songs. WOSN does feature a lot of Chicago and Earth, Wind & Fire tunes. I'd leave it there.
When we say, "Is That All There is?" about playlists, it may be about perceived lack of effort effort. To get a winning playlist requires a lot of effort and skills. We may not like some of the results but I'm discovering more & more, there are reasons it is what it is.
In college, I was required to take "Logic & Deductive Reasoning." I'm not sure for which Major that was for as I had three of them before I figured what I wanted to do. I excelled in it, never studied it in a typical way a student prepares for a test, but rather I read a lot about logic on my own. It was a course that threw many for a loop. It was the easiest 'A' I got in college. I bring this up because I've long felt many radio decisions were illogical.
Perhaps there's some built-in biases that we bring in along the way that have little to do with logic, especially when it comes to music preferences and ultimately playlists. While I don't want to beat a dead horse, "Sweet Home Alabama," a song referencing Watergate and slamming Neil Young for what ultimately was his "Southern Man" song, just leaves me wondering about relevance. Maybe sometimes it matters and sometimes it doesn't. Maybe it's simply liking how a song sounds regardless of the lyrics.
I also think the collective "we" have a tendency to make comparisons to what we may consider exceptional radio programming and/or style without fully considering market differences. When I relocated to Jax, I'd shake my head hearing Lynyrd Skynyrd songs. I did the same when that market's oldies station would play songs such as Sheb Wooley's late 50's monster-hit, "The Purple People Eater." besides that song being in regular rotation, listeners asked for it it often on request hours. "Polk Salad Annie" by Tony Joe White was another song I never heard before. And yes, I didn't care for that song either. I'd say to myself, "Magic 102.7 in Miami would never play that song."
But really, how many people love everything their favorite radio station plays? If there's anything we should take note of is mistakes happen, tastes change, and those who are great at what they do will take a course correction. Some wait too long, some are clueless. Those radio stations that have been top tier for decades are there for a reason - their success is earned.
We hear the term "cookie-cutter" as it relates to the sameness of how specific formats sound as one goes from one market to another. But when there are differences, it can be a bone of contention. Perhaps it's human nature to critisize more and complement less. I've long talked about all my trips between Jacksonville & South Florida. I knew every oldies station, eventually classic hits station along the way. I'd do this every 6-8 weeks.
When Orlando's WOCL (105.9 Sunny FM) came in, I rarely found the station sounding the same from trip-to-trip. I'd complain, on these boards, about "Inconsistency in sound," which sounds so elitist as I think about it. What was consistent were songs (I didn't like) such as The Sweet's "The Ballroom Blitz," Disco-Tex and the Sex-O-Lettes "Get Dancin,'" played on my trips in what seemed a very long time.
What eventually did happen was I develloped a strong liking to the P.D., Rick Stacy. And I have this radio board to thank. Someone (in radio) took the time to reach out to me in private message. He went into detail about Rick's strategies. He doesn't play it safe for sure and he's lasted a helluva longer than most being at that same station for a very long time. There is a tendency to be judgemental and I believe I've improved a lot there.
All those trips made me familiar with The Treasure Coast's WQOL Coast 103.7. The station has made tremendous changes since my travel days. While WOCL was predictably unpredictable, WQOL always played it safe. I'd hear The Beatles' "Come Together" and Elton John's "Crocadile Rock" every time I drove through the area I'd eventually move to. At least in the years, I discovered the station and made it a habit to listen, I never recalled them playing 50s and early 60s in the mix. It was when WMXJ's signal would come through, I'd hear a lot of the vintage stuff.
Presently here on The Treasure Coast, my biggest beef with Soft AC WOSN is their editing of certain songs. I've long been a Chicago and Earth, Wind & Fire fan. Pure joy is hearing both artists back-to-back. There's heavy edits for Chicago's Begininngs" and Earth, Wind & Fire's "That's the Way of the World." I don't have much of a problem when the single version of a song plays. But when the edits are obvious and Chicago's song is trimmed down to the ridiculous, it's like why bother?
If there are time restrictions, don't even bother playing the songs. WOSN does feature a lot of Chicago and Earth, Wind & Fire tunes. I'd leave it there.
When we say, "Is That All There is?" about playlists, it may be about perceived lack of effort effort. To get a winning playlist requires a lot of effort and skills. We may not like some of the results but I'm discovering more & more, there are reasons it is what it is.
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There are three versions for the Chicago song. The single version is 2:47. The EWF single version is 3:12. Those are official edits,
There aren't "time restrictions" per se. They're playing the versions that were hits back in the day.
They don't promote much of anything. The imaging is basically the same handful of IDs they've run for close to a decade. It's very generic to be honest, and kind of sad that it doesn't matter.
With the development of the ability to edit on the fly, both radio stations and record labels have made edits to past hits. I have heard four different versions of "Beginnings," and two of those versions are in my collection. I have heard three different versions of Chicago's cover of the Spencer Davis song, "I'm a Man," of which I have one. There are two different versions of the Carpenters' "Ticket to Ride," and another two versions of "Top of the World," all of which were done back in the 1970s. And, with the more recently developed DCS process for creating stereo from one track, I've heard a whole lot of fairly good stereo mixes of songs that weren't recorded in stereo originally.
What I'm saying is there is a whole lot of editing of older songs going on now and not all of those edits are being done by individual radio stations.