CBS Radio News Closure: Effects on KCBS and San Francisco

[davideduardo]

It's no wonder that radio, and AM in particular, is in trouble. I mean, if ad agencies are ignoring where a possible plurality, if not majority, of a radio station's audience is actually located...

This has been the way agencies have worked... based on market-by-market buys... for over four or five decades.

(Very few AMs today even cover their home market adequately day and night... there are so few cases where there is significant out of market audience that it is not worth anyone's time to look for exceptions.

Few stations buy ratings in markets outside their home market. Lots of money, little or no revenue. They don't buy those out of market ratings because in so very, very few cases would that expenditure create added revenue.

And agencies buy the largest markets first. Many buys only cover the top 25, 30, 40 or 50 markets. They don't care about the smallish remainder of the population not reached in the remaining markets.

In very few cases does a station in one market have more listening in a nearby one than in their home market. Offhand, I can not think of any...

And this is not an issue created or controlled by radio. Ad agencies use "markets" as the basis for campaigns because their clients use market and distribution areas to evaluate, promote and generate sales. The whole advantage of radio historically has been its localism, which means the ability to focus marketing campaigns very specifically by market.

And most local direct accounts have no interest in adjacent markets. A car dealer cares about people within a reasonable driving distance. A supermarket or health club focus even closer to home of their potential customers.

Real case: Nearly none of the LA stations buy the ratings for the next-door Riverside-San Bernardino market because agencies will buy the local stations at much lower rates than trying to reach local residents via stations that are much more expensive and volatile in ratings.

 

[Mark Roberts]

The kind of news that is contained in the "give us 20 minutes and we'll give you the world" is different from in-depth journalism.

Certainly, but the same ethical considerations apply.

In fact, to me it is closer to entertainment than journalism.

People can make of it what they will. My grandmother loved listening to WBBM at night (she was in northern Missouri) once it went all-news, in part to stay informed and in part to hear another voice in the night. She was a big news consumer, to be sure.

I became part of Buenos Aires, Argentina's, most listened to talk station in 1999. It had long newscasts in AM and PM, and the writing staff and reporters numbered over 40. The "on the air" roundtable for 6 AM to 9 AM had 7 people on mike, including a staff comedian who wrote short skits about events of the day. Extremely deep verification of stories was required, and the station scooped newspapers and the other 10 or so news talk stations in the market. The attention to detail was so great that the AM and PM newscasts were followed by a staff meeting to analyze what could be done better. There was very little crime, accident and fire coverage... this was about "the fate of the nation" and we all felt we were responsible for doing a very good job of covering all the news.

What type of audience did it appeal to? I have the impression, from my own studies and from Argentines I have known (including one of my former bosses) that Argentine society is rather stratified. It sounds like your station filled a niche that, in the present United States, is filled by public radio, appealing to an audience with higher levels of education and more wealth compared to others.

 

[KilowattKat]

I haven’t listened to iHeart-owned AM 910 and 960 lately to know if they already run their in-house TOH on those stations. If not, could KCBS start running them, absent Audacy launching their own?

960 KNEW uses the iHeart 24/7 news.
910 KKSF has the news updates from BIN.

 

[davideduardo]

What type of audience did it appeal to? I have the impression, from my own studies and from Argentines I have known (including one of my former bosses) that Argentine society is rather stratified. }

The station had close to a 48 share in AM listening (Argentina has separate AM and FM ratings) and it beat all but one FM enormously.

Argentina, before Perón, had one of the top 10 world economies. It still is very significant, based on the fact that agriculture is such a big part of the economy and it exports everything from grain and wine to the worlds best beef.

It still has a very similar local economy to that of the U.S. There is an upper class of business people and professionals (and a soccer star or two), a huge middle class working in a bloated government along with all the things like retail, insurance, health care, automotive and the like. And then there are total blue collar people, the minority, who do those things we identify with that segment like roadwork, sanitation and such.

It sounds like your station filled a niche that, in the present United States, is filled by public radio, appealing to an audience with higher levels of education and more wealth compared to others.

