Las Vegas KMZQ 670 general discussion

[Kent]

What surprises me is that the OP is posting under his ham radio calls, so I would presume he knows the FCC wouldn't stand for that.

So why ask?

I interpreted it more as wondering if there was anything that could be done without filing a permit with the FCC.

I suppose it's possible the engineer started paying more attention to the signal or that the signal could've been running lower power for a few weeks before getting back to normal. I can't remember how long you can run at reduced power without filing an STA, but I know you can do it for at least a brief time.

I don't know much about handling an AM signal, but I know compressing the signal can help the audio of an FM at the expense of the signal range. Most people think the compressed signal sounds better, though I've heard a few people complain about the audio quality.

 

[secondchoice]

I'm wondering if they're even using full nighttime power. Could bad groundwave conductivity account for an almost non existent signal this far into its nighttime coverage area? I couldn't see anything on FCCdata about it an official request to lower power further.

What time at night are you trying to listen? There use to be several AM stations without translators that are licensed for 24 hour service, that go off 11pm till 6AM. If there is no revenue why waste electricity?
A directional station usually has preset power levels. If you do try to run a "different" power you have to "refigure" the settings on the "phaser equipment". I don't know of an engineer who would work up something that most likely would be illegal. They haven't filed for an STA lately according to FCCdata.org*. I have seen several STAs issued by the FCC that were 25% non directional which could be 150 watts assuming there is an "issue" with the nighttime service.

* I am not sure if the FCC site is up to date yet.

 

[KC8UOK]

What time at night are you trying to listen? There use to be several AM stations without translators that are licensed for 24 hour service, that go off 11pm till 6AM. If there is no revenue why waste electricity?

Oh it's 24 hours. I can confirm it's transmitting via audio stream. And I can also confirm they're running adverts even overnight.

I interpreted it more as wondering if there was anything that could be done without filing a permit with the FCC.

That's exactly it.

 

[SomeRadioGuy]

Oh it's 24 hours. I can confirm it's transmitting via audio stream. And I can also confirm they're running adverts even overnight.


That's exactly it.

Audio stremaing provides absolutely bupkus in regards to the AM signal

 

[ted chittenden]

Audio stremaing provides absolutely bupkus in regards to the AM signal

Though what you say is quite true, I have personally heard KMZQ-AM on my Panasonic Walkman-style battery-powered receiver at 3:00am on both a recent Friday and Saturday morning during thunderstorms that knocked out power to my Phoenix, AZ residence. The bigger question is why the OP is unable to receive the station at his residence and my only reply is (and I have not verified this) that KMZQ may be utilizing a directional antenna away from his residence during evening hours. Keep in mind that the station, which I believe was the last station to sign on on this frequency in the 48 contiguous states, has to protect the signals of several other radio stations, most notably WSCR in Chicago; KIRN in Los Angeles; and KBOI in Boise.

 

[KC8UOK]

The bigger question is why the OP is unable to receive the station at his residence and my only reply is (and I have not verified this) that KMZQ may be utilizing a directional antenna away from his residence during evening hours. Keep in mind that the station, which I believe was the last station to sign on on this frequency in the 48 contiguous states, has to protect the signals of several other radio stations, most notably WSCR in Chicago; KIRN in Los Angeles; and KBOI in Boise.

This is the most puzzling. I live Southeast of the transmitter. Couple miles east of South Point. Well within it's nighttime contour. LA is Southwest and Boise is North east. Chicago is Northeast. So it should be beaming right at me. It kinda has to in order to protect those other stations. And it's not my HOA either. I can drive around and it's still been historically terrible at night.

 

[davideduardo]

What time at night are you trying to listen? There use to be several AM stations without translators that are licensed for 24 hour service, that go off 11pm till 6AM. If there is no revenue why waste electricity?}

The reasons why many stations went to 24 hour operation back in the 60's are two and they are interdependent: first, equipment was so much better that it did not need constant maintenance and, second, programmers felt that being available at any time meant "your radio is on our frequency the next time you turn it on."

Whether it was feeding the baby, an early shift, home late after a trip, etc., we wanted to capture those listeners and not force them to another station.

