Music stations running syndicated shows vs. automated jukebox

[vw86]

Just wanted to get a consensus here in 2025 when it's the major exception rather than the rule to have anyone live on the weekends, what are everyone's thoughts on the pros/cons for a music formatted station running syndicated shows vs. just running their regular format jukebox style (with or without tracking from your weekday and/or out of market talent).

I'm thinking of shows like AT40: The 70s/80s and Rewind for Classic Hits; Time Warp, Flashback, House of Hair, Sammy Hagar's Top Rock Countdown for Classic Rock; AT40 with Seacrest for CHR & Hot AC; any of the country countdowns, etc. etc.

Is there still enough P1 audience for these shows to make it worth losing 'x' minutes per hour of inventory? Do these shows typically show an uptick in meter exposure in PPM markets? Just curious what the overall opinions are in an era where these shows are still distributed but not the appointment tune in they were in the 70s-80s-90s.

 

[TheBigA]

Keep in mind that it's not always just about ratings. There are other factors that determine if a station carries one of those shows. A lot of it has to do with the presentation of those shows, which are typically theme-oriented. These kinds of shows give the station something to promote during the week. If it's a big name show, such as Seacrest, it gives sales a brand that the sponsor can identify with. That makes it a different kind of sale than strictly ratings. The shows usually feature interviews with artists the local station can't get. It's another tool in the toolbox that the station can use to differentiate it from Spotify.

 

[K.M. Richards]

Also, for a lot of stations, the weekend ratings are not a significant addition to a station's overall ratings. In those cases, adding a syndicated program that attracts the same demographics as the regular format can enhance the weekend numbers.

A real-world example: On the station I consult/program in Albuquerque (KRKE) we run American Top 40: The 80s twice on Sunday (once in the morning and an encore in the evening). On at least one occasion, Nielsen advised that they had received a diary with "Casey Kasem" written in during the morning hours. We got credit for that listening.

To our audience, Casey is a "big name" ... even though he passed away over a decade ago. We capitalize on that by rerunning some of the AT40 specials from the 1980s on Independence Day, Labor Day, Thanksgiving, Christmas, and New Year's Eve (Premiere is very generous in providing those to affiliates for such use). I even have one promo voiced by Casey's daughter, Kerri, for the tribute show she and her brother Mike hosted after their father's death ... and no other affiliate has that track.

 

[PTBoardOp93]

Is there still enough P1 audience for these shows to make it worth losing 'x' minutes per hour of inventory?

The paid spot load is usually so low on weekends that it doesn't matter.

Do these shows typically show an uptick in meter exposure in PPM markets? Just curious what the overall opinions are in an era where these shows are still distributed but not the appointment tune in they were in the 70s-80s-90s.

The ratings don't matter at all. No client is specifically planning to buy the time windows when these shows usually air.

Using AT40 with Ryan Seacrest as an example, I looked at the run time for all the stations in the larger New York markets. In NYC, Binghamton, Syracuse, Buffalo/Rochester, Erie (PA), Albany, and Burlington(VT)/Plattsburgh, all start the show at 7am on Sunday. If the show did attract a larger-than-usual audience, that wouldn't be the preferred timeslot.

I'm not sure it was ever the case that these shows were appointment listening. I only remember them airing in fringe times, like early Saturday/Sunday morning or 8pm-midnight Saturday, growing up in the 90s.

 

[davideduardo]

The paid spot load is usually so low on weekends that it doesn't matter.

This is a major point, as few agency buys use weekends... and Sunday in particular. I had a "Hot AC" in a top 20 market years ago where there was so little Sunday business we went commercial free all day Sunday; the idea was to "lock in " radios to us when Monday rolled around.

The ratings don't matter at all. No client is specifically planning to buy the time windows when these shows usually air.

Usually, they run Sunday early morning or evening, with some on Saturday evening. The lowest persons using radio / PUMM of the week.

I'm not sure it was ever the case that these shows were appointment listening. I only remember them airing in fringe times, like early Saturday/Sunday morning or 8pm-midnight Saturday, growing up in the 90s.

