I have An Idea

[K.M. Richards]

It doesn't, but call letters are assigned at the Federal level, not the state level. 73.3550 is an FCC rule. I can no more use an existing broadcast call on a Part 15 station than I can use my own ham call. If I tried the latter, I'd get nailed for being out of band.

I buy the second part of your argument, Keith, because that would be you, as the licensed holder of that amateur call sign, using same in a band that is not authorized for that service.

That's a different perspective from the "confusion" referred to in 73.3350, as you cited. I could see the Michigan station having a claim if the carrier current station was in the same geographical area. To me, it's no different than the number of cable television local origination channels in the 1970s and 1980s that called themselves "KABL-TV" or "KBLE-TV"; unless the cable system was in or near Oakland or Seattle, where's the possibility of someone thinking those were affiliated with the radio stations in those cities?

 

[TheBigA]

Yup. Some of my thinking was maybe I can, essentially, get together with some other Part 15 hobbyists and pool some resources.

Sure, why not? Although my sense of most part 15ers is they're basically individualists who do their own thing their own way.

I guess as long as it's informal with no requirements, they won't object.

 

[KeithE4]

That's a different perspective from the "confusion" referred to in 73.3350, as you cited. I could see the Michigan station having a claim if the carrier current station was in the same geographical area. To me, it's no different than the number of cable television local origination channels in the 1970s and 1980s calling themselves "KABL-TV" or "KBLE-TV".

The difference is that Carrier Current AM stations are intentional radiators under 15.221 (maximum field strength is 15 uV/m at 47715/f meters, where f is in kHz, which is why most of them are at the low end of the band).

Cable equipment is considered unintentional radiators. The signals are confined to the cable, and cannot (theoretically, anyway) be picked up over the air. If Podunk Cable Public Access is using call letters like KABL-TV, nobody outside of cable subscribers should ever see it. And if they do, the cable company is required to fix it.

 

[K.M. Richards]

Agree to disagree before this thread goes hopelessly down a siding as happens too much around here already.

 

[KeithE4]

Maybe some or all of this thread should be moved to the LPFM and Community Radio board, since there's no specific Part 15 board. It's Lance's call.

 

[KilowattKat]

They could have gotten a similar letter from out west! My brother has told me often of the snowy, midwinter 1983-84 day when the WVIC crew decided to do several hours of programming as WVIC's "sister station," KVIC, in sunny southern California. Time announcements in PST, summer-themed music, weather and surfing conditions reports, etc. Sophomoric as hell, but hey, he was only a freshman!

What a clever idea for a stunt! 😊

 

[CTListener]

What a clever idea for a stunt! 😊

Ithaca had, and still has, a great communications program. His WVIC colleagues went on to be DJs, PDs, newscasters and sportscasters. He wound up in IT -- tele-health, specifically -- after time in various video production jobs, while his freshman-year roommate went on to be ... Karl Ravech!

 

[yeoldeschool]

Anyway, my idea is as follows: how about a sort of "micro-network" that small, Part-15 stations can become affiliates of?

Since the 1980s, there have been various political networks distributing themselves on C- and Ku-band satellite for supporters to relay to broader audiences via their privately operated part 15 transmitters. So your idea isn't new.

The problem is, it worked primarily during the era of significant in-home radio listening. A part 15 network probably wouldn't be viable today simply because most radio listening is now in the car, and legal part 15 FM signal footprints are the arch nemesis of mobile listeners. AM part 15 signals can cover a mile or so with the right antenna and grounding system, but modern AM reception challenges would probably cancel out a big chunk of that gain.

The only practical applications I can imagine for part 15 stations today (and therefore for any networks servicing them) would be places like campgrounds, where AM/FM radio-equipped campervans and RVs set up for the night, and apartment building-style retirement homes where lots of internet-agnostic folks from the era of at-home radio listening can live within the boundaries of a part 15 signal -- and where their only mobility is by walkers and wheelchairs down to the dining hall each night.

 

[Mark Roberts]

I don't know if anyone else sees the irony of college age students running an AM radio station. 😂

Let me introduce you to KVCU in Boulder, Colorado, normally with 5,000 watts but currently at 1,000 due to a lightning strike. By early next year, it's expected to be back at normal power with a new transmitter, including HD.

