I have what could be a controversial question, but it's something I'm wondering all the same. Are there any stations out there that operate as a community station -- IE. letting members of the community on the air, and/or, running lots of shows that wouldn't fit on a commercial station -- IE. Classical, Jazz, ETC, but whom operate commercially? If so, I'd love to know about any such station, for as far as I know, while LPFMs and non-coms need to operate non-commercially, I don't think, anyway, there is a mandate in the US that if you are running a community station that this format alone mandates non-com operation. Therefore, I believe, if a community group has a commercial license, they can, in theory, operate a community volunteer powered station commercially. Am I wrong? If not, do any such stations exist? Thank you for any info.
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Commercial Community Radio Stations?
- Thread starter radiogirlsk
- Start date
There are a few brave souls out there doing community radio as a commercial radio station. Here are three:
KVSF Sante Fe, NM
KVSF 101.5 The Cat - SantaFe.com
Steam KVSF 101.5 The Cat, courtesy of Hutton Broadcasting. Listen to free jazz with big band, Latin, swing, and torch radio play all day and night.
santafe.com
WKWF Key West, FL
KRML Carmel CA
There are no format restrictions on radio. You can make your on-air format whatever even if that is Mongolian Throat Singing 24/7. There was a station that once aired whale sounds around the clock.
Would a community station be commercial viable? I'll never say never but I think a pretty good rule of thumb is if it's not being done already and replicated in commercial radio, then probably it would not be successful. There have been many, many commercial stations trying to quit bleeding red ink. Virtually everything has been tried, likely multiple times.
Community radio with volunteers would be hard to monetize because advertisers are buying into certain shows that may or may not be around next week. One station I worked had some high school kids that did an independent rock program of mostly self-released material. A friend (dad of one kid) found a local business catering to that group who paid a premium to be the exclusive sponsor. It paid the time and offered a generous profit. The kids didn't stay with it more than 6 months and although they tried replacements, none stuck around and the show ended. I guess it was successful with listeners at the high school they attended but likely nobody else knew of them.
The Big A mentions time brokered stations and Christian stations. While volunteer driven community stations generally do not allow any conservative talk or Christian programming from volunteers, Time Brokered are generally various ethnic groups buying time to run a commercial program for their community the programmer can profit from. The Christian station sells time to ministries, international, national, regional and local. Some have a focus of being full gospel or not full gospel (full gospel exercises speaking in tongues and other such things of various degrees while not full gospel teaches these 'gifts' were for the day of Pentecost and not carried over through today). In other words, time brokered and Christian stations have only a partial community and non-volunteer focus. However, these stations allow access to radio for a modest fee.
Would a community station be commercial viable? I'll never say never but I think a pretty good rule of thumb is if it's not being done already and replicated in commercial radio, then probably it would not be successful. There have been many, many commercial stations trying to quit bleeding red ink. Virtually everything has been tried, likely multiple times.
Community radio with volunteers would be hard to monetize because advertisers are buying into certain shows that may or may not be around next week. One station I worked had some high school kids that did an independent rock program of mostly self-released material. A friend (dad of one kid) found a local business catering to that group who paid a premium to be the exclusive sponsor. It paid the time and offered a generous profit. The kids didn't stay with it more than 6 months and although they tried replacements, none stuck around and the show ended. I guess it was successful with listeners at the high school they attended but likely nobody else knew of them.
The Big A mentions time brokered stations and Christian stations. While volunteer driven community stations generally do not allow any conservative talk or Christian programming from volunteers, Time Brokered are generally various ethnic groups buying time to run a commercial program for their community the programmer can profit from. The Christian station sells time to ministries, international, national, regional and local. Some have a focus of being full gospel or not full gospel (full gospel exercises speaking in tongues and other such things of various degrees while not full gospel teaches these 'gifts' were for the day of Pentecost and not carried over through today). In other words, time brokered and Christian stations have only a partial community and non-volunteer focus. However, these stations allow access to radio for a modest fee.
And I just remembered one more. KHUM has been around for years. They do a freeform music format focused on Humboldt County, with a ton of community programming.
There are a few counties in California that are outliers when it comes to formats. Humbolt is one. Simply put, you would be hard pressed to find the same success n the format in other locales. It's much like places in Florida where older songs that have 'aged out' of the desirable demographics can do well because of all the retired population.
While there are a few exceptions (as pointed out above), the fact is that, in the U.S. at least, heavier financial pressures are placed on you if you are a commercial radio operation than if you're not. Put another way, noncommercial outlets, including religious noncommercial outlets, do get some breaks when it comes to Internet streaming fees, and I believe they have some leeway with ASCAP and BMI as well. If I were running a non-profit operation, I would think that, barring some other circumstances that dictated I run things differently, I would prefer to run a noncommercial radio station than a commercial one.