The most common place to hear that station, Radio 10 (100,000 watts on 710 AM) was in taxis! It was very much what those that did not have the time to buy one of the two big daily papers (each with over a million circulation back then) would listen to over breakfast, in places like factories and workshops, etc. (Remember, Latin America does not have the same "drive time" concept as the U.S. as so many use public transportation.)

Argentina has vastly superior public education to that in the U.S. Awareness of the world, the national situation and basic economics is strong, and there is a huge sense of "nationality" that goes beyond political parties.

That is why there are about ten 50,000 watt or over AM talk stations, all of which do fairly well, just in Buenos Aires.

 

[ted chittenden]

Deleted.
And agencies buy the largest markets first. Many buys only cover the top 25, 30, 40 or 50 markets. They don't care about the smallish remainder of the population not reached in the remaining markets.

In very few cases does a station in one market

 

[Gregg.]

Gosh, I can't understand why folks are suggesting changing the call letters of KCBS just because the CBS Radio Network is going away. KCBS has been All-News since 1968. There's no need to introduce new call letters. If the Audacy stations make a deal to start running ABC News or another service at the top of the hour, I don't think any of KCBS's listeners will be confused. ABC is a very good radio network with a large TV news department behind it, just like CBS.

WABC and KABC stopped running ABC Radio News a few years after ABC/Disney sold its radio stations to Cumulus. When WABC and KABC began airimg Westwood One News, listeners took it in stride if they even knew.

About ten years ago, WTOP, the nation's top billing station and highest-rated All-News station (currently in double digits), switched from CBS hourly news to ABC for a few years, then went back to CBS. I'm guessing it may return to ABC in May. It hasn't hurt that station.

Maybe Audacy will work out a deal with ABC News to provide its All-News and News/Talk stations with a "white label" version. All of the network's other affiliates hear the ABC News sounder but perhaps Audacy stations would get a no-sounder, no-identifier national newscast. Let's remember, the 24/7 News service from iHeart is white label and before that, Westwood One News was also white label. The anchors don't say iHeart or 24/7 or Westwood One.

Again, there's no need to change the call letters that have been associated with San Francisco All-News for 58 years. The KCBS branding should stay regardless of what happens at the top of the hour in May, whether years from now Audacy may have to give up the KCBS call sign or what the FM's real call sign is.

 

[TheBigA]

WTOP, the nation's top billing station and top rated All-News station, has switched from CBS hourly news to ABC for a few years, then back to CBS. I'm guessing it may return to ABC in May.

The reason why was because CBS flipped one of its DC stations to all-news and wanted CBS News Radio for it's owned station. When it failed, the affiliation went back to WTOP.

But your examples of KABC and WABC are good ones. The discussion of changing call letters is a silly one.

Maybe Audacy will work out a deal with ABC News to provide them with a "white label" version.

It's not necessary, since KCBS is already an affiliate of AP Radio. The great thing about AP is it requires no inventory. All the others do.

 

[Mark Roberts]

Gosh, I can't understand why folks are suggesting changing the call letters of KCBS just because the CBS Radio Network is going away. KCBS has been All-News since 1968. There's no need to introduce new call letters. If the Audacy stations make a deal to start running ABC News or another service at the top of the hour, I don't think any of KCBS's listeners will be confused. ABC is a very good radio network with a large TV news department behind it, just like CBS.

{...}

Again, there's no need to change the call letters that have been associated with San Francisco All-News for 58 years. The KCBS branding should stay regardless of what happens at the top of the hour in May, whether years from now Audacy may have to give up the KCBS call sign or what the FM's real call sign is.

But your examples of KABC and WABC are good ones. The discussion of changing call letters is a silly one.

If you haven't lived in the Bay Area, you're not likely to know what a powerful brand the KCBS call letters have been. KCBS has leaned into it. It's in every reporter lockout, for example. So it's not an entirely silly discussion. But there are more immediate and important matters for KCBS to attend to in the wake of the pending closure of CBS News Radio.