KVCU Radio 1190 – 1190 AM Boulder & 92.9 FM Denver

1190.radio

 

[Theater of My Mind]

So Theater of My Mind, please enlighten us: how do you obtain and operate a radio station, any type, without money?

You do realize that we're talking about Part 15, milliwatt-powered hobby stations, right?

You might as well ask a non-professional golfer how someone obtains a set of clubs and enters a golf course without money? The answer in both cases is, they don't. They spend their own money on the equipment and resources to do what they enjoy. Can you imagine??

I find it bizarre, but not surprising, that people like yourself, K. M. Richards, Big A and others, are incapable of comprehending this.

 

[davideduardo]

Ithaca had, and still has, a great communications program.

Back around 1962 when I was in my sophomore year in high school, I had Ithaca at the top of my college list, along with Ripon College and Wisconsin. Then I decided that I had enough of high school and just dropped out!

 

[davideduardo]

Ithaca had, and still has, a great communications program.

Back around 1962 when I was in my sophomore year in high school, I had Ithaca at the top of my college list, along with Ripon College and Wisconsin. Then I decided that I had enough of high school and just dropped out!

 

[TheBigA]

I find it bizarre, but not surprising, that people like yourself, K. M. Richards, Big A and others, are incapable of comprehending this.

We all know more about part 15s than you'll ever know. We're just trying to help the OP.

 

[davideduardo]

I find it bizarre, but not surprising, that people like yourself, K. M. Richards, Big A and others, are incapable of comprehending this.

The issue here is that those posters are saying "why?" about a micropower AM station when it is easier and gives much better audio to stream.

 

[CTListener]

Back around 1962 when I was in my sophomore year in high school, I had Ithaca at the top of my college list, along with Ripon College and Wisconsin. Then I decided that I had enough of high school and just dropped out!

While Syracuse alumni are all over the radio/TV field, little Ithaca has produced some diverse talents of its own -- not only ESPN's Ravech, but Robin Young, still hosting public radio's "Here and Now" at 75, and the late Robert Marella, a multi-sport athlete who went on to a career in professional wrestling (and doing play-by-play and commentary on wrestling on TV, as he's best remembered) as Gorilla Monsoon.

 

[K.M. Richards]

I find it bizarre, but not surprising, that people like yourself, K. M. Richards, Big A and others, are incapable of comprehending this.

I brought up expenses that will exist in the operation of a Part 15 station, and I said so. I find it bizarre that you overlook anything that you find does not fit the context you want.

There. We're even.

 

[KeithE4]

The issue here is that those posters are saying "why?" about a micropower AM station when it is easier and gives much better audio to stream.

A 3 meter antenna is too inefficient to be able to broadcast more than a 3 kHz bandwidth on the AM band. If that. We're talking about a 1/4 wave vertical at about 23 MHz, not 1.6. Short antenna bandwidths get narrower the shorter they are.

Streaming is better technically, but the Music Mafia will have something to say about that.

 

[cc333]

The issue here is that those posters are saying "why?" about a micropower AM station when it is easier and gives much better audio to stream.

And my answer is, "Why not!" I enjoy it, and it's fun. Maybe pros who do radio day after day as a job wouldn't so much, as they understand all the practicalities and technicalities involved. In other words, sometimes knowing too much about something can hinder one's enjoyment of it. And given how the industry is nowadays, it's not hard to feel pessimistic and jaded about the whole concept, I'd imagine.

A 3 meter antenna is too inefficient to be able to broadcast more than a 3 kHz bandwidth on the AM band. If that. We're talking about a 1/4 wave vertical at about 23 MHz, not 1.6. Short antenna bandwidths get narrower the shorter they are.

It may be inefficient, and it may seem like the sound quality would be hopelessly bad on paper, it's not so bad in practice with decent equipment, I've found. Nothing like even a modest licensed station, of course, but decent for what it is.

As for cost, I figure I'm in about $1,500 or so over 4 years. It started with a DIY transmitter kit with 40mW (at best), then I moved up to a better one for about $190 (although it unfortunately is 800mW, so not legal) and then an even nicer one for $300 that can broadcast in stereo (C-QuAM). Of course, I accidentally ordered the EU version, so it's 600mW (600 is legal there, but not here, of course).

