Conservative Talk

[PTBoardOp93]

What are the ad buys for terrestrial radio vs podcast. Has that shift happened where a host can make more exclusively doing a podcast.

For many podcasts, there's no such thing as an "ad buy". The ads are placed programatically for each listener with a broker who deals with hundreds or thousands of podcasts. So I often get an ad for a local tractor dealership on the podcasts I listen to, and you might get an ad for Wegman's supermarket.

This tends to create more revenue because the advertiser will pay more to reach a specific audience, rather than a general audience. That can be regional, or it can be that the advertiser has some evidence that I am interested in buying a tractor.

There used to be many stations that were talk programming during drive times, or just aired Rush and played music during the other dayparts. Would that work today?

For argument's sake, let's imagine you wanted a local talk program 6a-9a and Glenn Beck from 9a-Noon, and classic rock the rest of the day. There's three problems with that:

1. There's probably already a classic rock station in your market, so you're starting out from a positiion of weakness, especially if you are on AM
2. Premiere Networks probably wants to clear all their shows in your market, so if someone else offers to clear Beck, Clay & Buck and Hannity, you lose
3. The sales staff has to try and sell two formats on one frequency, increasing the complexity of presenting the cluster to clients.

 

[TheBigA]

There used to be many stations that were talk programming during drive times, or just aired Rush and played music during the other dayparts. Would that work today? I dunno,

Radio was once about shows. But for the last 30 or so years it's been about format. There are stations that aren't consistent in their format, but they tend to be low rated college stations. At one time, public stations did a combination of news and classical music. But for the last 20 or so years, most of them have been one or the other.

 

[davideduardo]

Radio was once about shows. But for the last 30 or so years it's been about format.

Except for cross promoting morning shows and the like, radio has not been "about" shows since network radio collapsed in the early to mid 1950's. That is about 75 years ago.

Sure, we have had talk radio "shows" that were famous, everything from Bill Ballance and Dr Laura to Larry King and Rush Limbaugh. But in most cases, the talent complemented an overall format, from Rick Dees to Scott Shannon.

 

[ted chittenden]

Except for cross promoting morning shows and the like, radio has not been "about" shows since network radio collapsed in the early to mid 1950's. That is about 75 years ago.

Sure, we have had talk radio "shows" that were famous, everything from Bill Ballance and Dr Laura to Larry King and Rush Limbaugh. But in most cases, the talent complemented an overall format, from Rick Dees to Scott Shannon.

One slight correction. During the heyday of KHJ in the late 1960s and 1970s, the promos announcing the disc jockeys (usually voiced by Bill Drake himself) always stated that you were listening to "The Real Don Steele Show," "The Humble Harv Show," or whoever happened to be on the air at the time (unless they were filling in for someone else). No, it wasn't a "show" in the traditional sense like old-time radio was but it worked to reinforce the idea that the purpose of the disc jockey was to entertain the audience between records. (And, if you doubt me, there are plenty of airchecks of all of the KHJ jocks online that will reinforce what I've just stated.)

 

[ted chittenden]

Maybe we could try to go back to running hosts/programs that are actually interesting and entertaining to listen to, instead of trying to have 24 hour talk stations that will air pretty much anyone or anything just to fill the time? There used to be many stations that were talk programming during drive times, or just aired Rush and played music during the other dayparts. Would that work today? I dunno, but there's a lot of talk stations just running psa's in all the breaks to fill the space, so they aren't making money with what they're doing now. Including Civic Media in Wisconsin. The only market they actually have advertising and ratings in is Madison. They've already switched several stations back to music.

Up until recently, KAJO (1270 kHz) in Grants Pass, OR, was doing that very thing. However, I think it switched to an all-AC format after Rush Limbaugh's death.

That said, there are a few IHeart-owned radio stations in smaller markets that have both talk and music schedules on at different times of the day (or week) though I don't know how successful that has been for the company or the stations involved. In Minot, ND, both KCJB (910 kHz) and KRRZ (1390 kHz) carry some talk programming during weekdays and program music overnights and on weekends. In the state's capital, Bismarck, KFYR (550 kHz) carries IHeart's talk programming weekdays and a classic hits/oldies format on weekends. Again, I don't know how well these stations are doing in their markets but I do know (at least the last time I checked) that all three of these stations continue to carry the mixed programming currently.