I suspect call letters come up as a topic of discussion in RD time and time again because it's something to talk about. Radio used to be a more dynamic business, with ownership changes and format changes happening more often than they do now. So there used to be more to talk about...especially things that aren't depressing to consider.

 

[TheBigA]

If you haven't lived in the Bay Area, you're not likely to know what a powerful brand the KCBS call letters have been. KCBS has leaned into it.

I agree. That's why I said changing call letters now is silly. The brand is the brand. I felt the same way when Dunkin' Donuts dropped the "donuts" from its name. It doesn't matter that they also make sandwiches. People still call it Dunkin' Donuts regardless of what the sign says. The people identify the brand of KCBS with the overall package, not the 5 minutes at the top of the hour.

 

[michael hagerty]

If you haven't lived in the Bay Area, you're not likely to know what a powerful brand the KCBS call letters have been. KCBS has leaned into it. It's in every reporter lockout, for example. So it's not an entirely silly discussion. But there are more immediate and important matters for KCBS to attend to in the wake of the pending closure of CBS News Radio.

I suspect call letters come up as a topic of discussion in RD time and time again because it's something to talk about. Radio used to be a more dynamic business, with ownership changes and format changes happening more often than they do now. So there used to be more to talk about...especially things that aren't depressing to consider.

Again---I brought it up, and for a very specific reason. If---and ONLY if:


1-There's too big an audience disconnect with KCBS having 100% less CBS.

2-Audacy wants to distance its brand from Bari Weiss' devaluation and destruction of CBS News' image and reputation.


I absolutely agree with your priorities, Mark, but as I said, IF they were going to do it, it would be best done simultaneously rather than "the latest in what appear to be a series of changes".

And IF they were to do it, it isn't anything that would distract from the priorities that you've outlined. They could be accomplished on parallel tracks.

 

[Mark Roberts]

And IF they were to do it, it isn't anything that would distract from the priorities that you've outlined. They could be accomplished on parallel tracks.

Yes, absolutely. I just happen to be more interested in how they're going to replace the content. The hard part there is execution. The hard part with a call-letter change is deciding to do it. If they decide to do that, then KFRC is a natural choice.

 

[TheBigA]

I just happen to be more interested in how they're going to replace the content. The hard part there is execution.

As we've said, they already have alternatives for the content. The obvious one is AP, which is their primary source for national & international news on the website.

But another thing you may not know is that a lot of press conferences and media events, previously covered in person by reporters, are now provided on the internet. I attended such a press conference on Friday. Previously, I would have attended in person. This year, I watched it on YouTube, recorded it, and did wrap-around coverage using the material that was provided. I got the same material I would have received if I had attended, but without the travel. The white house and pentagon provide similar feeds. A lot of this grew out of the pandemic.

 

[Weiserguy]

Reading all of these various thoughts and opinions, it struck me that the Audacy stations might have a simple solution to this problem, if CBS plays along. As a condition for not suing CBS for breach, Audacy & CBS agree that Audacy can continue using the soon-to-be-obsoleted TOH bong and network news sounder over their own white label version of AP news. AP produces the 3 (or 4) minute newscast without any commercial cutout, all the Audacy stations carry it and Audacy pays AP a bulk rate for the product. The stations now have another couple of minutes of inventory to sell. Possible a win-win, and CBS sure won't need that sounder any more.

If it's too problematic to segue from CBS News using their current sounder to it being on top of an AP (or Brand X) newscast as of May 22, go into the past a generation or two (or three) of CBS News sounders and use an older one. Nobody but us would even notice the difference.

 

[KilowattKat]

KCBS/KFRC continues to trend upward with a 8.8 share in the latest PPM.

There's no reason to change the calls, and they will also do just fine without a CBS affiliation.

 

[TheBigA]

Audacy & CBS agree that Audacy can continue using the soon-to-be-obsoleted TOH bong and network news sounder over their own white label version of AP news. AP produces the 3 (or 4) minute newscast without any commercial cutout,

So you're saying that CBS would allow its sounder to be used for someone else's news? Isn't that fraud?