So I saved up $600 and bought myself a ChezRadio Procaster last year. it's what I'm using now, and not only is it legal (it has the FCC ID printed right on the enclosure), but its range, even under less than ideal conditions (no ground, not fully tuned), is phenomenal compared to anything I was able to get before.

Streaming is better technically, but the Music Mafia will have something to say about that.

When I get my official stream going, I'll be using a service like Live365, so the Music Mafia will be satisfied hopefully.

Sure, why not? Although my sense of most part 15ers is they're basically individualists who do their own thing their own way.

I guess as long as it's informal with no requirements, they won't object.

Yeah, the problem is finding them. I know one out on the coast, and somebody, presumably a ham, who goes by the call sign N6VUD, runs a KiwiSDR over in Ukiah, but if there are others, I have yet to discover them.

Since the 1980s, there have been various political networks distributing themselves on C- and Ku-band satellite for supporters to relay to broader audiences via their privately operated part 15 transmitters. So your idea isn't new.

Interesting.

The only practical applications I can imagine for part 15 stations today (and therefore for any networks servicing them) would be places like campgrounds, where AM/FM radio-equipped campervans and RVs set up for the night, and apartment building-style retirement homes where lots of internet-agnostic folks from the era of at-home radio listening can live within the boundaries of a part 15 signal -- and where their only mobility is by walkers and wheelchairs down to the dining hall each night.

Maybe so.

The problem is, it worked primarily during the era of significant in-home radio listening. A part 15 network probably wouldn't be viable today simply because most radio listening is now in the car, and legal part 15 FM signal footprints are the arch nemesis of mobile listeners. AM part 15 signals can cover a mile or so with the right antenna and grounding system, but modern AM reception challenges would probably cancel out a big chunk of that gain.

Radio Sausalito uses a network of transmitters to mostly overcome that problem, at least within city limits. Such is permissible under Part 15 rules, so long as each site sticks to 15.219, but it is costlier (you need to buy each transmitter and get them properly installed, then you need to synchronize their carriers to minimize beating and phase problems, then you need to feed them all from the same source somehow. The power required to run a 100mW transmitter, at least, is negligible, so once the upfront cost of installation and configuration is done, running it costs very little).

c

 

[Miss Tuned]

Of course, I accidentally ordered the EU version, so it's 600mW (600 is legal there, but not here, of course).

All the different EU countries have their own individual radio regulations, and I'm not aware of any that have a license-free AM equivalent to Part 15 at 600mW (happy to be corrected). There are countries where you'd get away with it, like Italy where even FM licensing policy is somewhat relaxed, but that's different to it being "legal".

Of the countries that have stopped mainstream broadcasting on AM, the Netherlands is notable in that they've opened the AM band up to hobbyists on a first-come-first-served basis, there are a large number of stations up to 100W, often operating weekends only, mainly playing oldies or vintage radio recordings. You still need to apply and pay for a license and go through frequency clearance, though.

 

[b-turner]

I fully understand doing radio for fun; a hobby. I did until getting my first radio job.

Just like golf, it takes money no matter what. And that is my point. I was slammed with other posters about making it all about money.

The point is hobby or full power, it takes money, period. It takes maintaining. When the music licensing groups want their $$$ for playing music, you'll need the cash to pay them (let's hope they never find you but I know people who were found by BMI when they visited stores). Like golf, you pay for the clubs, spend money at the range to practice. You pay greens fees to actually play on a golf course. There is always a cost involved hobby or business. Yes, I am in the business. I know what it takes and I have been the one that found the dollars to meet payroll and expenses. That was my job. So, hobby or business, I just might have a better understanding of what it takes. You can say it's not about money but as one station owner told me: money is like gasoline for a car. Without gas it goes nowhere. It's just a pretty piece of metal on wheels incapable of doing what it is intended to do. I was a jock and did programming (not on the level of the names I am tossed in with on this thread) and it was generally getting a paycheck for having fun.

At last a third of Low Power FM stations go under within 5 years because there is no plan to generate money to run the station. And that's just the ones we know of.