 

[davideduardo]

One slight correction. During the heyday of KHJ in the late 1960s and 1970s, the promos announcing the disc jockeys (usually voiced by Bill Drake himself) always stated that you were listening to "The Real Don Steele Show," "The Humble Harv Show," or whoever happened to be on the air at the time (unless they were filling in for someone else). No, it wasn't a "show" in the traditional sense like old-time radio was but it worked to reinforce the idea that the purpose of the disc jockey was to entertain the audience between records. (And, if you doubt me, there are plenty of airchecks of all of the KHJ jocks online that will reinforce what I've just stated.)

I launched my first Top 40 station in late 1964. It was modeled with the influence of WIXY, WQAM, WLS and WABC. When Drake and Jacobs launched KHJ as Top 40, after it showed major impact, I flew up to LA to monitor it.

I even recorded air checks at my motel near LAX to listen to again and again back home, nearly 4,000 miles to the south.

What was the biggest characteristic was the tight brevity and speed. We had been using DJ names for “shows” for a decade in the business, although Drake staged that better than how it had previously been done. In fact, when I interned in Mexico City the year before, we did the same thing with DJ show names on all five stations and formats. Nothing new.

The reason why we used DJ names was too personalize the listener experience. There was no Internet. Phone calls outside your own town or city had high toll charges. So the DJs were, for many people, their contact with the outside world during much of the day.

About a year after KHJ became a top 40 station, Its sister station, KFRC, in San Francisco did the same thing under program Director Tom Rounds. Again, I went to that market to listen. But I did not meet TR until decades later when I worked for him for over 20 years doing radio programming at Radio Express. It is indeed a small world.

 

[xmusicmatt]

I miss Limbaugh compared to what a lot of the talker realm is today. Every time I turn on a far right talker it's nothing but a bunch of alternate facts or the host screaming about people using pronouns or how the left are anti-American and going to cause you harm if you don't stop them.

During Covid, I heard an AM talker host spend 20 minutes ranting that new 5G cell phone towers being put up was spreading the virus.

Last I checked we survived Clinton, Obama and even Biden. The world didn't end, I am all about people sharing different views but radio hosts raging for 3 hours (and sometimes screaming for many minutes) is hard to listen.

 

[K.M. Richards]

One slight correction. During the heyday of KHJ in the late 1960s and 1970s, the promos announcing the disc jockeys (usually voiced by Bill Drake himself) always stated that you were listening to "The Real Don Steele Show," "The Humble Harv Show," or whoever happened to be on the air at the time (unless they were filling in for someone else).

IIRC, after doing that initially, Drake dropped the word "show" in his continuing goal to streamline the on air sound. "Ladies and gentlemen, The Real Don Steele!" actually had a better impact.

 

[K.M. Richards]

During Covid, I heard an AM talker host spend 20 minutes ranting that new 5G cell phone towers being put up was spreading the virus.

This is what needs fixing. The idiot-in-chief rants about "fake news" but lies like this get passed off as fact.

With this kind of mindset, it is no wonder RFK Jr. is the HHS secretary. Someday, when things get back to normal, I would love to see a FCC rule that the broadcast of non-scientifically proven information framed as "fact" is declared contrary to operating in the public interest and subject stations to fines for doing so.

While the FCC cannot dictate programming per se, framing it in this way brings it within their primary sphere if of responsibility. I bet the syndicated talk shows would get the message pretty damn quickly.

 

[Larry]

Not necessarily conservative but I’d like radio stations to air more podcasts. Doesn’t have to be live.

 

[bobdavcav]

I miss Limbaugh compared to what a lot of the talker realm is today. Every time I turn on a far right talker it's nothing but a bunch of alternate facts or the host screaming about people using pronouns or how the left are anti-American and going to cause you harm if you don't stop them.

During Covid, I heard an AM talker host spend 20 minutes ranting that new 5G cell phone towers being put up was spreading the virus.

Last I checked we survived Clinton, Obama and even Biden. The world didn't end, I am all about people sharing different views but radio hosts raging for 3 hours (and sometimes screaming for many minutes) is hard to listen.