I should note that the rules that are used by noncommercial licensees in the U.S. are not necessarily the same outside of the U.S. For example, both the UK and Australia do allow their so-called "Noncommercial" stations to run some advertisements for small local businesses.
We had an LPFM out-up-over here in NEPA for a while.
Snots and giggles.
Easy-listening Standards. 8AM to 5PM. Done by announcers who were all raised on Top 40. Mostly off Ots Juke (over 450 liners) but with a live show middays. It paid the freight (or what there was of the freight). We were listener- and underwriting-supported. but 'sounded' as commecial as we could get it. Played actual commercials at times -- those good sounding ones -- but accepted no revenue from them.
We did okay for a couple of years. Everyone on the staff is still speaking.
Things is: We were the only such game in town (median age same as West Virginia's and two years older than Florida's at the time). And -- fortunately -- in an unrated market.
Snots and giggles.
Easy-listening Standards. 8AM to 5PM. Done by announcers who were all raised on Top 40. Mostly off Ots Juke (over 450 liners) but with a live show middays. It paid the freight (or what there was of the freight). We were listener- and underwriting-supported. but 'sounded' as commecial as we could get it. Played actual commercials at times -- those good sounding ones -- but accepted no revenue from them.
We did okay for a couple of years. Everyone on the staff is still speaking.
Things is: We were the only such game in town (median age same as West Virginia's and two years older than Florida's at the time). And -- fortunately -- in an unrated market.
You can advertise whoever you like on a UK community radio station - if you can get Tesla to buy time, you can advertise Tesla, it doesn't have to be a small local business. The rule is that above £30,000, only 50% of your revenue can come from ads. Up to £30,000, you can sell as much advertising space as you want - above £30,000 it has to be matched with funding from some other source.
You also have to be a non-profit to operate, and there are requirements on local programming that don't apply to commercial stations, but the lines are very blurred these days.
The limit was recently upped from £15,000:
New measures to generate growth and greater financial sustainability in community radio
Advertising and sponsorship limits to be removed for the majority of community stations, allowing them to generate more money to reinvest in their operations
Do some full-service stations count? There are some full-service FMs and AMs in very rural areas that have multiple formats (country, classic hits, adult contemporary, specialty music on weekends), plus a few may air news/talk programming and farm news. When Rush Limbaugh was still alive, I think he had some affiliates that weren't necessarily news/talk. They just aired his show during the midday hours and had other music/full-service programming at other times.
While LPFM's can be considered community radio stations, they are non commercial. The OP is asking specifically about commercial stations that do an eclectic community radio format. Another example of this is KYMN Northfield, MN which does a AAA type of format with music and community specialty shows.
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@KillowattKat
Point taken.
My post was a wordy way of saying that an LPFM in the unrated sticks has an advantage. Just in the event of a person or group pondering a target goal or 'upgrade', I just threw in a few other factors about exclusitivity being a benefit that should be gleaned in every possible case where there exists elbow room.
73
Point taken.
My post was a wordy way of saying that an LPFM in the unrated sticks has an advantage. Just in the event of a person or group pondering a target goal or 'upgrade', I just threw in a few other factors about exclusitivity being a benefit that should be gleaned in every possible case where there exists elbow room.
73
radiogirlsk - In the United States, let's define Community Radio Format and hours/days.
First, there is not one commercal successful 'free-for-all' volunteer radio station.
What I have seen done with some limited succxess is stations with some volunteers at night and on weekends who ge to do their own show. Weekdays 6 to 6 are a mass appeal music format with lots of local information. I hink you see the plan: daytimes of weekdays for selling commercials, building the largest audience possible and such. Nights and weekends are for speciality shows.
This does not mean night and weekend shows are not' popular. A south Texas station has 6 to 8pm weekday and Saturday morning polka shows that are sold out. Volunteer shows are scheduled according to auduience. No death metal at 6am Sunday but perhaps Classical or Christian and no bluegrass show at 10pm Friday but rather 6 or 7 Satuday morning.
First, there is not one commercal successful 'free-for-all' volunteer radio station.
What I have seen done with some limited succxess is stations with some volunteers at night and on weekends who ge to do their own show. Weekdays 6 to 6 are a mass appeal music format with lots of local information. I hink you see the plan: daytimes of weekdays for selling commercials, building the largest audience possible and such. Nights and weekends are for speciality shows.
This does not mean night and weekend shows are not' popular. A south Texas station has 6 to 8pm weekday and Saturday morning polka shows that are sold out. Volunteer shows are scheduled according to auduience. No death metal at 6am Sunday but perhaps Classical or Christian and no bluegrass show at 10pm Friday but rather 6 or 7 Satuday morning.