A directional station usually has preset power levels. If you do try to run a "different" power you have to "refigure" the settings on the "phaser equipment".

If you reduce power into a directional antenna, you do not have to re-tune the phasor. The phaser will create the same pattern with less coverage. Retuning a phasor is often a multi-day process coupled with lots of field strength readings and an FCC filing.

(A "phaser" is a Star Wars weapon. A "phasor" is the system in a directional antenna that divides and "phases" the signal to send to each tower. End of pedantic clarification. 😏)

I don't know of an engineer who would work up something that most likely would be illegal. They haven't filed for an STA lately according to FCCdata.org*. I have seen several STAs issued by the FCC that were 25% non directional which could be 150 watts assuming there is an "issue" with the nighttime service.

Good point. Often the non-directional power is equivalent to the sharpest null in the pattern. It can be as low as double digits.

 

[KC8UOK]

(A "phaser" is a Star Wars weapon. A "phasor" is the system in a directional antenna that divides and "phases" the signal to send to each tower. End of pedantic clarification. 😏)

Good point. Often the non-directional power is equivalent to the sharpest null in the pattern. It can be as low as double digits.

Oh now we gotta fight. Phasers are Star Trek not Star Wars. Though to your credit you didn't get on national TV and use the phrase 'Jedi Mind Meld' like Obama did years ago

 

[davideduardo]

Oh now we gotta fight. Phasers are Star Trek not Star Wars. Though to your credit you didn't get on national TV and use the phrase 'Jedi Mind Meld' like Obama did years ago

😏

 

[ted chittenden]

This is the most puzzling. I live Southeast of the transmitter. Couple miles east of South Point. Well within it's nighttime contour. LA is Southwest and Boise is North east. Chicago is Northeast. So it should be beaming right at me. It kinda has to in order to protect those other stations. And it's not my HOA either. I can drive around and it's still been historically terrible at night.

One station that I did not mention but which does come into play here is KLTT licensed to Commerce (Denver), CO, on the 670 frequency. Since it came on the air before KMZQ, KMZQ has to protect that frequency as well.

This is the most puzzling. I live Southeast of the transmitter. Couple miles east of South Point. Well within it's nighttime contour. LA is Southwest and Boise is North east. Chicago is Northeast. So it should be beaming right at me. It kinda has to in order to protect those other stations. And it's not my HOA either. I can drive around and it's still been historically terrible at night.

A couple of things. First, there is one other station that KMZQ has to protect at night that I failed to mention: KLTT licensed to Commerce City (Denver), CO. When I was able to receive KMZQ's skywave, it was with my Walkman-style receiver pointed northwest/southeast. With the receiver pointed southwest/northeast, it was KLTT I could hear.

That last point is very important for reception purposes. I cannot hear, from my Phoenix location, KIRN from Simi Valley at night, though my location is east and a little south of that transmitter. Why? Because KIRN also has to direct its nighttime signal away from me in order to protect, not KMZQ nor KLTT but WSCR.

The point about KIRN's nighttime signal being directed away from me (and certainly from you in Las Vegas) suggests to me that KMZQ may be using a different directional output at night. (While radio-locator.com says the signal is non-directional at night, @Michi's sight says it is directional and I'm going to side with the latter here). Now, I'm guessing that the nighttime signal of KMZQ (which is only 600 watts) is probably directed west to northwest, say towards Eureka, CA. Depending on the location of the transmitter and towers (I literally can't see the maps), that should explain why the groundwave of KMZQ has a hard time making it to your location at night.

 

[KC8UOK]

The point about KIRN's nighttime signal being directed away from me (and certainly from you in Las Vegas) suggests to me that KMZQ may be using a different directional output at night. (While radio-locator.com says the signal is non-directional at night, @Michi's sight says it is directional and I'm going to side with the latter here). Now, I'm guessing that the nighttime signal of KMZQ (which is only 600 watts) is probably directed west to northwest, say towards Eureka, CA. Depending on the location of the transmitter and towers (I literally can't see the maps), that should explain why the groundwave of KMZQ has a hard time making it to your location at night.