Your post gets to the heart of why I started this topic. Right wing talk is getting more and more extreme and the demos are getting older, so why do we see so many in larger markets, and a few new launches? I've heard the ads fro Patriot Mobile and some of the others mentioned here, but they far from sell out the ad space on those stations, and are usually voiced by the host in question as part of their show.

 

[vchimpanzee]

I miss Limbaugh compared to what a lot of the talker realm is today.

I could enjoy listening to him even if I was what he would call a liberal. Until about 2015, his ideas even made sense.

 

[TheBigA]

why do we see so many in larger markets, and a few new launches?

How big is it on FM? If it's mainly on AM, there's your answer.

Where's the growth? Any exciting new hosts, or is just the same people?

 

[ted chittenden]

Your post gets to the heart of why I started this topic. Right wing talk is getting more and more extreme and the demos are getting older, so why do we see so many in larger markets, and a few new launches? I've heard the ads fro Patriot Mobile and some of the others mentioned here, but they far from sell out the ad space on those stations, and are usually voiced by the host in question as part of their show.

And the only answer I can give you is find out who is paying for it and then act against that person or group. (I'm not advocating violence; rather I'm advocating boycotts, etc.) These right-wing talk show hosts wouldn't get the time of day unless someone (or group) is paying the freight. As noted, the percentage of people who actually listen to these folks is shrinking, but, also as noted, those people who do listen are more loyal to these shows and their advertisers.

So again! The only response I can give is follow the money to its source and you will have your answer.

 

[101tm]

In my market, back in 2023 (Greenville-Spartanburg), Audacy blew up a 100kw FM from a music format to move conservative talk from a 25kw FM that covered the market just fine (that 25kw would later be sold as part of the bankruptcy, but that wasn’t known at the time of that decision). They continue to double down and invest more in to it. There are very few mainstream local advertisers on it (mainly pawn shops, wealth management, gold dealers, etc) but why would they blow up a music format for the 55+ skewing news/talk format? Even with the conservative “advertiser coalition”? This station, WYRD-FM, is generally top 3, but I’d wager much, if not most of that is 55+, or likely 65+.

Radio One recently upgraded 1110 WBT in Charlotte to FM. Another situation of a younger skewing music format being replaced with the 55+ news/talk format.

It’s notable that in many cases (save for markets like Birmingham, Raleigh, Greensboro, and New Orleans), iHeart doesn’t do this. They generally add an FM translator. What, though, is with putting such an old skewing format on powerful FM frequencies, like WYRD-FM and WBT-FM?

 

[TheBigA]

What, though, is with putting such an old skewing format on powerful FM frequencies, like WYRD-FM and WBT-FM?

I see a lot of local hosts. How would you characterize the advertising? That may be your answer.

 

[Megatron]

Conservative talk radio sells doom & gloom and likes to rage against those they disagree with the same with the few liberal talk radio as well and fearmonger as well. I wish it didn't sell or a market for it isn't going to change ever in my opinion.

 

[101tm]

I see a lot of local hosts. How would you characterize the advertising? That may be your answer.

On WYRD-FM, lots of ads for healthcare services (something called MD Weight Loss, and some kind of joint infusion therapy for painful joints at a local doctors office), timeshare guy ads, the IRS is coming after you, Optima Tax Relief, local gold dealers, retirement/investment planning, and sometimes the likes of a flooring or roofing company.

 

[K.M. Richards]

On WYRD-FM, lots of ads for healthcare services (something called MD Weight Loss, and some kind of joint infusion therapy for painful joints at a local doctors office), timeshare guy ads, the IRS is coming after you, Optima Tax Relief, local gold dealers, retirement/investment planning, and sometimes the likes of a flooring or roofing company.

A lot of those are per inquiry/direct response ads, where the spots run without direct charge and the station gets paid when someone calls the 800#. I use Timeshare Exit Hotline and Tax Doctor a lot to time out the classic American Top 40 show and to fill the local breaks in the Sunday morning public affairs programs (AURN gives stations two minutes per show adjacent to their national spots.

Tax Doctor pays $100 per sale, as an example. Hard for a station to turn down that potential revenue just for filling avails that have to be covered anyway.

 

[bmasters1981]

It’s also political neutral so both sides can enjoy.

I certainly enjoy it-- in fact, if I ever drove a car, sports would be where it is (wouldn't touch that abhorrent political stuff).