In many cases, a station preferred this kind of show over the part-time weekend announcer who was generally not very good and prone to saying the wrong stuff.

 

[vw86]

I still hear large market stations running something like Classic AT40 and running sponsor tags in and out of spot sets. Would this be something that is added on for a larger client as a courtesy?

Back when I was on air in a tiny, tiny market we ran Casey (this was when he was still on the air doing a current based show) and I know it was part of the sales pitch one sheet for the station.

 

[TheBigA]

I still hear large market stations running something like Classic AT40 and running sponsor tags in and out of spot sets. Would this be something that is added on for a larger client as a courtesy?

No. The sponsor wants brand association with Casey. That's the sales pitch. When the station promotes the show, they include a mention of the sponsor. If the host is still alive, the host can read the sponsor IDs. Obviously not possible with Casey anymore.

 

[PTBoardOp93]

I still hear large market stations running something like Classic AT40 and running sponsor tags in and out of spot sets. Would this be something that is added on for a larger client as a courtesy?

They're probably paying for that, and they are probably also a larger advertiser.

Sales in tiny markets is very different than large markets. In a small market, you want plans that scale to any budget, because that $75 a week advertiser is going to be a measurable percentage of your sales for the month, and the number of possible sponsors is smaller. I've done ads for individual car washes, gas stations, florists, dentists, and realtors.

That $75/wk advertiser isn't going to be a drop in the ocean for KRTH.

 

[oldvnewschool]

I'm curious; Where does Rick Dees Weekly Top 40 would fall into this category? The fact that he has long surpassed Casey Kasem, and maybe even Ryan Seacrest is amazing. His show tends to air all over the place on various stations. Sometimes early Saturday/Sunday Mornings; Saturday/Sunday Afternoons; And a couple of stations in the midwest (KCHA & KSKU) airs them on Saturday Night. Granted he will never be as popular as he was in the late 1980's and 1990's; But he has both current and classic programming scattered everywhere.

 

[K.M. Richards]

As far as I know, Dees is a one man band. He still has a deal with iHeart for two streaming channels ... one for the current-based shows and one for the "Decades" reruns. But he's not in markets of any significant size in terms of the broadcast version ... "scattered" is probably a good term.

It's probably running on the stations it has as affiliates for the same reasons as stated earlier ... better that than a part-timer who doesn't sound even half as good. I suspect Dees is getting all the stations that Premiere rejects for AT40.

 

[PTBoardOp93]

I'm curious; Where does Rick Dees Weekly Top 40 would fall into this category? The fact that he has long surpassed Casey Kasem, and maybe even Ryan Seacrest is amazing.

Surpassed by what metric?
According to his syndicator, Compass Radio, Dees show is heard on only 250 stations across all four countdown programs he produces (CHR, AC, and a couple of throwback shows for classic hits). I could not find a single affiliate in the top 50 markets. The syndicator's promotional material says he has a few, but I checked all of the web sites for the listed stations, and none listed his show. More than half of the stations no longer air a CHR or AC format.

 

[oldvnewschool]

Surpassed by what metric?
According to his syndicator, Compass Radio, Dees show is heard on only 250 stations across all four countdown programs he produces (CHR, AC, and a couple of throwback shows for classic hits). I could not find a single affiliate in the top 50 markets. The syndicator's promotional material says he has a few, but I checked all of the web sites for the listed stations, and none listed his show. More than half of the stations no longer air a CHR or AC format.

In terms of longevity compared to Kasem and depending on if he renews with iHeart again Seacrest; Also is there a place to find which stations air Rick Dees shows and its affiliates? Or is it by a radio station web site by site basis. I generally am able to listen to his show on Saturday Afternoons while listen to AT 40 on Sundays. I with to Dees whenever AT40 has a celebrity guest host because those shows are terrible. That said I do agree with the fact he collectively is not anywhere close to what he had in the 1990's and 2000's. in terms of stations.