@bturner: I'd be very interested in some of those stations you speak. They almost sound like the type A. community statioions that exist in Canada, where a format is featured by day, and volunteer shows exist during nighttime and weekend hours.
If you know of any such stations here in the US, I'd love to check them out. I didn't know if even stations like those of which you spoke, BTurner, existed. I'd love to check some of those stations out, learn what their schedules' are, and how they operate.
Thanks.
--Radio Girl SK
The ones I know are employeed stations selling advertising. Due to location, they have specialty shows some nights and at times on weekends.
When I ran KWGH, a daytime only, we were our own breed of country that included some pop material and Red Dirt country. There was a guy that did a Spanish language program. He did it free but if he sold any ads, he got to keep 50%. We had an Urban program, a Contemporary Christian and a polka show Saurday. There were paid ministries much of Sunday morning. For all he music programs, the host was a volunteer and if they sold any ads, kept 50%. We didn't try to sell on their shows. All the shows were 2 or 3 hours weekly.
Most stations in South Texas have a polka show. Most small town Texas stations have a volunteer Christian music program early Sunday.
Just about any small town station is open to somebody doing a show for free and do a split of adverising, if they sell any (most don't). They always get time slots that are difficult to sell.
There was an FM that has been gone for years. They were on 6am to 10 pm, 7 days a week. They were English until 5pm. Then this guy volunteered to have somebody, if no him, running 4 to 10pm in Spanish with his music library. Never sold a commercial but made a bit of cash selling 50 cent requests he never told the owner about. A guy did a Contemporary Christian music show 6 to 9am Sunday. The way Mike saw it, this was payroll he didn't have to cover.
A the former KPYK in Terrell, Texas, there was a Black Gospel show for a few hours in exchange for the guy cleaning the station each week.
In each case the stations have paid employees like any other. They just have some shows where a local does a show without pay, playing what they choose. It's so common in small towns a list would be quite long.
When I ran KWGH, a daytime only, we were our own breed of country that included some pop material and Red Dirt country. There was a guy that did a Spanish language program. He did it free but if he sold any ads, he got to keep 50%. We had an Urban program, a Contemporary Christian and a polka show Saurday. There were paid ministries much of Sunday morning. For all he music programs, the host was a volunteer and if they sold any ads, kept 50%. We didn't try to sell on their shows. All the shows were 2 or 3 hours weekly.
Most stations in South Texas have a polka show. Most small town Texas stations have a volunteer Christian music program early Sunday.
Just about any small town station is open to somebody doing a show for free and do a split of adverising, if they sell any (most don't). They always get time slots that are difficult to sell.
There was an FM that has been gone for years. They were on 6am to 10 pm, 7 days a week. They were English until 5pm. Then this guy volunteered to have somebody, if no him, running 4 to 10pm in Spanish with his music library. Never sold a commercial but made a bit of cash selling 50 cent requests he never told the owner about. A guy did a Contemporary Christian music show 6 to 9am Sunday. The way Mike saw it, this was payroll he didn't have to cover.
A the former KPYK in Terrell, Texas, there was a Black Gospel show for a few hours in exchange for the guy cleaning the station each week.
In each case the stations have paid employees like any other. They just have some shows where a local does a show without pay, playing what they choose. It's so common in small towns a list would be quite long.
You'll be amused by my story of HCSP, 590 AM in Quito, Ecuador. We played "Ecuadorian National Music" which was very firmly based on the heritage of the Quechua indigenous people. In fact, we ran several hours in Quechua at 4 AM when workers on the surrounding haciendas and ranches and farms started work.
In Latin America, and particularly in the former Quechua zones, people celebrated the day of the saint they were named after even more than their actual birthday. So my station made well over half of its income selling "greetings" on a relative's saint's day. Typically, it would be "María Chasi de Maiguashca sends her love and greetings to her husband, Francisco Maiguashca on the day of his saint and dedicates this song to him...."
We had a portable desk on the sidewalk, and people lined up to buy those greetings which cost about four times what a 30" commercial cost.
We also ran messages for people in zones with no telephones or communications: "Attention on the El Porvenir Hacienda in the Miistral Parish of the Department of Sangolqui. The boss arrives today at noon on the Expreso Rojo bus from Quito. Take a donkey to town to pick him up."
And birth notices. And death notices. And marriage notices. All cash, with a big box of small bills nearly every day.
When I was in South Texas, the stations raked it in on Mother's Day. Back around 1980 our AM counterpart sold quarter hours to families for their Moms, etc. In 1981 it was $50 (minimum wage was $1.80) and the day was sold out long before Mother's Day. The station I wnt to charged $20 per quarter hour for Sunday morning time.