Do old people just not listen to the radio around here?

[Miguelito]

An Age Old Argument | Research Director, Inc.

Lately I’m seeing buzz in the trades about how valuable older demos are becoming. There is talk that the 25-54 demo is too narrow, and that the 55+

researchdirectorinc.com

I don't know much about the workings of markets where older-skewing formats are doing well (and have been doing well for years), so I read this article with an eye toward Philadelphia and our history of fallen Soft AC stations. For instance, I wondered whether the demise of 106.1 The Breeze was due to advertiser expectations and not the actual reality of listenership. "It's a shame," I thought, "if a good number of people with money to spend were enjoying the station, but advertisers just didn't care to reach them." If that were the case, I wondered whether the reality would eventually catch up and someone might once again launch a station for that audience.

But then I remembered that it wasn't the case here at all. I seem to recall someone saying something like The Breeze being fifteenth in 55+ in its last book. The target listeners just weren't tuning in. (In my experience, I heard The Breeze in tons of situations, but mostly with younger people, so I wondered if the station was outperforming in demos the station wasn't even targeting.)

I was left wondering what exactly happened here. I would assume older people want to listen to terrestrial radio more than younger people, if only because younger people prefer to get their music from tech the older people don't use/aren't aware of/don't want to learn. But right here in Philadelphia, The Breeze offered that demographic a perfectly fine option, and it (arguably) stuck around long enough to catch on...yet they didn't bite.

So, I walked away from this article wondering if it's simply hogwash to think 55+ is a sellable demo. Do you think that's truly the case? Or is there something specific to this particular market?

Potentially interesting personal disclaimer: I'm now 52 years old (yikes), and I thought The Breeze sounded great. When I was in a situation to utilize terrestrial radio, it was consistently the first button I pressed. In a few years, when I officially join the Old Bones demographic, that would surely still have been the case!

 

[Larry]

Interesting post. I’m in my early 60s ( also yikes) and there isn’t a radio station in Philly I like their music enough to listen to for any extended period of time (except WMGK’s HD-2 oldies station). If i want to listen to music on the radio i stream something like METV-FM. Almost all of my time listening to local radio is either KYW or WHYY.

 

[TheBigA]

So, I walked away from this article wondering if it's simply hogwash to think 55+ is a sellable demo. Do you think that's truly the case? Or is there something specific to this particular market?

Great topic! Here's my view: I agree that 55+ is a sellable demo. The problem is they're a harder group to sell. Advertisers believe music radio is not the most effective way to sell to that demo. Talk and spoken word radio is. So advertisers shy away from older skewing music formats (soft AC) and prefer news and talk. They also spend a large portion of their budget on other media, such as TV, because they feel it's more effective with the 55+ demo.

 

[b-turner]

The general thinking is it takes more money to convert a 55+ to a customer than it does a younger demo. This is why few clienrs tell the ad agency to buy stations that target 55+. Talk radio seems to be an exception among some advertisers. See the post above. I think 55+ is a sellable demographic.

 

[TheBigA]

Here's something else to consider: Radio companies are transitioning from broadcasting to streaming. Streaming music is very expensive, because of additional royalties. There are also additional regulations involved in streaming music. Whereas, news, talk, and spoken word content is usually owned by the radio companies. They control how its used. They can repackage it multiple times in multiple ways, and make money with each package. So selling something they own is better than selling something they don't, which is music. This is why you're seeing Audacy convert music FMs to sports talk in places like Chicago, Miami, and Buffalo.

 

[exdjted]

The problem I see is that consultants and other so-called experts seem to think that older means ancient. I'm 63, so I love Rock and Top 40 from 1977 to 1990. Actually my favorite is Active Rock (ain't dead yet!). But when you say older demo, their mind immediately jumps to Elvis, The Beatles and doo-wop. Sorry, I hate that crap. Never been to Graceland. Don't see the appeal of Elvis. Stop shoving it down my throat. Also, stop with the news-talk and sports.

Look. I'm pursuing a group in a small market that has a large retirement population. Guess what they've been asking me to program the most? Adult Hits. Hot Country. Hot AC. Know what no one has asked for? 50s and 60s Oldies. Most of them want something fun to listen to after pickleball. Maybe we should stop listening to the so-called expert consultants in their 30s and start asking, I don't know, YOUR TARGET AUDIENCE what THEY want?