 

[vw86]

I think the only Top 50 market Dees is still in is Kansas City. And there's a reason for that. His show and style still sounds stuck in the 90s, but he's now a guy in his 70s. And his 80s/90s replays are fun for radio folks, but kind of cringe inducing for today's listeners.

Meanwhile, the Casey replays are probably on half or more of the Top 50 markets. Which leads into my original question - clearly stations find value in these shows over simply running their regular programming in the fringe hours. I just wasn't sure how that value translates into sales and Nielsen numbers.

 

[nathannah]

His show and style still sounds stuck in the 90s, but he's now a guy in his 70s. And his 80s/90s replays are fun for radio folks, but kind of cringe inducing for today's listeners.

He literally spoiled the countdown at the beginning of this weekend's show, saying that Alex Warren/Ordinary was #1 while joking that Teddy Swim's #20 had been on the chart for so long. The care he had in the 90s also seemed to disappear several years ago. WLKN where I hear him (between Sheboygan/Manitowoc) merely has him as filler on Saturdays in the late afternoons between classic AT40 and Delilah.

 

[SomeRadioGuy]

I prefer running syndicated music shows vs just regurgitating automated music. Random music to "keep the tubes modulated" has no real value to a station like mine except have something on air. I mean, its music people like but thats what spotify and pandora are for.

I have a yacht rock music show, a statewide satellite/ip fed show hosted in anchorage thats classic country. I have a car/truck repair show.... that had been car talk, but it went away.. and i filled it with automated music just to have something there.. but i wanted something of value.

 

[TheBigA]

Which leads into my original question - clearly stations find value in these shows over simply running their regular programming in the fringe hours. I just wasn't sure how that value translates into sales and Nielsen numbers.

AT40 is an iHeart show. If you're owned by iHeart, you carry either the Seacrest current show or the Casey rerun. That's why it's on so many stations.

As I said in my previous post, these decisions are not always made because of local ratings.

 

[K.M. Richards]

AT40 is an iHeart show. If you're owned by iHeart, you carry either the Seacrest current show or the Casey rerun. That's why it's on so many stations.

I checked my portfolio of monitored Classic Hits stations at Mediabase (my Excel spreadsheet list of same includes market rank, ownership, and AT40 carriage) and in the top 50 markets, the AT40 80s affiliates in San Francisco, Seattle, Minneapolis/St. Paul, Portland, St. Louis, Salt Lake City, Pittsburgh, and Milwaukee are owned by iHeart. That's eight.

As for the suggestion that Casey replays are airing in half of the top 50 markets, I only show six more stations running the 80s version, so there would have to be eleven more (which would have to be airing the 70s version to count), which I think is unlikely as the total station count for the earlier decade's shows has been declining rapidly in recent years. I would especially note that San Francisco (market #6) is the highest ranked market carrying the 80s show ... and that's likely because iHeart's Classic Hits station there is heavily 80s. In fact, you have to get to market #25 before you get to the largest market where the station carrying the show is non-iHeart owned.

 

[radiofan2023]

I think the only Top 50 market Dees is still in is Kansas City. And there's a reason for that. His show and style still sounds stuck in the 90s, but he's now a guy in his 70s.

But his show moved from Saturday mornings on KMXV to Sunday mornings at some point in the last 20-25 years. If AT40 is on in KC, I have no idea what station, since there aren't any Iheart stations in the market.

 

[K.M. Richards]

If AT40 is on in KC, I have no idea what station, since there aren't any Iheart stations in the market.

AT40: The 80s runs on KCMO-FM/94.9, owned by Cumulus. As their website doesn't include it under "shows" I have no idea what time slot it runs in, but I do know it runs because when I download airplay monitors from Mediabase the first thing I do is cross-reference the songs from the weekend covered by the monitor and if KCMO wasn't running the show there would be a column of zeroes for those songs on their monitor.

 

[TheBigA]

If AT40 is on in KC, I have no idea what station, since there aren't any Iheart stations in the market.

According to the AT40 site, the show is void in KC. Closest markets are Columbia or Joplin.