Radio Locator isn't super reliable. FCCDATA on the other hand makes more interesting reading. I threw the info into ChatGPT because I'm not techy enough to understand all the info and it seemed to say I'm right in the path of its beam. Or very close to it and the FCCDATA map appears to confirm it.

https://fccdata.org/?facid=&call=Kmzq&ccode=1&city=&state=&country=US&zip=&arn=&party=&lmspf=&lmspl=&party_type=ELMFA&latd=&lond=&lang=en

Zoom into the map and you'll see Silverado Ranch South of Harry Reid Airport. That's me.

 

[secondchoice]

If you reduce power into a directional antenna, you do not have to re-tune the phasor. The phaser will create the same pattern with less coverage. Retuning a phasor is often a multi-day process coupled with lots of field strength readings and an FCC filing.

I had friends who worked at WFLI in the early 1970's when they were still using an old used (from NYC) transmitter (severally modified it was the best AM station I ever heard to play music. Pretty sure they and all the other stations in Chattanooga were really really close to the 10 khz limit) There was a rare brown out during a cold snap. They had a really old phaser (everything was old but well maintained) and when the power dropped to around 85%(volts times amps on the transmitter ) they were "out of tolerance". 5 minutes later the brownout was over and everything was fine.

 

[secondchoice]

There was an engineer in Cookeville who told me (jokingly ) that direction systems were based on "evil magic."

 

[boiseengineer]

There was an engineer in Cookeville who told me (jokingly ) that direction systems were based on "evil magic."

Using scrap towers cobbled together.
FCC got on them early for not having them painted properly.

 

[secondchoice]

Using scrap towers cobbled together.
FCC got on them early for not having them painted properly.

Which stations? IIRC there isn't a directional AM between Nashville and Knoxville.

 

[secondchoice]

The more I think about it, I would get a strobe lighting or LED kit that would make the FFA happy with unpainted towers.

 

[SomeRadioGuy]

The more I think about it, I would get a strobe lighting or LED kit that would make the FFA happy with unpainted towers.

why would you light one that doesnt have to be? if its unpainted, it likely doesnt have a panting requirement.

You're adding liability and expense.

I have a 60 footer thats not painted or lighted, but registration was required due to proximity to the airport runway.

 

[boiseengineer]

Which stations? IIRC there isn't a directional AM between Nashville and Knoxville.

Subject here is KMZQ Las Vegas

 

[AlligatorClipz]

This is the most puzzling. I live Southeast of the transmitter. Couple miles east of South Point. Well within it's nighttime contour. LA is Southwest and Boise is North east. Chicago is Northeast. So it should be beaming right at me. It kinda has to in order to protect those other stations. And it's not my HOA either. I can drive around and it's still been historically terrible at night.

Andrew, you live in an busy apartment complex with urban EMI and RFI, stucco and chickenwire walls. You might also be in a skywave null or suffering from skywave/groundwave multipath. Nothing has changed with the station, it is operating at it's FCC licensed power. There is nothing to be done about improving it's coverage without licensed changes. That facility was a compromise when it was built, one of Tim Cutforth's shoehorn creations. Deal with it.

 

[seattlesarchiebunker]

Andrew, you live in an busy apartment complex with urban EMI and RFI, stucco and chickenwire walls. You might also be in a skywave null or suffering from skywave/groundwave multipath. Nothing has changed with the station, it is operating at it's FCC licensed power. There is nothing to be done about improving it's coverage without licensed changes. That facility was a compromise when it was built, one of Tim Cutforth's shoehorn creations. Deal with it.

I will gladly admit, as a transplant from more temperate climates (I’ll let you guess from where), you are not prepared for certain things in the desert like how much stucco destroys an AM signal. You get better reception driving in a tunnel!

I live about a mile and within line of sight from a 1000 watt AM daytimer’s tower. It’s mostly inaudible inside my stucco house. Not much nighttime reception in the house…get 10 feet off the porch and you’re able to listen/DX like a normal human.

Kinda like getting dry skin within 5 minutes after you get out the shower or the fierce winds in winter…the powers that be don’t tell you about these things before you move to Southern NV/NW AZ!