Before anyone gets on to me about Elvis, I get he was popular BACK in the day. I never cared for any of his songs. Sue me.

 

[radiofan2023]

The problem I see is that consultants and other so-called experts seem to think that older means ancient. I'm 63, so I love Rock and Top 40 from 1977 to 1990. Actually my favorite is Active Rock (ain't dead yet!). But when you say older demo, their mind immediately jumps to Elvis, The Beatles and doo-wop. Sorry, I hate that crap. Never been to Graceland. Don't see the appeal of Elvis. Stop shoving it down my throat. Also, stop with the news-talk and sports.

Look. I'm pursuing a group in a small market that has a large retirement population. Guess what they've been asking me to program the most? Adult Hits. Hot Country. Hot AC. Know what no one has asked for? 50s and 60s Oldies. Most of them want something fun to listen to after pickleball. Maybe we should stop listening to the so-called expert consultants in their 30s and start asking, I don't know, YOUR TARGET AUDIENCE what THEY want?

Before anyone gets on to me about Elvis, I get he was popular BACK in the day. I never cared for any of his songs. Sue me.

Which successful 30 year old consultant is shoving Elvis, The Beatles and doo-wop down anyone’s throat in the year 2026?

Also I’m not much of an Elvis fan either, and I’m in my 40’s. “If I Can Dream”, “Moody Blue” and “Way Down” are the only songs of his I like.

 

[landtuna]

Before anyone gets on to me about Elvis, I get he was popular BACK in the day. I never cared for any of his songs. Sue me.

Elvis had a beautiful voice but so did others of his era. The main reason he became popular is because he was undeniably handsome and he brought something new to the music scene - both his "whiteification" of Black music and his very physical way of performing. Teens are naturally rebellious and they loved it. The more some people criticized Elvis the more popular he became with teens and young adults.

As with virtually all other artists, I liked some of his stuff and disliked others.

 

[TheBigA]

start asking, I don't know, YOUR TARGET AUDIENCE what THEY want?

Easy to do in a small market. Harder to do in a major. Keep in mind that the audience is not radio's clients. Advertisers are. We ask the advertisers what THEY want. They're the ones paying. The audience can pay for whatever music they want to hear. They don't need us for that. We're not in the music business. We're in the content business. We own news, talk, and sports. Not music. If we happen to play what they want, they're satisfied.

 

[exdjted]

Sorry. I live and work in a small market. I ask both advertisers and listeners what they want. I know we're in a content business. I want to fill the space between news, talk and sports with something worth listening to. Maybe other owners don't. I'm the guy who finishes the morning show and heads out to sell, and finishes the day doing play-by-play. So sorry that small markets are the antithesis of modern entertainment. If I'm paying 6 figures of my hard-earned money to buy something, I want it to be something I'd actually listen to myself.

Just because people age out of a particular demo, it doesn't mean their tastes change. If they like Def Leppard and Van Halen today, chances are they'll still like them 10 and 20 years from now. I try to ask both advertisers and listeners what we do right and what we do wrong. Today's Classic Hits format will be Oldies to future programmers. This is what works for me.

 

[Mediafrog+]

Keep in mind that the audience is not radio's clients. Advertisers are. We ask the advertisers what THEY want. They're the ones paying.

The weird thing about broadcasting is that the product it directly produces (programming) is different from the product it actually sells (the attention of an audience.)

It’s sort of like operating a henhouse, but instead of selling eggs, you sell the fact that it attracts foxes to fox hunters.

 

[AbrahamJSimpson]

Yup. Unlike many businesses that can acquire the products to sell wholesale, media of all forms needs to compete to get the product in the door.

And sometimes the dynamics from large to small market are different. Not better, not worse, just intrinsically different.

As for the Breeze, and its counterparts, it was mostly a DOA flavor of the month format. Yes, it has worked well enough in the Bay Area, but Philly was hardly the only place the Breeze was a bust.

 

[PTBoardOp93]

So, I walked away from this article wondering if it's simply hogwash to think 55+ is a sellable demo. Do you think that's truly the case? Or is there something specific to this particular market?