Also, there are no commercials or cutouts in AP newscasts.

Why use someone else's talent to host newscasts? Isn't that what KCBS people do?

I understand using AP's actualities. But I don't see any value to using their anchor.

 

[michael hagerty]

Reading all of these various thoughts and opinions, it struck me that the Audacy stations might have a simple solution to this problem, if CBS plays along. As a condition for not suing CBS for breach, Audacy & CBS agree that Audacy can continue using the soon-to-be-obsoleted TOH bong and network news sounder over their own white label version of AP news. AP produces the 3 (or 4) minute newscast without any commercial cutout, all the Audacy stations carry it and Audacy pays AP a bulk rate for the product. The stations now have another couple of minutes of inventory to sell. Possible a win-win, and CBS sure won't need that sounder any more.

If it's too problematic to segue from CBS News using their current sounder to it being on top of an AP (or Brand X) newscast as of May 22, go into the past a generation or two (or three) of CBS News sounders and use an older one. Nobody but us would even notice the difference.

I'm certain there's no breach to threaten to sue over. They gave just a shade over 60 days' notice. I would bet lunch that was intentional and 60 days is the notification window in the affiliation contracts.

 

[Weiserguy]

I'm certain there's no breach to threaten to sue over. They gave just a shade over 60 days' notice. I would bet lunch that was intentional and 60 days is the notification window in the affiliation contracts.

Mike, 60 days is legally required by the federal WARN Act. It's been around for at least (...converting from hexadecimal...) 25 years, when I myself last received one. (Back in happier times when the smoke was still wafting up from Ground Zero...)

There may also be a 60 day provision in the affiliation agreements, but I suspect Audacy would at least have a case to be made that the premature termination of their various affiliation agreements has or will damage their businesses. It's up to a court (and possibly a jury, if it gets that far) whether they buy the argument. I'm just saying it costs Larry & David next to nothing to give/sell/license the sounder to dispossessed affiliates in consideration of not paying a Manhattan law firm to test this theory.

That could also have a sunset date a year or two down the road, once this turmoil is far in the rear view mirror of the dispossessed stations, at which point the stations could revert to using the normal sounders at the TOH.

 

[TheBigA]

I suspect Audacy would at least have a case to be made that the premature termination of their various affiliation agreements has or will damage their businesses.

Not just affiliation agreement. Audacy's Infinity Networks had been designated the distributor of CBS News Radio in October. That required hiring sales & marketing staff and building infrastructure that is now useless.

CBS News Radio Moves Distribution to Audacy's Infinity Networks

“By bringing together a respected brand like CBS News Radio under the Infinity Networks umbrella, we’re creating a scalable platform that enhances the reach and impact of great local and national content for our advertising partners."

barrettmedia.com

“This is a major step forward for Infinity Networks and for our partners across the industry,” said Audacy Chief Revenue Officer Bob Philips. “By bringing together a respected brand like CBS News Radio under the Infinity Networks umbrella, we’re creating a scalable platform that enhances the reach and impact of great local and national content for our advertising partners.

 

[KilowattKat]

Listeners to KCBS follow the news, so they are certainly aware of the CBS radio shutdown. As well as hearing on air announcements from mgmt regarding this. It's not going to come as any shock or surprise for most listeners when the change happens May 23.

I think its telling that in one of the on air announcements, it was mentioned that they have the resources to provide their own world and national news to listeners.

What I'm looking forward to hearing is how CBS handles the very last TOH newscast. I really think they should provide affiliates with a one hour goodbye special, that can be aired just before that last newscast. Will CBS radio acknowledge it's 99 year history? It would be sad if they didn't.

 

[El Zilcho]

Will CBS radio acknowledge it's 99 year history? It would be sad if they didn't.

They should but I wouldn’t be surprised if they don’t. KGO had a long storied history but no retrospective of their eight-decade history ran when it flipped to sports gambling talk in 2022 — just Mark Thompson forced to end his own show 15 minutes in and be the last live and local voice heard there to unceremoniously end the news-talk era.