55+ is definitely a sellable demographic.

But Research Director is mostly wrong in this line:

Advertisers care about one thing—paying customers. It doesn’t matter if they are 28 or 58.

Part of the reason the 25-54 demo is so powerful to advertisers is because that is when parents have children in the house. That means they buy a lot more stuff, in mundane categories and n once-in-a-lifetime categories. More luncheon meat, more t-shirts, more baseball lessons, more shampoo, more family photos, and more trips to Disneyland.
And because they have kids and all the activities associated, they might be less likely to spend hours reading about which full-sized SUV to buy, and just buy the Chevy Tahoe because it has a $4500 rebate now through March 12th.

A 58 year old probably has a household size of 2 or fewer. 10-15% of 58 year olds are retired or semi-retired.
So while it is a sellable demographic, it is undoubtedly not as valuable to an advertiser than someone who is 10 or 20 years younger.

 

[anwar]

I'm in my late 60's and rarely listen to the radio anymore. KYW, WMGK, WBEN and WOGL are the only ones I occasionally listen to. I mostly listen to Sirius/XM where I can hear the 60's, 70's and 80's music with no commercial interruptions. Also some classical and smooth jazz are always available unlike Philly radio.

 

[anwar]

I forgot to mention WHYY. They have some excellent international news coverage from NPR and the BBC.

 

[radiophiler]

Regarding parents and children and number of people in a household:

• U.S. Births by Age Group (2021-2023 Average):
  • Under 20: 4.0%
  • 20–29: 45.1%
  • 30–39: 47.0%
  • 40 and older: 3.9%
    And
  • In the U.S., roughly 90% of young adults move out of their parents' home at least once by age 27, with a median age of around 19–20 years old. However, this distribution is shifting, with over half of 18-24 year olds (57.1%) and about 22% of 25-29 year olds living at home as of 2023.

Parents in their upper 30s are more likely to have a child these days than decades ago. Also, children (even though they may be considered "young adults") are more likely to live with their parents until a slightly older age than decades ago. Therefore, maybe it's reasonable these days to extend 25-54 to 25-59 or 25-64?

 

[PTBoardOp93]

Parents in their upper 30s are more likely to have a child these days than decades ago. Also, children (even though they may be considered "young adults") are more likely to live with their parents until a slightly older age than decades ago. Therefore, maybe it's reasonable these days to extend 25-54 to 25-59 or 25-64?

Potentially in the future. But today's ad buyers are interested in today's demographics, and the vast majority of households have no children in the house by the time the householder is 55.
In 2007, the year today's high school graduates were born, the median mother gave birth to her first child at age 25, which had not changed much from the 1980s. And in 2007, 89% of children were born to mothers under age 35, with 98% under age 40.

Young adults living with their parents is a different thing. It's more like having two households in one dwelling than it is like having young children. At least as a generalization.

 

[cyber]

A friend told me there was a station in Hatboro(?) that catered to an older demo. They specialize in Big Band sounds of the early 20th century. I haven't checked it out since I'm more into Classic Rock and Jazz. If nothing else it sounds like an interesting idea...maybe not profitable but it caters to a vanishing audience.

 

[CTListener]

Young adults living with their parents is a different thing. It's more like having two households in one dwelling than it is like having young children. At least as a generalization.

"Young adults living with their parents" as a category hinders attractiveness to advertisers regardless of the age of those adults. They're thought of as underemployed at best, slackers at worst, often with a cynical attitude toward advertising. That stereotype may fade given the ever-escalating cost of housing, including rents. But the fact remains that, by and large, adults still living with mom and dad will still be a less lucrative demographic to chase than homeowners and condo dwellers.

 

[davideduardo]

"Young adults living with their parents" as a category hinders attractiveness to advertisers regardless of the age of those adults. They're thought of as underemployed at best, slackers at worst, often with a cynical attitude toward advertising. That stereotype may fade given the ever-escalating cost of housing, including rents. But the fact remains that, by and large, adults still living with mom and dad will still be a less lucrative demographic to chase than homeowners and condo dwellers.

That is an interesting perspective. However, the available data, mostly Nielsen, does not identify as a stratification variable "adults still living with mom and dad". In most cases, ad buyers just look at raw numbers, not lifestyles.